Socialist economies are competitive

[scriptfactory]

Dont start any name calling there is no need for it. Just chill and relax!

Phreak, script. you are both good bros so dont turn it personal.

Sorry, man! I missed this post. I wasn't name calling maliciously. I was just joking with him because I thought he was joking with me... Maybe not.

[Kärnfysikern]

What the hell does this have to do with the minimum wage scale here in America? Your international labor questions need to be addressed to those 3rd world countries that allow this to occur. Like it or not, less than 1% of US workers who have dependents make minimum wage. Again, the question becomes who would gain by an American minimum wage hike? The democratic politicians who bring it up as a topic in their platform would be the correct answer.

What I am saying is simply that I dont belive in a totaly free economy. Im the first to admit I dont know shit about economi, but it seems obvious there must always be balances to make sure cooperations doesnt run over anything and everything because the CEO's only care about profit.
There interest for profit has to be balanced by laws that force them to take responsibility for the communities they are involved with.
The exodus for production companies into the asian countries with low wages and no environmental laws is cold hard proof that they will do anything to make a extra buck. That shit has to be stopped.

It is the same problem that the Unions have brought upon the US. They raise labor rates so high that large companies are forced to move overseas. I work in the construction industry(supply side). Who would you hire to finish your concrete Johan, a union finisher who gets paid $33.50/hour ($69,680/year) or a non-union finisher who gets paid $14/hour($29,120/year)? Does the union really think that concrete finishing is a job that is truely worth $70K/year? The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports the average annual wages in the U.S. as $36,764 for 2002. Real median earnings of men age 15 and older who worked full-time, year-round in 2003 ($40,668) -source: U.S. Census Bureau
-Logan13

Well 70k sounds awfully high. Im obviously talking about reasonable minimum wages. I cant say I care much for unions either way.
A reasonable minimum is for instance 20k/year as the lowest for someone working 40hours week and 5 weeks paid vaccation. Anyone can live on that, but its not a life in luxury. IMO any full time job is worth that, doesnt matter if its flipping burgers or whatever.

Im not saying the minimum wage should be something absurd like 30-40k. Im just saying that the minimum should be enough so that no one is forced to work several jobs or more than 40 hours week just to survive. Modern society should be about ensuring quality of life for everyone. Like I said earlier I dont mind one bit to pay a few extra cent for a product if I know it ensures higher wages for those working there and Im saying that even though I am a shit poor student. Im willing to lower my standard of living a bit to raise everyone elses.

[Kärnfysikern]

Sorry, man! I missed this post. I wasn't name calling maliciously. I was just joking with him because I thought he was joking with me... Maybe not.

No problem, it just started to sound very hostile and you know how it is on the net. Jokes easily turn into insults if read the wrong way

[Kärnfysikern]

True, both good guys and add much too many threads. Anabolic first, ethnic and political second. Most of those who put ethnic and political first are thankfully gone now!

Was that a discrete hint to me to get lost

Socialism turns into communism which turns into Nazi Germany…Then by our blood we Capitalists will come save you.

Communism good theory, would work if we were in heaven and there was no sin.

The nordic countries has been social democratic for like 70 years without ever drifting towards communism..Modern day socialism isnt realy the same as marx distorted dreams thank god.

Funnily enough capitalism aswell would work perfectly if everyone was good and honest people. Thats why we need both.

Just because you work harder and make more money doesn’t mean you should be penalized with more taxes.

Im all with you here, the same tax % should applie to everyone regardless of wealth. Beeing wealthy is a good thing, not a sin as many socialist proponents seem to think(I am one of those semi socialists that have no jealousy towards rich people, only admiration).

If your government and mine really really cared there would not be hundreds of children raped and dieing from starvation and genocide in Africa daily. If all our countries gave troops to go in there, 2 million troops would stop the genocide in a day, but there is no oil there.

Yeah the world is a truly shitty place if born in the wrong place. Europe and america has never taken the responsibility we need to take towards the rest of the world. To bad the UN never worked out the way it was intended even though it does alot of good.

