A theory I cooked up; Semi-Permanent Fat loss?

[SV-1]

Great job KOM, as always.

[kingofmasters]

WOW...very nice touch on a great thread!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks --> I should probably take out all the spelling errors though!

[rambo]

Here are two excel spreadsheets I made to help people plan their DNP cycles.


DNP - Single Time Dosing: This sheet is for when the time between all doses is going to be the same (IE every 12, 24, or 36 hours). It's easier and faster to use.

DNP - Multi Time Dosing: This sheet is for when the time between doses is going to vary (IE second dose in 24 hours, third dose in 12 hours, fourth dose in 36 hours). Because every dose time needs to be entered individually it takes a little more time to use.

DNP Spreadsheets.zip

SV, that is one of the best posts of the month. Outstanding job.

Same goes for you KOM.

A big thank you to you both.

[SV-1]

SV, that is one of the best posts of the month. Outstanding job.

Same goes for you KOM.

A big thank you to you both.

Thanks bro, glad I was able to contribute. These are the final drafts (as of now) of the only spreadsheets I've ever made (so I had to learn as I went).

[iNvid]

KOM do you have anything to add about your temperature? I read somewhere that if it hits 100degrees, stop the DNP and drink water like theres no tommorow. The read also stated that your temp should not only stay the same while on DNP but it might drop 1 degrees aswell since you are giving heat out.

[iNvid]

Bump

[TheChosenOne]

Again I have to say this is one of the most thought provoking threads on this board. I am just glad I caught it on the first day because I would hate to spend an hour reading through 7 pages of posts all at one time. Big ups to KOM and SV

[Mallet]

As always KOM, very informative post! I'm glad you've decided to donate your body to science once again...

[SV-1]

Ok boys, any idea if this here "antidote" to DNP would work, or how to go about making it (been curious about this for awhile).

From one PDF.

04-8300 0.5 mg
Rat Anti-
Dinitrophenol
00761089
RAT MONOCLONAL ANTIBODY TO DINITROPHENOL (DNP)
FORM:
Liquid, 0.5 mg in 0.5 ml. This purified antibody is in 10 mM phosphatebuffered
saline (PBS), pH 7.4, containing 0.05% sodium azide as a
preservative.
PROTEIN CONCENTRATION:
1.0 mg/ml. The protein concentration is determined based on an E (1%) =
14.0 at 280 nm.
SPECIFICITY:
This antibody reacts with dinitrophenol.
PROTEIN DESCRIPTION:
CLONE: LO-DNP-2
ISOTYPE: IgG1, kappa
STORAGE:
Store at 2-8oC for up to one month. For long term, store at -20oC. Avoid
repeatedly freeze and thaw.
-------------------------------------------------------------
REFERENCES:
1) Bazin H.; Prot. Biol. Fluids, 1982, Peeters E. ed., 29th colloquium 1981,
Pergamon Press Oxford and N.Y. : 615-618.



From another PDF.

04-8888 200 µg
Rat Anti-
Dinitrophenol
00450918
RAT MONOCLONAL ANTIBODY TO DINITROPHENOL (DNP)
FORM:
200 µl liquid. This purified antibody is in 10 mM phosphate-buffered saline
(PBS), pH 7.4, containing 0.05% sodium azide as a preservative. The
antibody concentration is 1.0 mg/ml.
SPECIFICITY:
This antibody reacts with dinitrophenol.
CLONE: LO-DNP-30 ISOTYPE: IgE, Kappa
STORAGE:
Stored at 2-8°C for up to one month. For long term, store at -20°C. Do not
repeatedly freeze and thaw.
-------------------------------------------------------------
REFERENCES:
Bazin H.; Prot. Biol. Fluids, 1982, Peeters E. ed., 29th colloquium 1981,
Pergamon Press Oxford and N.Y. : 615-618.

[kbrkbr]

Does anyone know if DNP shows up on bloodwork and, if so, how and for how long?

Thanks muchly

[Da Bull]

Interesting SV...I see your next project in the horizon.

[iNvid]

KOM do you have anything to add about your temperature? I read somewhere that if it hits 100degrees, stop the DNP and drink water like theres no tommorow. The read also stated that your temp should not only stay the same while on DNP but it might drop 1 degrees aswell since you are giving heat out.

Anyone know?

[RATM]

This is a fantastic post and i am very intreagued by DNP . I did a google search for DNP and found nothing for what we are talking about in the first 5 pages so then i gave up. What does DNP stand for????

great post KOM!

[iNvid]

This is a fantastic post and i am very intreagued by DNP . I did a google search for DNP and found nothing for what we are talking about in the first 5 pages so then i gave up. What does DNP stand for????

great post KOM!

