Socialist economies are competitive

[Chad B]

just because a person is fat doesn't mean they have a good/expensive diet. in fact, you can be extremely overweight AND malnourished, which is the situation alot of these people find themselves in. AND it's a very easy thing to happen with foods derived from corn syrup being everywhere in america. shit like pasta, potatoes, soft drinks, they're all cheap and plentiful. it costs alot more to eat fish, beef, chicken, etc.

btw in cuba if you're dirt poor and you get cancer BAM they treat you for free. here in america you're dirt poor and get cancer and the best scenario you can hope for is they will treat you (it will be horrible care) now and leave you in debt until the day you die.

Is this why drift boats full of Cubans wash up on the Florida shores? Hundreds of thousands of Cubans risking there life on rafts with no motor or sails, praying the currants take them to the Free America. For if they touch ground USA law makes them citizens.


Or maybe boats full of americans washing up on the cuba shores.

[RA]

....

Great quote prada

[J.S.N.]

Have you ever heard of food stampes? See the US gov gives these to anybody who asks for them. Food stamps are like money but you can only buy food with them. Any food you want Chicken, Steak...

Try talking out of your other hole.

okay i'll use you own logic. why are there soup kitchens in the US? if everyone has enought to eat then why are there soup kitchens?

btw you can use food stamps any way you want, but you only have so many of them. i did a little digging and found out that in california, for example, the maximum amount of food stamps you can recieve is $5 a day. ref. so no, you cannot eat chicken, steak etc.

[Chad B]

okay i'll use you own logic. why are there soup kitchens in the US? if everyone has enought to eat then why are there soup kitchens?

btw you can use food stamps any way you want, but you only have so many of them. i did a little digging and found out that in california, for example, the maximum amount of food stamps you can recieve is $5 a day. ref. so no, you cannot eat chicken, steak etc.

Soup kitchens are mostly for homeless people who don’t have means of cooking food.

Not only do we give food stamps but we give food boxes, once a week you can go get a couple of boxes full of food.

May I please ask were you live?

[Chad B]

okay i'll use you own logic. why are there soup kitchens in the US? if everyone has enought to eat then why are there soup kitchens?

btw you can use food stamps any way you want, but you only have so many of them. i did a little digging and found out that in california, for example, the maximum amount of food stamps you can recieve is $5 a day. ref. so no, you cannot eat chicken, steak etc.

$5 will get you over 3 pounds of chicken, enough chicken for a few days.

[J.S.N.]

Soup kitchens are mostly for homeless people who don’t have means of cooking food.

Not only do we give food stamps but we give food boxes, once a week you can go get a couple of boxes full of food.

May I please ask were you live?

you can ask but i won't tell. you have to guess.

and btw you try live on $5 a day for food. not just this magical deal with chicken that lasts three days, i'm talking vegetables with actual micronutrients, starches for energy, etc.

[Chad B]

[QUOTE=J.S.N.]you can ask but i won't tell. you have to guess.

Veg are on sale for $1 a pound, sometimes less. 10 pound bag of potato for $3

Remember food stamps are just one of the feeding programs, we give big food boxes every week, there are also many churches and private org. giving away food weekly, even paying for hotels for homeless people. My friends mom has section 8, she only pays $80 a month for a 3 bedroom house and an private org delivers food to her door every week! , USA sure is a good place to be!

My guess is CANADA or at a university in the USA

[Chad B]

you can ask but i won't tell. you have to guess.

and btw you try live on $5 a day for food. not just this magical deal with chicken that lasts three days, i'm talking vegetables with actual micronutrients, starches for energy, etc.

Magic? I was just at the store, Whole 3 pound uncooked dressed chicken for $3.50

[mcpeepants]

GOOD POINTS JOHAN

It would not be like Irack

2 million troops! There would not be a shot fired.

So just sit back and watch?

Africa was better off when it was under foreign rule. Split the countries up among civilized countries.

Better off. Africans were either be looted, used as slave labor, or being "civilized" by foreigner. Europeans weren't ruling Africa to help them out, they were there for wealth.

