Are these before and after photos real??

[texasmk4]

you're looking GOOD if its really you

[JSola]

........maybe im wrong, my apologies. you cant get that mad at me trying to protect our forum though. If there's nothing being sold well then..........alright.

[RoaringMad Mac]

I think Ronnie is about to dispell some of this moush.

[Ronnie Rowland]

I edited my first post and put up some face pictures..I'll post some more if there's any doubts!

[SMCengineer]

I popped my tendon doing rest-pause training (never again)!!!

Damnit, I just got into rest-pause training.

[timtim]

bros...i have been working with ronnie for the first round of slingshot and I have to admit that I originally thought it was hype but i decided to give it a whirl.

My gains: 185 lbs to 225 lbs at end of cruise phase.
Crazy strength gains - check my Slingshot Log in the workout forum.

your claiming to have gained 40 pounds in how long? do you honestly think anyone with real training experience would believe a 40 pound weight gain in even a year for a newbie lifter and your claiming this in a matter of weeks/months.

no way. the program might be great but that is bullsh@t. and if its 40 pounds of some muscle and a good amount of fat who cares then, anyone can get fat. no experienced lifter is going to miraculously jump in weight like that. coming from someone with alot of experience, i would find it remarkably more interesting to hear someone say "ive been training 5 or 6 years now seriously and this new program added 7 pounds of muscle in 16 weeks". that is interesting. 40 pounds, sounds like bullsh@t because it probably is.

[Ronnie Rowland]

your claiming to have gained 40 pounds in how long? do you honestly think anyone with real training experience would believe a 40 pound weight gain in even a year for a newbie lifter and your claiming this in a matter of weeks/months.

no way. the program might be great but that is bullsh@t. and if its 40 pounds of some muscle and a good amount of fat who cares then, anyone can get fat. no experienced lifter is going to miraculously jump in weight like that. coming from someone with alot of experience, i would find it remarkably more interesting to hear someone say "ive been training 5 or 6 years now seriously and this new program added 7 pounds of muscle in 16 weeks". that is interesting. 40 pounds, sounds like bullsh@t because it probably is.

Actually, moush has a very slow metabolism and some of the weight gain was water. In addition, he lost more in the anabolic prime than I wanted him to. With his metabolism, he could have gained even more in an 8 week period. It's impossible to gain that much muscle in 2 months but he did gain the weight. I've been with him from the start and he's telling the truth! This time around he will take in much slower. His body was no use to this form of training and diet.

[Ronnie Rowland]

I agree that there seems to be a marketing style approach to this, but I have looked over it in detail and I haven't seen anywhere where they are trying to sell you anything. The entire training philosophy is spelled out for us in detail, free of charge. I could be wrong but it looks to me like he has found something that works in most cases and is excited to share it with others. Just my 2 cents.

You are a very smart guy!

[Ajc330]

........maybe im wrong, my apologies. you cant get that mad at me trying to protect our forum though. If there's nothing being sold well then..........alright.

you just came here a month ago lol like this is your home.. i haven't been here long either and you should bow down to this man for actually taking the time to help people like you

[moush]

your claiming to have gained 40 pounds in how long? do you honestly think anyone with real training experience would believe a 40 pound weight gain in even a year for a newbie lifter and your claiming this in a matter of weeks/months.

no way. the program might be great but that is bullsh@t. and if its 40 pounds of some muscle and a good amount of fat who cares then, anyone can get fat. no experienced lifter is going to miraculously jump in weight like that. coming from someone with alot of experience, i would find it remarkably more interesting to hear someone say "ive been training 5 or 6 years now seriously and this new program added 7 pounds of muscle in 16 weeks". that is interesting. 40 pounds, sounds like bullsh@t because it probably is.

bro who are you to say its bs? I really did gain that much weight and yes it was water weight as well but still weight gain. All in all its almost the end of week 2 of the anabolic prime round 2 and im down to about 215 lbs

[Tenmoney]

coming from someone with alot of experience, i would find it remarkably more interesting to hear someone say "ive been training 5 or 6 years now seriously and this new program added 7 pounds of muscle in 16 weeks". that is interesting. 40 pounds, sounds like bullsh@t because it probably is.