[Kärnfysikern]

You do realize that there are 8 million Americans (citizens, not illegals) working for under $7.25/hour right? That less than $15,000 annually when working full time. You do realize that isn't enough money for anyone to live on, right? Half of these people making so little are older than 24 years old and half are also the primary income earners for their families.

That is messed up...

Well you know, why care about the bottom 0.5% or so. They are probably stupid, lazy or both so **** em

[scriptfactory]

Well you know, why care about the bottom 0.5% or so. They are probably stupid, lazy or both so **** em

Right! F--k their children, too! They don't need to eat.

[Kärnfysikern]

Right! F--k their children, too! They don't need to eat.

hell yeah, they are like cockroaches, give them food and instead of one lazy bum you get 10 lazy bum sucking the goverment dry. Id say castrate them bastard right away!!

[scriptfactory]

Im all with you here, the same tax % should applie to everyone regardless of wealth. Beeing wealthy is a good thing, not a sin as many socialist proponents seem to think(I am one of those semi socialists that have no jealousy towards rich people, only admiration).

I'm with you also. I think there should be a flat tax rate. The only problem is in the US there are special tax laws. Like the ones for investors. Money made from capital gains (i.e. investments) get special tax breaks. This is great for rich people because the majority of their income doesn't come from wages, it comes from things investments.

Hell, there is like $300 billion dollars a year in tax fraud, most of it coming from corporations and rich individuals and they are almost never prosecuted. I think much more should be done to prosecute these people. The average working class poor person is three times more likely to be audited than a wealthy person ($100k+ annual salary) even though the wealthy person is like 100x more like to commit tax fraud. The funny thing is, there are less and less audits taking place among the rich. Why is that?

[scriptfactory]

hell yeah, they are like cockroaches, give them food and instead of one lazy bum you get 10 lazy bum sucking the goverment dry. Id say castrate them bastard right away!!

The sad part is, a lot of people actually think this way...

[RA]

The sad part is, a lot of people actually think this way...

Now I have to call on this part. The poor in the U.S. would look like rich people in Cuba.

You go into their house and they have a new tv, microwave, cell phone..etc etc etc...and they are probably overweight!

Most of the people working for 15k are just starting out. If you are 40 and still working for that your either stupid, lazy, or both.

[RA]

Im no economist but I dont see another country footing as large a bill at the U.N. or The "International Space Station" or any relief effort that takes place anywhere. Just to name a few...

I reiterate my point. If the "Nordic" countries economies are so much better then why would a much much younger country like the U.S. have to carry a bigger burden?

[Kärnfysikern]

I reiterate my point. If the "Nordic" countries economies are so much better then why would a much much younger country like the U.S. have to carry a bigger burden?

never said they are better, just that they are competitive.

The US carries a smaller burden in relation to population when it comes to the UN and foreign aid.
I cant say how much sweden is fotting to the ISS but its probably not much.

[RA]

never said they are better, just that they are competitive.

.

That will work

[scriptfactory]

Now I have to call on this part. The poor in the U.S. would look like rich people in Cuba.

You go into their house and they have a new tv, microwave, cell phone..etc etc etc...and they are probably overweight!

Most of the people working for 15k are just starting out. If you are 40 and still working for that your either stupid, lazy, or both.

Why do people always say things like this? I'm not a citizen of Cuba so I really don't give a damn what they do with their country. Minimum wage is lower than it has been in the last 50 years. The statistics show that people are making more money than ever, but the poor are poorer than they have been in a very long time... Various polls have shown that something like 9 out of 10 people are in favor of raising minimum wage, the only problem is certain people don't want that to happen. Guess who those people are? I'll give you a hint. They aren't in the lower or middle income brackets.

[Chad B]

Why do people always say things like this? I'm not a citizen of Cuba so I really don't give a damn what they do with their country. Minimum wage is lower than it has been in the last 50 years. The statistics show that people are making more money than ever, but the poor are poorer than they have been in a very long time... Various polls have shown that something like 9 out of 10 people are in favor of raising minimum wage, the only problem is certain people don't want that to happen. Guess who those people are? I'll give you a hint. They aren't in the lower or middle income brackets.