[Chad B]

Better off. Africans were either be looted, used as slave labor, or being "civilized" by foreigner. Europeans weren't ruling Africa to help them out, they were there for wealth.

So now a mother goes to get water for her family and when she gets to the water well there are soliders there who rape her then give her water. If the husband was to go they would kill him, so she is forced to get water and a raping when her child needs water.

Like I said, they were better of under Foreign Rule. PERIOD

[Prada]

Great quote prada

It's by Winston Churchill, he has a lot of colorful comments. The credit belongs to him.

I didn't want to enter this debate because, I reiterate, it's futile however I think a few are oblivious to the fact that of all these states, mentioned herein, none is pure capitalistic nor socialist. They are only tilted somewhat more towards another. The capitalism we see today is not "pure' the way Adam Smith described it I believe in The Wealth of Nations. It is this laissez faire attitude that is harmful and without ANY governement intervention quite anarchaic actually. Letting the "invisible hand" venture and being guided by common citizens is taking for granted the intentions of these citizens. I think in his theory, Smith, under-estimated greed and overestimated goodwill of humans. Somewhat of an idealist.

As far as Karl Marx and his idealogy of Socialism, well under that where free markets, enterprises etc would be abolished and much would me state controlled. Where is the incentive to work harder if all results will be shared equally? I've always believed that socialism doesnt enourage creativity, perseverence and sharing of intellectual thoughts and minds. Hence that is the reciprocal of an apex or the most important drawback of socialism. Assuming that all humans are alike is incorrect. Assuming that all will work as hard and have the same inputs into society yet will derive the same outputs. What incentive does one have a increasing his productivity if it yields the same result, or almost the same. A successful state where all citizens share the fruits of their labour and all will be content is also a utopian idealogy.

Hence a combination of the two is what has proven to suit society best. Hence the the question that looms is what degree of governement intervention is deemed acceptable?

[Chad B]

you can ask but i won't tell. you have to guess.

and btw you try live on $5 a day for food. not just this magical deal with chicken that lasts three days, i'm talking vegetables with actual micronutrients, starches for energy, etc.

Must be the UK because everything cost so much over there.

[mcpeepants]

So now a mother goes to get water for her family and when she gets to the water well there are soliders there who rape her then give her water. If the husband was to go they would kill him, so she is forced to get water and a raping when her child needs water.

Like I said, they were better of under Foreign Rule. PERIOD

Don't paint africa with one brush. And don't forget rape happens everywhere including the West. Women get raped a lot in the US, I don't think we're clamoring to be ruled by British.

So why do think they were better off under colonial rule? The European ruled Africa to line their pockets. I don't think millions of central africans who exploited, enslaved and killed under King Leopold the seconds rule thought life was better under foreign rule.

[Chad B]

It's by Winston Churchill, he has a lot of colorful comments. The credit belongs to him.

I didn't want to enter this debate because, I reiterate, it's futile however I think a few are oblivious to the fact that of all these states, mentioned herein, none is pure capitalistic nor socialist. They are only tilted somewhat more towards another. The capitalism we see today is not "pure' the way Adam Smith described it I believe in The Wealth of Nations. It is this laissez faire attitude that is harmful and without ANY governement intervention quite anarchaic actually. Letting the "invisible hand" venture and being guided by common citizens is taking for granted the intentions of these citizens. I think in his theory, Smith, under-estimated greed and overestimated goodwill of humans. Somewhat of an idealist.

As far as Karl Marx and his idealogy of Socialism, well under that where free markets, enterprises etc would be abolished and much would me state controlled. Where is the incentive to work harder if all results will be shared equally? I've always believed that socialism doesnt enourage creativity, perseverence and sharing of intellectual thoughts and minds. Hence that is the reciprocal of an apex or the most important drawback of socialism. Assuming that all humans are alike is incorrect. Assuming that all will work as hard and have the same inputs into society yet will derive the same outputs. What incentive does one have a increasing his productivity if it yields the same result, or almost the same. A successful state where all citizens share the fruits of their labour and all will be content is also a utopian idealogy.