I have been training seriously for 3 years (did my first amateur show this past Aug.). I know it's not the 5-6 years you were looking for, but I hope it it's enough. I'm finishing up my first cycle of STS this week, and I can say that I have seen my best results with STS. If you want, check out my STS log. I have blasted through plateaus that have plagued me for 6 months. People have been commenting on how I'm looking bigger than ever before. I have kept my BF down to about 12% the whole time and I have put on about 8lbs of muscle, in 8 weeks. And before anyone wants to jump to conclusions, I have been supplementing nothing but protein and creatine/simple carbs. Aside from back pain from squats (which was here long before I started STS) I have never felt better. Not only am I stronger than I have ever been, but this is also the healthiest/most injury free I've ever been.

To evreyone else:

Ronnie has been a tremendous help all along the way. He never asks for anything in return. He is a true "coach"/trainer. I have coached for 11 years and if there is one thing that I've learned about other coaches; A true coach/trainer gets his rewards from seeing those that he/she works with succeed. I would have to agree w/ Moush, before you (and by you, I mean anyone) start to talk crap about Ronnie or STS, give it a try. Really give it a try. If at that point it you find fault w/ it, then I know Ronnie would love to hear your feedback so that he can make whatever adjustments may be necessary. I'm sorry, but anyone wants to talk mess about STS (or anything for that matter) before doing any kind of research on their own is incredibly myopic and you would do well to keep your unfounded opinions to yourself.



The only shady thing Ronnie has ever done to me is totally steal my argument for STS in Post #22 of this thread. lol. It was a good one I thought, I don't mind you using it.

[thetank]

i understand why the initial contraversy. it sounded like a sales pitch and i understand why. its not every day you meet a jacked up dude willing to hand out advice for free that people pay in spades for on the internet, let alone be so enthused about it.
but everything aside, slingshot training guru, you have made a crazy transformation, and are lookin freakish. nice job man, keep kickin ass.
peace
tank

[Garnelek]

Having read the STS program i found it very well standing.
1.We all now that as a bbr u have to go through these 3 faces in order to avoid hitting a plat,year long.
2.5 day split is the absolute best
3.I have used the dieting and then back to normall many times and found it really effective
4.I don't see anything 4 sale
That said i think i ll give a shot with the slingshot.

[RoaringMad Mac]

Wel I am glad that is starting to get cleared up.

[stacked566]

heyyyy its mac!!! good to see you here buddy

[RoaringMad Mac]

LOL, Me and you need to talk buddy. LOL

[jackjackson]

Nice,

[Ronnie Rowland]

i understand why the initial contraversy. it sounded like a sales pitch and i understand why. its not every day you meet a jacked up dude willing to hand out advice for free that people pay in spades for on the internet, let alone be so enthused about it.
but everything aside, slingshot training guru, you have made a crazy transformation, and are lookin freakish. nice job man, keep kickin ass.
peace
tank

Thanks tank! And if that's your picture in the avatar, the name fits you well.

[Dog-Slime]

Looking good bro. Gonna read up on this slingshot training right now.

[UberSteroids]

I have been using the STS training. It is a very good system IMO.
My gains were decent, jumped from 239-242 up to current 252-254 lbs.
Took me about two months. Of course I did gain little fat I am sure, plus extra water weight, but it is the most RAPID weight gain I've ever experienced in my short four year lifting exeperience.

I am really glad Guru gave it out to the public, all nicely explained and broken down to every little detail.

Especially for people like myself, with very little experience and still trying to find my perfect program, well the Slinghot was a HUGE help, saved me so much time and energy. Thats for sure.

I am still tweaking the STS a bit as I get better results from training each body part twice a week.

Guru has been helping me with this as well.

About the whole selling idea, well he never asked for a $1.

I can understand it though, at first I was suprized too, why would ANYONE spend so much time and energy posting, explaining, reviewing and writing PMs for nothing in return.

Definitely something UNUSUAL to do.

For guys that still don't have their workout system figured out, I think it is a very good idea to try this one out, and tweak it as needed.

Thanks a lot fellas.

[UberSteroids]

Just curious, do you get paid or get perks for promoting this training program?

BINO!! Looking great man. Holyyyy....

[timtim]

bro who are you to say its bs? I really did gain that much weight and yes it was water weight as well but still weight gain. All in all its almost the end of week 2 of the anabolic prime round 2 and im down to about 215 lbs

i say its bs because that kind of claim (which is typical internet banter) is impossible even with a large amount of anabolics. muscle tissue doesnt just grow over night. thats my bs claim and im right about that.

as for the program, i have read it and a few of the logs too. im always open to new training systems. it sounds great. i dont dog training systems that are legit. i only dog bullsh@t claims. you cleared up the air as did sling shot. i would hate to see a great system fall victim to the bs internet claim saga that follows new programs claiming miraculous results over night.

to tenmoney:
your post i would believe completely. 8 weeks, 12 or so pounds with fat and water taken into account, completely doable. if even 5 of that is lean tissue that is a ton (in my opinion) in such a short period. good for you.