If you have ever journeyed through a third world country, you come back to the USA and you would say that theses “what you call poor, minimum wage people”, are truly blessed of God to be in America were they are full. Not with materialistic things but necessary things. Unless you are that vein. This is why there are hundreds of thousands literally dieing to come to America, the land of the Free.

Rich and poor people are committing suicide. Riches are within you, inner peace. You could be a rich poor (unhappy) person or a poor happy person with riches within.

I just can’t believe these ungrateful, inconsiderate people could complain about these well feed (most obese in America), housed people when hundreds of 10,11,12… year old girls are being raped daily, thousands of children being starved to death daily, all by soldiers in Africa. They have no fire power, all our governments could give troops to go in there, and 2 million troops would put a stop to this horrific act in 1 day with no casualties. But all our governments just talk about putting a stop to it. All Hippocrates. Then I hear these guys, complaining about $7 an hour and wanting to give more power to the government, makes me sick.

What is the difference in Hitter Germany and our governments just watching this go on, I heard it has over doubled the death as the holocaust. How can all our countries allow this to be going on in the world, how can they live with themselves. All Hippocrates.

[scriptfactory]

If you have ever journeyed through a third world country, you come back to the USA and you would say that theses “what you call poor, minimum wage people”, are truly blessed of God to be in America were they are full. Not with materialistic things but necessary things. Unless you are that vein. This is why there are hundreds of thousands literally dieing to come to America, the land of the Free.

Rich and poor people are committing suicide. Riches are within you, inner peace. You could be a rich poor (unhappy) person or a poor happy person with riches within.

I just can’t believe these ungrateful, inconsiderate people could complain about these well feed (most obese in America), housed people when hundreds of 10,11,12… year old girls are being raped daily, thousands of children being starved to death daily, all by soldiers in Africa. They have no fire power, all our governments could give troops to go in there, and 2 million troops would put a stop to this horrific act in 1 day with no casualties. But all our governments just talk about putting a stop to it. All Hippocrates. Then I hear these guys, complaining about $7 an hour and wanting to give more power to the government, makes me sick.

What is the difference in Hitter Germany and our governments just watching this go on, I heard it has over doubled the death as the holocaust. How can all our countries allow this to be going on in the world, how can they live with themselves. All Hippocrates.

What are you talking about, dude? I'm talking about helping the US solve its internal problems. In fact, if we focused more on our social issues and less on foreign ones there would be a drastic change in the social outlook of the US.

That being said, I totally agree with you about the hypocritical nature of Americans. US citizens DO have it good compared to a lot of people around the world. I sympathize with the situation in Africa more than a lot of people do. I was about to volunteer there but my wife got pregnant and threatened to leave me if I left her to have that baby on her own! The US does a lot of good in the world but it seems like money is being spent on inappropriate things. The US has spent over $300 billion dollars to "fight terror" in Iraq. The funny thing is, like I said earlier, more than that is stolen every year due to tax fraud. While we are wasting so much money we might as well fix our internal problems first, right? I mean, the health care situation is getting ridiculous. That's all I'm saying.

[Chad B]

Bold...

Why do people always say things like this? Because it is the hard truth, can you handle it?

I'm not a citizen of Cuba so I really don't give a damn what they do with their country. so I guess your ok with thousands of children raped and starved to death by goverment solders in africa?

Minimum wage is lower than it has been in the last 50 years. The statistics show that people are making more money than ever, but the poor are poorer than they have been in a very long time... Various polls have shown that something like 9 out of 10 people are in favor of raising minimum wage, the only problem is certain people don't want that to happen. Guess who those people are? I'll give you a hint. They aren't in the lower or middle income brackets. Wrong they are the upper middle class.

[scriptfactory]

Because it is the hard truth, can you handle it?

Umm... the same people who talk about these facts don't give a damn about the people in those countries. They just use it as an excuse to say US citizens aren't so poor...

so I guess your ok with thousands of children raped and starved to death by goverment solders in africa?

Not at all. Why would I be OK with it? I'm all for the greater good. If the US was devoting the majority of it's resources to dealing with actual problems instead of fictional ones I would have absolutely no problem with it. Too bad it isn't happening.