Hence a combination of the two is what has proven to suit society best. Hence the the question that looms is what degree of governement intervention is deemed acceptable?

Good post

[Chad B]

Don't paint africa with one brush. And don't forget rape happens everywhere including the West. Women get raped a lot in the US, I don't think we're clamoring to be ruled by British.

So why do think they were better off under colonial rule? The European ruled Africa to line their pockets. I don't think millions of central africans who exploited, enslaved and killed under King Leopold the seconds rule thought life was better under foreign rule.

You do know what is going on over there RIGHT? Seems like you don't so here is a article I cut and pasted.


All of our experts vehemently agree that Sudan has long been suffering in extremis, and that the international community has the obligation to intervene.

Since early 2003, the government of Sudan has been waging a campaign of genocide against targeted African communities in Darfur, western Sudan. In September 2004, the Bush Administration rightfully recognized that genocide was taking place in Darfur, yet the U.S. has failed to respond to this crisis with the urgency that is required. As the death toll in Darfur continues to mount, it is clear that nothing short of international intervention can protect the people of Darfur and stop this genocide.

Over 450,000 people have lost their lives in Darfur since the genocide began. More than 2.5 million people have been displaced, their livelihoods and villages destroyed by government forces and their proxy militias, and many thousands of women and girls have been raped by these forces. Recent reports confirm that the government-sponsored violence continues in Darfur, and that the security situation is deteriorating. The humanitarian crisis that forms part of the genocide is escalating, as the government of Sudan continues to obstruct humanitarian operations, creating famine conditions for millions of vulnerable people.

As the genocide continues, our most important priority must be to provide protection to the people of Darfur. The African Union (AU) has shown important leadership, and its mission in Darfur is doing what it can in the face of growing insecurity. But the AU cannot address this crisis alone, nor should it have to. Genocide is an international crime, and it requires an urgent international response.

Unless there is an immediate international intervention in Darfur, up to a million people may be dead by the end of this year. An international intervention is essential to support the AU’s efforts, and can achieve four critical purposes: (1) stop the killing and provide security for millions of internally displaced people (IDPs); (2) facilitate the urgent delivery of humanitarian assistance; (3) enforce the AU cease-fire established by the Darfur Peace Agreement between the government of Sudan and one of the rebel groups; and (4) facilitate the voluntary return of IDPs to their land and the reconstruction of their homes by providing a secure environment.

The U.S. is the only government that has rightfully recognized that genocide is taking place in Darfur, and this brings with it a unique obligation to act. The U.S. also has a unique capacity, as the most powerful country in the world, to assert strong leadership and encourage international action to protect civilians and stop the genocide in Darfur.

The Bush Administration has provided humanitarian assistance for Darfur, and has given limited logistical support to the African Union mission, but it has failed to mount an urgent response to the ongoing genocide. The Bush Administration has equivocated on Darfur in part because it wishes to maintain an intelligence-sharing partnership with the Khartoum government in the interests of the so-called “War on Terror”. But genocide is a unique crime and it requires a unique and urgent response. Thousands of lives can still be saved if action is taken now.

Africa Action’s Campaign to Stop Genocide in Darfur is calling on the U.S. to work with the United Nations (UN) to provide the African Union force with a strong mandate under the UN Charter to enable it to protect civilians. Africa Action is also calling on the U.S. to seek a UN resolution authorizing a multinational intervention force to support the AU and protect the people of Darfur.

Just over a decade ago, the U.S. blocked international action as genocide unfolded in Rwanda, and 800,000 lives were lost. Government officials who remained silent during the Rwandan genocide often claim that if Americans had clamored for more government action, the U.S. would have had to work with the UN to intervene, and could have saved hundreds of thousands of lives. Today, this provides Americans with unique power to protect the people of Darfur. We must push the U.S. to do everything necessary to ensure a multinational intervention force to stop the genocide in Darfur as a critical first step to bringing peace and stability to this troubled region.

Check out our “Campaign Updates” for more information on our current initiatives to change U.S. policy on this issue.