[SdiZZle]

Yo Guru, I really want to give this system a shot, did you see my post at the end of your sticky in the workouts forum? This makes a ton of sence to me and I would love a "Guru" to tap into for advice!

[SdiZZle]

heres a copy of that post

Ok Guru-

Everything here seems to make a lot of sence. I ran my first cycle of AAS and my last shot is this week. I would really like to implement your training program, but I don't know if I have the money to stay on AAS as you say "enhanced" builders should so...

after my last shot should I start the cruise phase, then transition into the anabolic prime? Should I stay with the two weeks recommended for each or stretch them out a little to cover my PCT and have my hormone levels more stable before I hit the anabloic blast? I ran 550mg Test C for a 12 week cycle and I am using Nolva/Clomid/Relacore/Myogenx pct to get my system back up and running.

I am excited to give this program a try- It seems like most of the exercises could be done in about an hour or maybe even a little less. That sounds way better then the 1 1/2 to 2 hours I'm in the gym trying to "slam" my muscles.

Work smarter not harder I guess.

Here I go - First Cycle, test only
^^^^
There is a link to my cycle log for all of my info. You are the man GURU.

[Tenmoney]

to tenmoney:
your post i would believe completely. 8 weeks, 12 or so pounds with fat and water taken into account, completely doable. if even 5 of that is lean tissue that is a ton (in my opinion) in such a short period. good for you.

Thanks man, I appreciate it. I hope you didn't take my post as a blast at you. I've seen a lot of people dog out STS and Ronnie the past few months and had to put in my 2 cents. Ronnie really does go WAY out of his way to help anyone who asks for it, myself being one of them. I guess it really is true, no good deed goes unpunished. lol.

[Ronnie Rowland]

heres a copy of that post

Ok Guru-

Everything here seems to make a lot of sence. I ran my first cycle of AAS and my last shot is this week. I would really like to implement your training program, but I don't know if I have the money to stay on AAS as you say "enhanced" builders should so...

after my last shot should I start the cruise phase, then transition into the anabolic prime? Should I stay with the two weeks recommended for each or stretch them out a little to cover my PCT and have my hormone levels more stable before I hit the anabloic blast? I ran 550mg Test C for a 12 week cycle and I am using Nolva/Clomid/Relacore/Myogenx pct to get my system back up and running.

I am excited to give this program a try- It seems like most of the exercises could be done in about an hour or maybe even a little less. That sounds way better then the 1 1/2 to 2 hours I'm in the gym trying to "slam" my muscles.

Work smarter not harder I guess.

Here I go - First Cycle, test only
^^^^
There is a link to my cycle log for all of my info. You are the man GURU.

Good to hear SdiZZle, I'll go check it out and provide you with a solution tommorow in the STS thread!

[Ronnie Rowland]

Thanks man, I appreciate it. I hope you didn't take my post as a blast at you. I've seen a lot of people dog out STS and Ronnie the past few months and had to put in my 2 cents. Ronnie really does go WAY out of his way to help anyone who asks for it, myself being one of them. I guess it really is true, no good deed goes unpunished. lol.

Tenmoney, you are correct. It was brought to my attention there's a little click (not anyone on this board) that is upset with me for handing out free information on this board and not deleting a particular thread I made in the workout section. It tells me that some people think they know it all but they really dont. Pretty sad when a select few have to go around making up lies about someone else in order to try and make them self look better..

So far, I have been very impressed with the members here at the Anabolic Review Board. What a great bunch of guys!!

[Tenmoney]

I agree, I can't think of anyone that I have run across on this board that was just plain rude. (maybe a little miss informed, lol) As a matter of fact, I'm very impressed with how quick people are to admit it when they're wrong, and not hold grudges against those that correct them. It just goes to show that the common bond on this board REALLY IS to just simply help each other achieve our goals.

[JSola]

Ok, I'm a total A-hole. I read the entire slingshot program and it's really impressive. I just hate sleazy spammers on any forum, and it DID sound like a sales pitch. I feel like a dousche because I think I might try it! Sorry again.