2, 4-Dinitrophenol

[TheChosenOne]

I placed my DNP order today. As I said earlier I will be going on vacation until the 15th but after then I will get this started up with before/during/after pictures all according to the outline laid out in this thread. I will be the guinea pig. I will be running IGF for part of the time also but most likely only on the last 4-7 days simply to prepare for PCT from my cutting prop cycle. I am running the IGF for muscle retention during PCT. I happened to stumble accross a bottle of Biotest's T2 today that I had stowed away for the last year. I will start a new thread in both the diet and member results forum when I begin.

[iNvid]

BTW guys my dnp JUST came in. After 20 fedex trucks drove by my house, one finally stopped =D Gonna be gathering my supps tommorow and get everything figured out. If KOM or sv-1 could comment on my question a few posts up, that would be delightful.

[SV-1]

BTW guys my dnp JUST came in. After 20 fedex trucks drove by my house, one finally stopped =D Gonna be gathering my supps tommorow and get everything figured out. If KOM or sv-1 could comment on my question a few posts up, that would be delightful.

When I run DNP and T3 my temp is usually right around 99.5-99.8, so if mine hit 100 I wouldn't be too worried.

[iNvid]

When I run DNP and T3 my temp is usually right around 99.5-99.8, so if mine hit 100 I wouldn't be too worried.

So what should a first timer do if it hits 100? Stop and drink water?

[hatchblack]

Awesome...awesome post.

TOO MUCH INFORMATION TO INGEST

[hatchblack]

On a side note...what do you guys think of the idea of DNP post cycle during PCT and its ability to regulate T4 to T3 conversion more gradually...?

Why did I think that T3 is so catabolic...?

And we are in agreement that you don't really need T2/3 on a 10 day DNP cycle right...?

[iNvid]

On a side note...what do you guys think of the idea of DNP post cycle during PCT and its ability to regulate T4 to T3 conversion more gradually...?

Why did I think that T3 is so catabolic...?

And we are in agreement that you don't really need T2/3 on a 10 day DNP cycle right...?

Yes on the 10 day no T3 thing. I dont know about the PCT. I'll let someone more educated in that field answer it.

[TheChosenOne]

Yes on the 10 day no T3 thing. I dont know about the PCT. I'll let someone more educated in that field answer it.

I posed this same question months ago and received no response. I believe Fonz has some info on this (Ironfist made the post). I dont know of anyone on this board that has used it in this manner though. Maybe some of the DNP vets will have more word.

[georgie24]

wow great thread

[m16a2]

Same here...but a low dose tho.

Same here. I have done many many cycles of DNP , but I think I could really benefit from it, plus I want to try it with T3 supplementation.

[Da Bull]

I posed this same question months ago and received no response. I believe Fonz has some info on this (Ironfist made the post). I dont know of anyone on this board that has used it in this manner though. Maybe some of the DNP vets will have more word.

DNP for pct is whay KOM suggested to me early on in the thread.I posed the question asking if I should run the short cycle at the end of my current cycle,and said said run it in the middle of pct.

[m16a2]

DNP for pct is whay KOM suggested to me early on in the thread.I posed the question asking if I should run the short cycle at the end of my current cycle,and said said run it in the middle of pct.

No bro, PCT is not the time for DNP . I have done with both ways but the two times I used it during PCT were mistakes... your body is in a catabolic state during PCT, it is not the time to introduce something that will restrict calorie intake the way DNP does.

[SKiN]

No bro, PCT is not the time for DNP. I have done with both ways but the two times I used it during PCT were mistakes... your body is in a catabolic state during PCT, it is not the time to introduce something that will restrict calorie intake the way DNP does.

Good point......... KOM?

[kingofmasters]

No bro, PCT is not the time for DNP. I have done with both ways but the two times I used it during PCT were mistakes... your body is in a catabolic state during PCT, it is not the time to introduce something that will restrict calorie intake the way DNP does.

If anything; DNP upregulates calorie INTAKE!! (DNP-cravings)
The trick offcourse is to maintain a healthy ratio of nutrients eating
(so not chocolate donuts or the like ).

Second DNP has anti-catabolic properties;

I have a hypothesis why people rarely experience much muscle loss on DNP even when not maintaining a high-protein intake and seeing working out is hard on especially a high dose that doesn't help with maintaining muscle mass as well.

My Hypothesis:
It is known that the body can only catabolize a certain amount of muscle before trying to maintain muscle mass, if protein-intake is high enough
(it has to do with the exact same evolutionary mechanism why fat loss is so hard: On this board it is called "starvation-mode" so I will call it that...)
DNP makes the Natrium/kalium pump so ineffecient that (normally it would take 70 mV/-70 mv for a standardpotential to cause action) oxidizing proteins will not be "fast enough" to deliver the energy needed (remember 100 grams of protein under optimal conditions will only yield 55 gram of glucose and even with enzymes which act as a katalysator for the needed reactions it will still be a relatively slow process!), offcourse Glucose/glycogen-reserves will be first, then Fats (only fatty acids can be used as energy for the brain, glycerol can not), and then proteins (which can also come from food-intake).