Ripples of Genocide: Journey Through Eastern Congo, chronicling the devastation unfolding in the eastern part of the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC). The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum's Committee on Conscience, in cooperation with Angelina Jolie and the International Crisis Group, launched an online exhibition, The site includes a teachers guide to aid educators in developing lessons on the country's situation. "Since 1998, more than 3.5 million people have died in the Democratic Republic of the Congo," states Jerry Fowler, Director of the Museum's Committee on Conscience. "More people have died in this conflict than in any other since World War II, but it has received scant attention in the U.S., and few Americans are aware of its massive scope."The war in Congo began in 1996, and with only a brief period of peace, reignited in 1998. For civilians, particularly in the east, the results are devastating. A mortality study by the International Rescue Committee estimates that between 1998 and 2004, approximately 3.8 million deaths have occurred as a result of the way. The number of deaths continues to rise. It is the deadliest conflict since World War II. www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/congojournal

Sondra Hale, Professor of Anthropology and Women’s Studies at UCLA and co-editor of the forthcoming Perspectives on Genocide in Sudan, agrees with Deng that the prohibition of language, destruction of books, documents, monuments, and religious objects constitutes "cultural genocide." She argues that "the intentional war of attrition against the Nuba has the effect of genocide," and highlights sex crimes and other forms of repression directed at women.

[Chad B]

Don't paint africa with one brush. And don't forget rape happens everywhere including the West. Women get raped a lot in the US, I don't think we're clamoring to be ruled by British.

Hundreds of women are being raped by soliders every day. How can you compare that to USA. Are there Police in the USA raping hundreds of 14ish year old girls daily, NO.

They would be better off under European or American rule.

I say go in there and kill these child rapist and set up a new gov.

[mcpeepants]

You do know what is going on over there RIGHT? Seems like you don't so here is a article I cut and pasted.


All of our experts vehemently agree that Sudan has long been suffering in extremis, and that the international community has the obligation to intervene.

Since early 2003, the government of Sudan has been waging a campaign of genocide against targeted African communities in Darfur, western Sudan. In September 2004, the Bush Administration rightfully recognized that genocide was taking place in Darfur, yet the U.S. has failed to respond to this crisis with the urgency that is required. As the death toll in Darfur continues to mount, it is clear that nothing short of international intervention can protect the people of Darfur and stop this genocide.

Over 450,000 people have lost their lives in Darfur since the genocide began. More than 2.5 million people have been displaced, their livelihoods and villages destroyed by government forces and their proxy militias, and many thousands of women and girls have been raped by these forces. Recent reports confirm that the government-sponsored violence continues in Darfur, and that the security situation is deteriorating. The humanitarian crisis that forms part of the genocide is escalating, as the government of Sudan continues to obstruct humanitarian operations, creating famine conditions for millions of vulnerable people.

As the genocide continues, our most important priority must be to provide protection to the people of Darfur. The African Union (AU) has shown important leadership, and its mission in Darfur is doing what it can in the face of growing insecurity. But the AU cannot address this crisis alone, nor should it have to. Genocide is an international crime, and it requires an urgent international response.

Unless there is an immediate international intervention in Darfur, up to a million people may be dead by the end of this year. An international intervention is essential to support the AU’s efforts, and can achieve four critical purposes: (1) stop the killing and provide security for millions of internally displaced people (IDPs); (2) facilitate the urgent delivery of humanitarian assistance; (3) enforce the AU cease-fire established by the Darfur Peace Agreement between the government of Sudan and one of the rebel groups; and (4) facilitate the voluntary return of IDPs to their land and the reconstruction of their homes by providing a secure environment.

The U.S. is the only government that has rightfully recognized that genocide is taking place in Darfur, and this brings with it a unique obligation to act. The U.S. also has a unique capacity, as the most powerful country in the world, to assert strong leadership and encourage international action to protect civilians and stop the genocide in Darfur.