Wrong they are the upper middle class

I wasn't including the upper middle class and higher in my statement. Only the poor and "normal" middle class.

[Chad B]

bold...

What are you talking about, dude? I'm talking about helping the US solve its internal problems. In fact, if we focused more on our social issues and less on foreign ones there would be a drastic change in the social outlook of the US. We are all humans and there should be no foreigners. Selfishness is why the world is the way it is

That being said, I totally agree with you about the hypocritical nature of Americans. I said all our "rich" Countries!

US citizens DO have it good compared to a lot of people around the world. I sympathize with the situation in Africa more than a lot of people do. I was about to volunteer there but my wife got pregnant and threatened to leave me if I left her to have that baby on her own! The US does a lot of good in the world but it seems like money is being spent on inappropriate things. The US has spent over $300 billion dollars to "fight terror" in Iraq. The funny thing is, like I said earlier, more than that is stolen every year due to tax fraud. While we are wasting so much money we might as well fix our internal problems first, right? You mean strain the Nat and swallow the camel

I mean, the health care situation is getting ridiculous. That's all I'm saying. I don't know how you grew up but I was on the streets, homeless for 10 years, during that time I got very sick several times, even were I needed surgery. I had NO money but still got free medical care from the USA. So you can read all you want, I LIVED IT… PERSONAL TESTAMONEY…THE TRUTH IS HITTING YOU, WILL YOU BELIEVE IT OR WILL YOU CHOOSE TO CLOSE YOUR EARS AND BELIEVE A LIE. After saying this I feel free to say that we have no medical problem in America compared to the medical problems of Africa, So we should help them first and foremost

.

[Chad B]

Umm... the same people who talk about these facts don't give a damn about the people in those countries. They just use it as an excuse to say US citizens aren't so poor...


Not at all. Why would I be OK with it? I'm all for the greater good. If the US was devoting the majority of it's resources to dealing with actual problems instead of fictional ones I would have absolutely no problem with it. Too bad it isn't happening.


I wasn't including the upper middle class and higher in my statement. Only the poor and "normal" middle class.

O.K

[Chad B]

I understand that most of the world wants to point the finger at the USA. All I am trying to explain is that ALL the countries of the world are to blame, they all just sit back and watch sex slave camps go on in Thailand, genocide in Africa…No reason, like I said if all our countries gave troops, 2 million troops would put a stop to this in one day.

[Kärnfysikern]

No reason, like I said if all our countries gave troops, 2 million troops would put a stop to this in one day.

I guess the problem lies in that we would have to keep those troops there permanently because history has shown again and again that civilisation can not be forced upon people. A invasion with the best of intention always ends bloody

I would be all for sending alot more swedish peacekeepers to africa and support a much stronger UN with much more clear rights. I would not object to giving UN powers to step into situations without approvement from the local goverments.

[Chad B]

I guess the problem lies in that we would have to keep those troops there permanently because history has shown again and again that civilisation can not be forced upon people. A invasion with the best of intention always ends bloody

I would be all for sending alot more swedish peacekeepers to africa and support a much stronger UN with much more clear rights. I would not object to giving UN powers to step into situations without approvement from the local goverments.

GOOD POINTS JOHAN

It would not be like Irack

2 million troops! There would not be a shot fired.

So just sit back and watch?

Africa was better off when it was under foreign rule. Split the countries up among civilized countries.

[Chad B]

I guess the problem lies in that we would have to keep those troops there permanently because history has shown again and again that civilisation can not be forced upon people. A invasion with the best of intention always ends bloody

I would be all for sending alot more swedish peacekeepers to africa and support a much stronger UN with much more clear rights. I would not object to giving UN powers to step into situations without approvement from the local goverments.

This is a new time. Give them another chance. Set up a good government and leave, troops would go home. It would not be like Irack, it would be quick, No oil No money NO firepower, plus the people won't get a bunch of virgins for dieing.