[moush]

timtim...my gains are legit but what do i have to prove to you or anyone else on the board how about you go and check out this thread

My transformation

is that bs? i dont see your pics on this board with transformation pics like that. So ive proven myself through the pics that I can lose 100 lbs, I can gain muscle, and I can get down to 6% bf. Why cant I put on 25-30 lbs when this is the first time i have ever bulked? On a new training and diet program no less. Say what you want my numbers are legit.

[timtim]

timtim...my gains are legit but what do i have to prove to you or anyone else on the board how about you go and check out this thread

My transformation

is that bs? i dont see your pics on this board with transformation pics like that. So ive proven myself through the pics that I can lose 100 lbs, I can gain muscle, and I can get down to 6% bf. Why cant I put on 25-30 lbs when this is the first time i have ever bulked? On a new training and diet program no less. Say what you want my numbers are legit.

congragulations, your results are great. no doubt about that.

why cant you cant you gain 25 to 30 pounds in 8 weeks? basic science. im not getting into it because i dont care enough about dealing with you. no way, even with a large supply of drugs, is the body going to preferentially create 25 to 30 pounds of new muscle tissue in 8 weeks. sorry, its not that black and white and if you dont realize that and accept physiological parameters than your fooling yourself.

either way great job, not taking anything from you. you'll never see pics of me on any webpage be it myspace or anywhere. im not that stupid to reveal my identity in any way, shape, or form. you can sit there and believe i am a fat, scrawny nobody while my diet and training knowledge reflect that of someone with 2 decades of personal experience.

[Ronnie Rowland]

congragulations, your results are great. no doubt about that.

why cant you cant you gain 25 to 30 pounds in 8 weeks? basic science. im not getting into it because i dont care enough about dealing with you. no way, even with a large supply of drugs, is the body going to preferentially create 25 to 30 pounds of new muscle tissue in 8 weeks. sorry, its not that black and white and if you dont realize that and accept physiological parameters than your fooling yourself.

either way great job, not taking anything from you. you'll never see pics of me on any webpage be it myspace or anywhere. im not that stupid to reveal my identity in any way, shape, or form. you can sit there and believe i am a fat, scrawny nobody while my diet and training knowledge reflect that of someone with 2 decades of personal experience.

timtim,as you probably already know, it's not uncommon for men doing their first steroid cycle to to gain 15-30 lbs of body weight in an 8-12 week period. Slingshot Training done right mimics the Action/Reaction Factors of a first time "steroid cycle".

Think about it- when do advanced bodybuilders make their best muscle gains of the entire year? It's after doing a show! During a pre-contest phase bodybuilders will over-train with aerobics and/or under-eat. Immediately following a show they are able to put on additional muscular weight above and beyond what they possessed before dieting doen while staying relatively lean because their body is in a very receptive state. The body can’t take that kind of abuse on a frequent basis, so you must compromise by doing a "anabolic prime". It’s not what you eat, but what your body can absorb. Ask any competitive bodybuilder when they experience their biggest growth spurts and they will tell you it’s during the first 6 weeks after a competition!

[SdiZZle]

timtim-

I went from 164lbs to 194lbs in 12 weeks with my first cycle, and it wasn't even "a ton of drugs". That is a 30lb gain. I have experienced it for myself and in no way doubt that moush managed to accomplish similar returns with his use of STS and the guru's guidance. Also, you will never reveal you identity on myspace.... you sound like a wierdo dude. It's all a conspiracy dude, the man is out to get you via myspace, and people all over are lying about weight gain!

TimTim vs. the Machine - coming this summer to a theater near you.

[timtim]

timtim-

I went from 164lbs to 194lbs in 12 weeks with my first cycle, and it wasn't even "a ton of drugs". That is a 30lb gain. I have experienced it for myself and in no way doubt that moush managed to accomplish similar returns with his use of STS and the guru's guidance. Also, you will never reveal you identity on myspace.... you sound like a wierdo dude. It's all a conspiracy dude, the man is out to get you via myspace, and people all over are lying about weight gain!

TimTim vs. the Machine - coming this summer to a theater near you.

what are you 12 years old? if you cant stay with the thread on an adult level mind your own business. narrow minded people are hilarious. my profession is why i have no pics anywhere on line but since it sounds like your probably in high school or maybe college you wouldnt get that concept. when i go on a job interview i wont have to worry about the employer googling my name and finding personal or embarrassing information out about me. now go away please.

[timtim]

timtim,as you probably already know, it's not uncommon for men doing their first steroid cycle to to gain 15-30 lbs of body weight in an 8-12 week period. Slingshot Training done right mimics the Action/Reaction Factors of a first time "steroid cycle".