The Bush Administration has provided humanitarian assistance for Darfur, and has given limited logistical support to the African Union mission, but it has failed to mount an urgent response to the ongoing genocide. The Bush Administration has equivocated on Darfur in part because it wishes to maintain an intelligence-sharing partnership with the Khartoum government in the interests of the so-called “War on Terror”. But genocide is a unique crime and it requires a unique and urgent response. Thousands of lives can still be saved if action is taken now.

Africa Action’s Campaign to Stop Genocide in Darfur is calling on the U.S. to work with the United Nations (UN) to provide the African Union force with a strong mandate under the UN Charter to enable it to protect civilians. Africa Action is also calling on the U.S. to seek a UN resolution authorizing a multinational intervention force to support the AU and protect the people of Darfur.

Just over a decade ago, the U.S. blocked international action as genocide unfolded in Rwanda, and 800,000 lives were lost. Government officials who remained silent during the Rwandan genocide often claim that if Americans had clamored for more government action, the U.S. would have had to work with the UN to intervene, and could have saved hundreds of thousands of lives. Today, this provides Americans with unique power to protect the people of Darfur. We must push the U.S. to do everything necessary to ensure a multinational intervention force to stop the genocide in Darfur as a critical first step to bringing peace and stability to this troubled region.

Check out our “Campaign Updates” for more information on our current initiatives to change U.S. policy on this issue.


Ripples of Genocide: Journey Through Eastern Congo, chronicling the devastation unfolding in the eastern part of the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC). The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum's Committee on Conscience, in cooperation with Angelina Jolie and the International Crisis Group, launched an online exhibition, The site includes a teachers guide to aid educators in developing lessons on the country's situation. "Since 1998, more than 3.5 million people have died in the Democratic Republic of the Congo," states Jerry Fowler, Director of the Museum's Committee on Conscience. "More people have died in this conflict than in any other since World War II, but it has received scant attention in the U.S., and few Americans are aware of its massive scope."The war in Congo began in 1996, and with only a brief period of peace, reignited in 1998. For civilians, particularly in the east, the results are devastating. A mortality study by the International Rescue Committee estimates that between 1998 and 2004, approximately 3.8 million deaths have occurred as a result of the way. The number of deaths continues to rise. It is the deadliest conflict since World War II. www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/congojournal

Sondra Hale, Professor of Anthropology and Women’s Studies at UCLA and co-editor of the forthcoming Perspectives on Genocide in Sudan, agrees with Deng that the prohibition of language, destruction of books, documents, monuments, and religious objects constitutes "cultural genocide." She argues that "the intentional war of attrition against the Nuba has the effect of genocide," and highlights sex crimes and other forms of repression directed at women.

I'm well aware of what's going on in Darfur cause I do pay attention to the news. Also, I am from Uganda, which borders Sudan to the south. However, just jumping in the situation without understanding the history and grievences will lead to disaster. The darfur conflict is first and foremost a battle of resources. The Janjaweed who are backed by Sudan are cattle keepers while the other Darfurians are mostly farmers. They are fighting over water and land use. The most important things do is to protect the civillians and that can be done by financially supporting AU troops. To solve the conflict, we address how to fairly split the land resources. We can not overlook the fact that Sudan is fearful of our real intentions of the West. They were that we want to split the oil and resource rich South from Sudan. They can see how Iraq is shattering into pieces after the presence of US, British, and their allies troops.

[mcpeepants]

Hundreds of women are being raped by soliders every day. How can you compare that to USA. Are there Police in the USA raping hundreds of 14ish year old girls daily, NO.

They would be better off under European or American rule.

I say go in there and kill these child rapist and set up a new gov.

I wasn't saying police were doing it. I'm just saying their is a lot of rape. Europeans governments and business were exploiting and looting Africa. How is that better? Do think they were like I'm being worked as a slave and many of my friends and family have been killed, but I least someone's making money off me?

[J.S.N.]

no you're wrong about where i'm from in all guesses and 3lbs. uncooked chicken does not yield 3lbs of cooked food. you're prolly talking about one of those nasty ass whole dressed chickens with the bones and skin and shit- ick that shit is for pleb's. i wouldn't eat that if you put a gun to my head. no one should have to eat that. except maybe minorities.