Although I never used DNP for PCT, I can really see how it can be helpful, but just IN THEORY...

And 100-200 mg per day would not make you feel too bad; but then again it is all MOTIVATION; if you are the type that during PCT feels "bad" and "tired" has trouble eating and working out right (lack of motivation!)
then DNP during PCT is not something for you!

TheChosenOne:
I don't think both IGF and DNP should be used for PCT;
I would just choose one of both!

SV-1:
The only thing remotely helpful is a Saline-solution, it is what in hospitals is used for people who have been intoxicated with certain compounds.
I doubt it will be enough if you seriously are "overdosed", remember in such a case!
--> Keep Drinking Water!
Call an ambulance
Explain to the doctor what you are taking
(keep prints of these threads on hand!)
DO NOT: TRY TO COOL YOURSELF: if you are over 39,5 degrees Celcius
(I know this sounds stupid: But in case of serious overheating,
sudden cold water, cold air by a fan etc. will make the coretemperature of your body even higher!).

The described "anti-body"; is not an antidote!
DNP in Genetics-research is used an a "Marker" to see where certain bases/proteins/RNA's have gone (with colours ).
What you have their is an antibody for DNP in Rats, it is probably used to see where the template string is to the DNP-marker
(propably the "primer" --> first 3 bases of wanted DNA-sample).
(Anyone who has to do/is involved with Genetics will understand this story )

But I doubt if you stick to the 200 mg doses and the described guidelines that you will experience any serious sides
--> As with any medicine, if you are really not feeling too good by taking it then DISCONTINUE IMMEDIATELY!!

Greets
Kingofmasters

[TheChosenOne]

TheChosenOne:
I don't think both IGF and DNP should be used for PCT;
I would just choose one of both!


Greets
Kingofmasters

I am not planning to run them collectively. I will be running DNP the last 3-4 weeks of my cycle and then beginning IGF during PCT to try to prevent muscle loss. I wouldnt think there should be any issues with this plan. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[kingofmasters]

I am not planning to run them collectively. I will be running DNP the last 3-4 weeks of my cycle and then beginning IGF during PCT to try to prevent muscle loss. I wouldnt think there should be any issues with this plan. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I wouldn't do DNP on a cycle!
DNP is best done alone!
Especially because the motivation to train etc. goes away on DNP!

Try doing it 2 weeks after finishing PCT (that way you will know how much muscle you gained and what your fatpercentage is when you finished and thus then lower that percentage!).

Greets
Kingofmasters

[kingofmasters]

I was thinking (maybe any one want to try it and update us on it!?).

DNP should be perfect for spot-removing
(better than cardio since it is much longer active).

Why not take a Clen +Yohimbine Injection (alpha + beta antagonist) or MUCH better --> Phosphaditylcholine-injections (Lipostabil) to free fatty acids from certain spots, in theory very effective in combo with DNP, which should burn the freed fat perfectly! (Lovehandles anyone? )

Greets
Kingofmasters

[w_rballs]

I was thinking (maybe any one want to try it and update us on it!?).

DNP should be perfect for spot-removing
(better than cardio since it is much longer active).

Why not take a Clen +Yohimbine Injection (alpha + beta antagonist) or MUCH better --> Phosphaditylcholine-injections (Lipostabil) to free fatty acids from certain spots, in theory very effective in combo with DNP, which should burn the freed fat perfectly! (Lovehandles anyone? )

Greets
Kingofmasters

u can inject clen?

[m16a2]

If anything; DNP upregulates calorie INTAKE!! (DNP-cravings)
The trick offcourse is to maintain a healthy ratio of nutrients eating
(so not chocolate donuts or the like ).

Second DNP has anti-catabolic properties;

I have a hypothesis why people rarely experience much muscle loss on DNP even when not maintaining a high-protein intake and seeing working out is hard on especially a high dose that doesn't help with maintaining muscle mass as well.

My Hypothesis:
It is known that the body can only catabolize a certain amount of muscle before trying to maintain muscle mass, if protein-intake is high enough
(it has to do with the exact same evolutionary mechanism why fat loss is so hard: On this board it is called "starvation-mode" so I will call it that...)
DNP makes the Natrium/kalium pump so ineffecient that (normally it would take 70 mV/-70 mv for a standardpotential to cause action) oxidizing proteins will not be "fast enough" to deliver the energy needed (remember 100 grams of protein under optimal conditions will only yield 55 gram of glucose and even with enzymes which act as a katalysator for the needed reactions it will still be a relatively slow process!), offcourse Glucose/glycogen-reserves will be first, then Fats (only fatty acids can be used as energy for the brain, glycerol can not), and then proteins (which can also come from food-intake).