Think about it- when do advanced bodybuilders make their best muscle gains of the entire year? It's after doing a show! During a pre-contest phase bodybuilders will over-train with aerobics and/or under-eat. Immediately following a show they are able to put on additional muscular weight above and beyond what they possessed before dieting doen while staying relatively lean because their body is in a very receptive state. The body can’t take that kind of abuse on a frequent basis, so you must compromise by doing a "anabolic prime". It’s not what you eat, but what your body can absorb. Ask any competitive bodybuilder when they experience their biggest growth spurts and they will tell you it’s during the first 6 weeks after a competition!

i am not questioning your plan at all. nor do i think moush's results are less than amazing - they are, no need to argue, he looks great and i congragulate him.

simply put, go the store and look at 30 pounds of muscle in the form of london broil. that much muscle will not jump on a persons body in 8 weeks with or without drugs. lets be clear, muscle is 72% water. if you get your body in the right, perfect balance you could gain a few pounds while dropping body fat - but this state is not maintainable and will produce a few pounds. whenever muscle is gained there is body fat that is gained with it. take all this into account. do i think 30 solid pounds in 8 weeks is possible, no.

nor do i believe these people with their claims of 30 pound gains on cycles either. i put on 25 pounds on my last cycle of 450mg test enanthate a week for 13 weeks at one point - and ive been training for over 19 years. i sure as hell did not gain 25 pounds. on cycle weight means nothing because of the role of water weight. i can be very lean with a good amount of water retention. and this sdizzle guy in his thread claims he has gained water bloat as it is visible in his face. so when he comes off and drops 8 to 10 pounds off the top we wont hear about that but he will try and insist on 30 pounds of weight gain on his cycle. newbies with their bs hype perpetuate these ridiculous claims and in his own thread he states he can see water retention in the face and that is guarantee hes retaining water so his claim of a 30 pound gain is garbage. next on that guy.

i get the rebound effect, ive trained with people doing shows for years and have seen it. your methodology works, no doubt by me. 30 pounds is not happening, at least in MY terminology of muscle gain. but i do believe in your system, makes complete sense.

[Ronnie Rowland]

i am not questioning your plan at all. nor do i think moush's results are less than amazing - they are, no need to argue, he looks great and i congragulate him.

simply put, go the store and look at 30 pounds of muscle in the form of london broil. that much muscle will not jump on a persons body in 8 weeks with or without drugs. lets be clear, muscle is 72% water. if you get your body in the right, perfect balance you could gain a few pounds while dropping body fat - but this state is not maintainable and will produce a few pounds. whenever muscle is gained there is body fat that is gained with it. take all this into account. do i think 30 solid pounds in 8 weeks is possible, no.

nor do i believe these people with their claims of 30 pound gains on cycles either. i put on 25 pounds on my last cycle of 450mg test enanthate a week for 13 weeks at one point - and ive been training for over 19 years. i sure as hell did not gain 25 pounds. on cycle weight means nothing because of the role of water weight. i can be very lean with a good amount of water retention. and this sdizzle guy in his thread claims he has gained water bloat as it is visible in his face. so when he comes off and drops 8 to 10 pounds off the top we wont hear about that but he will try and insist on 30 pounds of weight gain on his cycle. newbies with their bs hype perpetuate these ridiculous claims and in his own thread he states he can see water retention in the face and that is guarantee hes retaining water so his claim of a 30 pound gain is garbage. next on that guy.

i get the rebound effect, ive trained with people doing shows for years and have seen it. your methodology works, no doubt by me. 30 pounds is not happening, at least in MY terminology of muscle gain. but i do believe in your system, makes complete sense.

timtim, we are in agreement!

And as you know, those who do not take anti-es and run testosterone put on a lot more water weight than those taking anti-es. moush is going to slow things down this time around.

[MuscleScience]

You read that paper yet S.T.G.

[SdiZZle]

1- I am 27 years old, thanks ace.

my diet and training knowledge reflect that of someone with 2 decades of personal experience.

2- if you are indead 30 and have 19+ years training experience that means your professional experience started at 11. Awesome.

3- if I google my name, suprisingly niether myspace nor this site come up, because I do not give them my real name. Hmmm.....

4- I admit there is water weight gain, as their is fat gain. Guru talks about body fat gain in his outlines. Big deal. I don't think anyone here claimed to gain 30lbs without gaining fat or water, but still you attack. How about this, if you don't buy this, lay off and leave others alone- who is 12? You post on this thread multiple times a day to do nothing more then tell people they are wrong and you are right. Don't be a d-bag dude. Go find a thread your interested in and quit trashing people for no reason.