[Chad B]

I wasn't saying police were doing it. I'm just saying their is a lot of rape. Europeans governments and business were exploiting and looting Africa. How is that better? Do think they were like I'm being worked as a slave and many of my friends and family have been killed, but I least someone's making money off me?

It is not better, but not as bad a genocide, hence the better off.

It is all bad, to bad the world is the way it is

To bad the world can sit back and watch this going on without intervening.

[Phreak101]

and how, pray tell, does that apply to the real world? you can work "full time" (39.5hrs.) at a place like wal-mart and home depot right now for minimum wage and not make enough money to support yourself, much less a spouse and 2.5 kids, much less china where it's so much worse.

That's not true at all. I know plenty of people who do. Besides, Home Depot pays 10.50 an hour starting.

[Chad B]

no you're wrong about where i'm from in all guesses and 3lbs. uncooked chicken does not yield 3lbs of cooked food. you're prolly talking about one of those nasty ass whole dressed chickens with the bones and skin and shit- ick that shit is for pleb's. i wouldn't eat that if you put a gun to my head. no one should have to eat that. except maybe minorities.

Costco has skinless boneless chicken breast for $2 a pound. I just ate some

Please please tell me were you live.

[Chad B]

no you're wrong about where i'm from in all guesses and 3lbs. uncooked chicken does not yield 3lbs of cooked food. you're prolly talking about one of those nasty ass whole dressed chickens with the bones and skin and shit- ick that shit is for pleb's. i wouldn't eat that if you put a gun to my head. no one should have to eat that. except maybe minorities.

EUROPE

[J.S.N.]

europe's a big place. you can't just guess the whole continent.

[mcpeepants]

It is not better, but not as bad a genocide, hence the better off.

It is all bad, to bad the world is the way it is

To bad the world can sit back and watch this going on without intervening.

Again give me numbers to compare the why the genocide and oppression of the past. I agree the world needs to do more but shooting people doesn't solve problems. Simple measures could help change Africa dramatically. Free mosquito nets, free malaria treatment, AIDS education and treatment, better irrigation and farming techniques will help the continent more than bullets will. Also, aid must be direct to the people not to the corrupt governments.

[Phreak101]

Again give me numbers to compare the why the genocide and oppression of the past. I agree the world needs to do more but shooting people doesn't solve problems. Simple measures could help change Africa dramatically. Free mosquito nets, free malaria treatment, AIDS education and treatment, better irrigation and farming techniques will help the continent more than bullets will. Also, aid must be direct to the people not to the corrupt governments.

For once, totally agree

[Kärnfysikern]

As I understand it, Denmark and Sweden have had a rather large "sex slave" trade going on there for years. Why not fix the problems in your own backyard first...remember the cautionary tale about those who live in glass houses?

Relevance??

large is a very relative term. Large as in it exists. In the northern sweden border towns against finland there are plenty of russian hookers ect.

But how does that compare to mass genocide in africa? Sending troops to africa would not interfere with police work in sweden.

BTW I seem to remember a country with pretty high violent crime rates that still run around playing world police

[Kärnfysikern]

Communism forgets that life is individual. Capitalism forgets that life is social, and the kingdom of brotherhood is found neither in the thesis of communism nor the antithesis of capitalism but in a higher synthesis. It is found in a higher synthesis that combines the truths of both.
-- Martin Luther King Jr.

[Phreak101]

I'm with you also. I think there should be a flat tax rate. The only problem is in the US there are special tax laws. Like the ones for investors. Money made from capital gains (i.e. investments) get special tax breaks. This is great for rich people because the majority of their income doesn't come from wages, it comes from things investments.

Hell, there is like $300 billion dollars a year in tax fraud, most of it coming from corporations and rich individuals and they are almost never prosecuted. I think much more should be done to prosecute these people. The average working class poor person is three times more likely to be audited than a wealthy person ($100k+ annual salary) even though the wealthy person is like 100x more like to commit tax fraud. The funny thing is, there are less and less audits taking place among the rich. Why is that?