[RA]

Why do people always say things like this? I'm not a citizen of Cuba so I really don't give a damn what they do with their country. Minimum wage is lower than it has been in the last 50 years. The statistics show that people are making more money than ever, but the poor are poorer than they have been in a very long time... Various polls have shown that something like 9 out of 10 people are in favor of raising minimum wage, the only problem is certain people don't want that to happen. Guess who those people are? I'll give you a hint. They aren't in the lower or middle income brackets.

They also arent small business owners. You raise the minimum and those businesses lay people off. The minimum wage is a Democrat gimmick to seperate the have and have-nots.

...and I say stuff like that because Im tired of people in this country whining about the poor. They want to see real poor people, head over to cuba. They get the minimum that a person can live on..not like in this country where you have a "poor" person that is 300lbs.

[J.S.N.]

They also arent small business owners. You raise the minimum and those businesses lay people off. The minimum wage is a Democrat gimmick to seperate the have and have-nots.

...and I say stuff like that because Im tired of people in this country whining about the poor. They want to see real poor people, head over to cuba. They get the minimum that a person can live on..not like in this country where you have a "poor" person that is 300lbs.

just because a person is fat doesn't mean they have a good/expensive diet. in fact, you can be extremely overweight AND malnourished, which is the situation alot of these people find themselves in. AND it's a very easy thing to happen with foods derived from corn syrup being everywhere in america. shit like pasta, potatoes, soft drinks, they're all cheap and plentiful. it costs alot more to eat fish, beef, chicken, etc.

btw in cuba if you're dirt poor and you get cancer BAM they treat you for free. here in america you're dirt poor and get cancer and the best scenario you can hope for is they will treat you (it will be horrible care) now and leave you in debt until the day you die.

[RA]

just because a person is fat doesn't mean they have a good/expensive diet. in fact, you can be extremely overweight AND malnourished, which is the situation alot of these people find themselves in. AND it's a very easy thing to happen with foods derived from corn syrup being everywhere in america. shit like pasta, potatoes, soft drinks, they're all cheap and plentiful. it costs alot more to eat fish, beef, chicken, etc.

btw in cuba if you're dirt poor and you get cancer BAM they treat you for free. here in america you're dirt poor and get cancer and the best scenario you can hope for is they will treat you (it will be horrible care) now and leave you in debt until the day you die.

Yeah, Ive heard that BS before. If you can maintain 300 unhealthy pounds you can maintain 150 healthy pounds...get my point?

LMAO about the cancer thing...and just like in Canada you might die before you get treatment. You cant blow that kind of smoke up my ass..lol

I live in Northern MI and we get Canadian people all the time seeking treatment because they would die or we have better specialists.

[J.S.N.]

actually you're completely wrong. cuba's health care system is better than canada's, and canada's is better than america's overall. also it costs less to eat a couple bags of potatos a day than it does to eat a balanced diet of fruits, vegetables, and meat like you're supposed to. so maybe you're not blowing smoke up anyone's ass, but you logic blows. peace.

[RA]

actually you're completely wrong. cuba's health care system is better than canada's, and canada's is better than america's overall. also it costs less to eat a couple bags of potatos a day than it does to eat a balanced diet of fruits, vegetables, and meat like you're supposed to. so maybe you're not blowing smoke up anyone's ass, but you logic blows. peace.

Buying food to maintain 300lbs would be more expensive then buying food to maintain 150lbs. How much does it cost for a healthy choice frozen dinner? Like $3?

No way in hell Canadas healthcare is better...why do you think we have people coming here all the time for treatment?

[J.S.N.]

lol btw who the eff comes to northern MI for health care? no one. if someone up north is seriously ill they go to UM if they can afford it.

[Logan13]

You do realize that there are 8 million Americans (citizens, not illegals) working for under $7.25/hour right? That less than $15,000 annually when working full time. You do realize that isn't enough money for anyone to live on, right? Half of these people making so little are older than 24 years old and half are also the primary income earners for their families.

That is messed up...

If everyone were paid more, everyone would have to pay more for their goods and services. Therefore, the buying power would remain unchanged. Damn, the college and high school kids that work at the local McDonald's make $7.25/hour starting out. View the US labor statistics, the vast majority of those making $7.25/hour or less are single and/or minors.