In a world where every one was 12 and gaining insane amounts of weight, there was a man... A man who did not believe. This man had conviction. The internet would not know his name. My space would not know his name. But this summer, we will all know his name...

Coming soon to a theater near you... "TimTim, One Against Many"

[timtim]

go back to where i congragulated moush, tenmoney, and completely agree with slingshot guru and tell me where i am trashing people. your the only one who got their thong in a bunch when you werent even involved in the thread piece with moush, tenmoney, guru, and myself. then you say how you gained 30 pounds but now are back peddling because you have zero clue what you are talking about and just want to seem like a big man here.

first you said this:

"I went from 164lbs to 194lbs in 12 weeks with my first cycle, and it wasn't even "a ton of drugs". That is a 30lb gain".

back peddle, back peddle, back peddle, to this:
"I admit there is water weight gain, as their is fat gain. Guru talks about body fat gain in his outlines. Big deal. I don't think anyone here claimed to gain 30lbs without gaining fat or water, but still you attack".

so you didnt gain 30 pounds. if you followed my posts and read for comprehension, i was disagreeing with the fact of gaining a real 30 pounds, not sloppy weight. this may have been too complicated for you but guru got it and he is the one whose knowledge and experience i respect here. im done dealing with a misinformed, story telling newbie.

go away already ace.

1- I am 27 years old, thanks ace.



2- if you are indead 30 and have 19+ years training experience that means your professional experience started at 11. Awesome.

3- if I google my name, suprisingly niether myspace nor this site come up, because I do not give them my real name. Hmmm.....

4- I admit there is water weight gain, as their is fat gain. Guru talks about body fat gain in his outlines. Big deal. I don't think anyone here claimed to gain 30lbs without gaining fat or water, but still you attack. How about this, if you don't buy this, lay off and leave others alone- who is 12? You post on this thread multiple times a day to do nothing more then tell people they are wrong and you are right. Don't be a d-bag dude. Go find a thread your interested in and quit trashing people for no reason.

In a world where every one was 12 and gaining insane amounts of weight, there was a man... A man who did not believe. This man had conviction. The internet would not know his name. My space would not know his name. But this summer, we will all know his name...

Coming soon to a theater near you... "TimTim, One Against Many"

[SdiZZle]

congragulations, your results are great. no doubt about that

Followed immediately by-

why cant you cant you gain 25 to 30 pounds in 8 weeks? basic science. im not getting into it because i dont care enough about dealing with you.

CongraGUlations - you’re a liar. That’s basically what you are saying here.

your claiming to have gained 40 pounds in how long? do you honestly think anyone with real training experience would believe a 40 pound weight gain in even a year for a newbie lifter and your claiming this in a matter of weeks/months.

no way. the program might be great but that is bullsh@t.

I, TimTim completely congraGUlate you moush, you are amazing!

Followed by-

i am not questioning your plan at all. nor do i think moush's results are less than amazing - they are, no need to argue, he looks great and i congragulate him.

Backpedaling?

First let me say the word is congratulate (pronounced congraDulate). You are 30yrs old and involved in the education system and you think the word is congragulate? Do you pronounce it as such?

Here is my problem here. No one on this or any related thread claimed to gain "40lbs of rock solid muscle no water no fat". But this is what you seem to infer from you basic reading abilities, and this is where your argument starts. Once people tell you, no, there was water weight and fat involved YOU backpedal.

I went from 164lbs to 194lbs in 12 weeks with my first cycle, and it wasn't even "a ton of drugs". That is a 30lb gain.

Simple math genius - 194 minus 164 is 30lbs. Note- nowhere do I infer that the 30lbs is rock solid muscle and nothing else. I would assume most people on this board would realize gains like that come with water weight and fat. I will now make that clear so people with only basic comprehension will understand. So I was not backpedaling, but clarifying so you could "get it". Get it? Good.

Of your 800 or so posts a quick glance would show that roughly 700 are negative, telling people they are wrong. I would think this site is on average full of positive thinking energetic people who take charge of their situations and make things happen. Why don't you take your negative BS elsewhere? 5' 5" 200lbs @ 10% bodyfat? You should pretty closely resemble my avatar, Franco Columbu, past Mr. O. Where can we see you on stage since you won't show anyone any pictures?

Hooked-on-Phonics works for TimTim

I love you
S