You make a very good point about flat tax rates, however it's not just "rich people", it's people who have money because they are business owners. The fallacy here is that the very same tax laws instituted to help the middle class are hurting the middle class because they don't have the write off's business owner's do.

If you make more than $75,000 a year in the U.S., you are taxed at 38%. That is assinine. That means I work from January to April to pay my taxes, and I'm supposed to believe some democrat telling me that the "rich" need to be taxed more??

Flat tax all the way, very good quote by MLK btw. Kinda puts our heated debate tor est, doesn't it.

[Logan13]

Relevance??

large is a very relative term. Large as in it exists. In the northern sweden border towns against finland there are plenty of russian hookers ect.

But how does that compare to mass genocide in africa? Sending troops to africa would not interfere with police work in sweden.

BTW I seem to remember a country with pretty high violent crime rates that still run around playing world police

As opposed to a country that does nothing except point fingers? So now you want to send troops into Africa, eh. Why don't you start by sending in the Swedish army. Let you pansies pull some of the weight for once......... As for revelance, as I have said before, I will share the finger-pointing wealth with the rest of the members' country of origin in here. Do not like it when the spotlight is turned on mother sweden, do ya? Regardless, you are still my favorite pacifist.

[Kärnfysikern]

As opposed to a country that does nothing except point fingers? So now you want to send troops into Africa, eh. Why don't you start by sending in the Swedish army. Let you pansies pull some of the weight for once......... As for revelance, as I have said before, I will share the finger-pointing wealth with the rest of the members' country of origin in here. Do not like it when the spotlight is turned on mother sweden, do ya? Regardless, you are still my favorite pacifist.

Well sweden has peacekeepers in the middle east and in africa and our army is very well trained. Im sure bouncer could have verified that since I seem to remember he has worked with swedish un tropps.

I dont mind anyone pointing fingers at my country since we are far less hypocritical than the countries I point my finger at I support sending tropps into all kinds of peacekeeping missions. I dont support stupid wars

[Logan13]

Well sweden has peacekeepers in the middle east and in africa and our army is very well trained. Im sure bouncer could have verified that since I seem to remember he has worked with swedish un tropps.

I dont mind anyone pointing fingers at my country since we are far less hypocritical than the countries I point my finger at I support sending tropps into all kinds of peacekeeping missions. I dont support stupid wars

That would not be a peacekeeping mission. These African warlords have alot to loose financially, they will resist. When they resist, the Swedish army will have to resort to more than name calling to protect themselves. Although they will most definately have other nation's troops with them since we all know that they will not go in alone, no matter how "right" they thought their plight was.

[scriptfactory]

You make a very good point about flat tax rates, however it's not just "rich people", it's people who have money because they are business owners. The fallacy here is that the very same tax laws instituted to help the middle class are hurting the middle class because they don't have the write off's business owner's do.

If you make more than $75,000 a year in the U.S., you are taxed at 38%. That is assinine. That means I work from January to April to pay my taxes, and I'm supposed to believe some democrat telling me that the "rich" need to be taxed more??

That's pretty much what I was referring to. I am not an expert in taxes but it seems to me there are big problems there that need to be resolved.

Flat tax all the way, very good quote by MLK btw. Kinda puts our heated debate tor est, doesn't it.

Pretty much, right? Too bad neither of us are smart enough to know how to create that perfect society. I believe it can happen, but not any time soon...

[Prada]

Good post

Thanks, just clarifying some rudimentry notions.

[Prada]

This thread has gone on a few tangents.........
I think we(the west) are quite ignorant as to the history and what has been going on in Africa which all commenced back in the days of impearlism and expansionism. In some cases these colonies were redrawn and societies segmented. Even Kashmir is a perfect example, albeit in Asia. Yet we never fully comprehended these societies or cultures and now we are trying to get into something we are completly oblivious to and in some cases forcefully so. Samething was done with Clinton and Rwanda. I do not believe peace keepers are neccessairly the answer.