[RA]

lol btw who the eff comes to northern MI for health care? no one. if someone up north is seriously ill they go to UM if they can afford it.

People from Canada... Im 110 miles from the bridge and we have an excellent hospital. They are cutting edge with open hearts.

[scriptfactory]

If everyone were paid more, everyone would have to pay more for their goods and services. Therefore, the buying power would remain unchanged. Damn, the college and high school kids that work at the local McDonald's make $7.25/hour starting out. View the US labor statistics, the vast majority of those making $7.25/hour or less are single and/or minors.

I did. Half are over 24 years old and about half are the primary income earners for their families so...

[Logan13]

I did. Half are over 24 years old and about half are the primary income earners for their families so...

These people also get food stamps, gov't housing, state paid healthcare, etc... Funny thing, many of these making such little money live in a double wide with a big screen TV to watch the races on Sunday. Many others who are financially challenged have cell phones and spinners on their rims. "Poor" does not necessarily mean poor in the US.......... As roidattack pointed out, if they were that destitute, their wouldn't be a 70% obesity rate in the US. Obviously, very, very few are going hungry. The minimum wage debate is really not a debate at all, it is a politically motivated good guy vs. bad guy scenario cooked up by Democrats. Those fukking democrats!!........

[Logan13]

I guess the problem lies in that we would have to keep those troops there permanently because history has shown again and again that civilisation can not be forced upon people. A invasion with the best of intention always ends bloody

I would be all for sending alot more swedish peacekeepers to africa and support a much stronger UN with much more clear rights. I would not object to giving UN powers to step into situations without approvement from the local goverments.

As I understand it, Denmark and Sweden have had a rather large "sex slave" trade going on there for years. Why not fix the problems in your own backyard first...remember the cautionary tale about those who live in glass houses?

[J.S.N.]

As I understand it, Denmark and Sweden have had a rather large "sex slave" trade going on there for years. Why not fix the problems in your own backyard first...remember the cautionary tale about those who live in glass houses?

dude you're thinking of albania.

[Prada]

....

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent vice of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

- Winston Churchill

[scriptfactory]

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent vice of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

- Winston Churchill

Communism forgets that life is individual. Capitalism forgets that life is social, and the kingdom of brotherhood is found neither in the thesis of communism nor the antithesis of capitalism but in a higher synthesis. It is found in a higher synthesis that combines the truths of both.
-- Martin Luther King Jr.

[Chad B]

just because a person is fat doesn't mean they have a good/expensive diet. in fact, you can be extremely overweight AND malnourished, which is the situation alot of these people find themselves in. AND it's a very easy thing to happen with foods derived from corn syrup being everywhere in america. shit like pasta, potatoes, soft drinks, they're all cheap and plentiful. it costs alot more to eat fish, beef, chicken, etc.

btw in cuba if you're dirt poor and you get cancer BAM they treat you for free. here in america you're dirt poor and get cancer and the best scenario you can hope for is they will treat you (it will be horrible care) now and leave you in debt until the day you die.

Is this guy for real? Do you live in the USA?

The only way to go hungry in the US is if you lock your self in a room, but then the police may break in, take you to a hospital and feed you.

I think there is a lot of false hype going around internationally about the US. Spread by commi *******

[Chad B]

just because a person is fat doesn't mean they have a good/expensive diet. in fact, you can be extremely overweight AND malnourished, which is the situation alot of these people find themselves in. AND it's a very easy thing to happen with foods derived from corn syrup being everywhere in america. shit like pasta, potatoes, soft drinks, they're all cheap and plentiful. it costs alot more to eat fish, beef, chicken, etc.

btw in cuba if you're dirt poor and you get cancer BAM they treat you for free. here in america you're dirt poor and get cancer and the best scenario you can hope for is they will treat you (it will be horrible care) now and leave you in debt until the day you die.

Have you ever heard of food stampes? See the US gov gives these to anybody who asks for them. Food stamps are like money but you can only buy food with them. Any food you want Chicken, Steak...

Try talking out of your other hole.