[Chad B]

Well sweden has peacekeepers in the middle east and in africa and our army is very well trained. Im sure bouncer could have verified that since I seem to remember he has worked with swedish un tropps.

I dont mind anyone pointing fingers at my country since we are far less hypocritical than the countries I point my finger at I support sending tropps into all kinds of peacekeeping missions. I dont support stupid wars

The point of all my replies is that nobody should be pointing fingers, all of our Governments are corrupt.

USA has to play world police because we are the world power and that comes with responsibility. I think we could be doing a better job but none the less if it wasn’t for us all of Europe would be under Hitler Germany. We helped stop genocide in Bosina, Rwanda...and a lot of other stuff.

I don’t agree or disagree with the Irack War because I don’t know the true facts, but I do know that if the USA feels threatened by any country the USA will kick there ass. The USA blew Irack away faster than lighting without any substantial number of American casualties, the occupation is where the American Causalities came in, trying to create them a free Government. The truth is that if Irack becomes a self standing free government history will see Bush as a hero and all the Bush bashers will be forgotten.

Is liberating a country stupid? Even if some don’t want it, what about the few who do? I just love that bravehart movie “FREDOMMMMMMMM…

[scriptfactory]

USA has to play world police because we are the world power and that comes with responsibility. I think we could be doing a better job but none the less if it wasn’t for us all of Europe would be under Hitler Germany. We helped stop genocide in Bosina, Rwanda...and a lot of other stuff.

I just have to respond to this real quick. Hitler was already on his way down. The Russians had taken care of a very big part of the war, the US just resolved things more quickly. Europe was never in danger of Hitler rule because Hitler was a really crappy military commander who thought he was the next Alexander.

[RA]

I just have to respond to this real quick. Hitler was already on his way down. The Russians had taken care of a very big part of the war, the US just resolved things more quickly. Europe was never in danger of Hitler rule because Hitler was a really crappy military commander who thought he was the next Alexander.

btw, this thread is turning into another America bash.

[Kärnfysikern]

Although they will most definately have other nation's troops with them since we all know that they will not go in alone, no matter how "right" they thought their plight was.

Once again you fail to grasp the concept of size. A country of swedens size doesnt run around and do international things alone. Simply because we are only a country of 9 million inhabitants.

I think we could be doing a better job but none the less if it wasn’t for us all of Europe would be under Hitler Germany.

I se this mentioned just about every time europe and america is discussed. Withour Russia hitler would have won, without the americans europe would have been stalins playing ground, without UK hitler might have won and so on...

But the russians did do the brunt of the work, most of the killing and certainly most of the dying in defeating nazi germany. One mad dictator lost and another mad **** won. Europes biggest debt to america is that it put a stop to stalins expansion. But russia gets the credit for defeating germany.

I don’t agree or disagree with the Irack War because I don’t know the true facts, but I do know that if the USA feels threatened by any country the USA will kick there ass. The USA blew Irack away faster than lighting without any substantial number of American casualties, the occupation is where the American Causalities came in, trying to create them a free Government. The truth is that if Irack becomes a self standing free government history will see Bush as a hero and all the Bush bashers will be forgotten.

Well I for one hope iraq will turn out well. But it doesnt look like it will anytime soon...

Is liberating a country stupid? Even if some don’t want it, what about the few who do? I just love that bravehart movie “FREDOMMMMMMMM…

Well I dont think its wrong if there is a realistic chanse of success. But iraq seems far less stable now than under sadam. Now it seems to be close to civil war and terrorist breeding ground number one. If america leaves iraq will be Irans playing ground, if america stays its going to be a long and grinding resource drain and a constant target for fanatics.

[Kärnfysikern]

I just have to respond to this real quick. Hitler was already on his way down. The Russians had taken care of a very big part of the war, the US just resolved things more quickly. Europe was never in danger of Hitler rule because Hitler was a really crappy military commander who thought he was the next Alexander.

But no america would also have meant that stalin would have added a few more countries to his union. I think living under stalin would have been worse than living under hitler.