Although I never used DNP for PCT, I can really see how it can be helpful, but just IN THEORY...

And 100-200 mg per day would not make you feel too bad; but then again it is all MOTIVATION; if you are the type that during PCT feels "bad" and "tired" has trouble eating and working out right (lack of motivation!)
then DNP during PCT is not something for you!

TheChosenOne:
I don't think both IGF and DNP should be used for PCT;
I would just choose one of both!

SV-1:
The only thing remotely helpful is a Saline-solution, it is what in hospitals is used for people who have been intoxicated with certain compounds.
I doubt it will be enough if you seriously are "overdosed", remember in such a case!
--> Keep Drinking Water!
Call an ambulance
Explain to the doctor what you are taking
(keep prints of these threads on hand!)
DO NOT: TRY TO COOL YOURSELF: if you are over 39,5 degrees Celcius
(I know this sounds stupid: But in case of serious overheating,
sudden cold water, cold air by a fan etc. will make the coretemperature of your body even higher!).

The described "anti-body"; is not an antidote!
DNP in Genetics-research is used an a "Marker" to see where certain bases/proteins/RNA's have gone (with colours ).
What you have their is an antibody for DNP in Rats, it is probably used to see where the template string is to the DNP-marker
(propably the "primer" --> first 3 bases of wanted DNA-sample).
(Anyone who has to do/is involved with Genetics will understand this story )

But I doubt if you stick to the 200 mg doses and the described guidelines that you will experience any serious sides
--> As with any medicine, if you are really not feeling too good by taking it then DISCONTINUE IMMEDIATELY!!

Greets
Kingofmasters

KOM, there might be some language barriers here or you need to research more...

DNP makes the Natrium/kalium pump so ineffecient that (normally it would take 70 mV/-70 mv for a standardpotential to cause action) oxidizing proteins will not be "fast enough" to deliver the energy needed (remember 100 grams of protein under optimal conditions will only yield 55 gram of glucose and even with enzymes which act as a katalysator for the needed reactions it will still be a relatively slow process!),

I guess you meant the NA/K pump, sodium/potassium. I think you are talking about the threshold for a synapse, but I am not sure. Either way it doesn't make sense to me, because we are talking about ATP conversion/utilization when we discuss DNP. There are many different ways that the threshold is reached, membrane diffusion for one, but the NA/K pump is used after a synapse to get the excess NA+ out of the cell to restore the homeostasis. Also, a katalysator... does that mean catalyst? I do not know of any specific enzymes which enhance the production of glucose from proteins... Obviously there is a loss of energy when proteins are converted into usable ready energy by breaking down the amines from the amino acids, but I hardly think this is specific to DNP either.

offcourse Glucose/glycogen-reserves will be first, then Fats (only fatty acids can be used as energy for the brain, glycerol can not), and then proteins (which can also come from food-intake).

This is one reason I said you might research some more.. Yes glucose will be first, then glycogen, but fats are not used as energy by the brain. The brain is composed of fatty tissue, but it is fueled by GLUCOSE. This is one reason you want to keep simple sugars in your system when you are using DNP since it renders the ATP conversion useless.

The point I wanted to make is that I do not believe that DNP should be used in the PCT. It should be a seperate cycle of its own. Your objective during PCT should be maintaining all that mass you worked for during your cycle, not cutting it yet. DNP of all available choices poses the most risk to your newly created LBM. I speak from experience on this subject and it also makes perfect sense. Its anti-catabolic nature is negated by the catabolic state your body is in during PCT due to the reduced androgenic /anabolic hormones and a suppressed HPTA. Waiting a few weeks and then using it would be a safer bet.

[kingofmasters]

You are right about the mechanism of action of DNP ; the NA/K pump ineffeciency is what makes Usnic Acid so effective...

Fatty acids can be used by the brain, by conversion to Ketones!

I apologize for any inconvenience...

The Language barriers are hard since Beta-studies are here performed in Latin terms
(when somebody asked about diagnosing thyroid, I discussed the Iodium-131 methods, while Mallet later said Iodine-131... --> This poses some problems).

Greets
Kingofmasters

[kingofmasters]

u can inject clen?

Only if brewing it yourself or when having a sterile solution...
(be careful about the concentration though since we sometimes see
2000 mcg/ml solutions out there...)

I thought there was a ready made Yohimbine+Clen injection made by an Underground Lab?

Anyone know it?

[iNvid]

Only if brewing it yourself or when having a sterile solution...
(be careful about the concentration though since we sometimes see
2000 mcg/ml solutions out there...)

I thought there was a ready made Yohimbine+Clen injection made by an Underground Lab?

Anyone know it?

Uhh I've been researching clen for months and I've never heard of injecting the stuff.

[inheritmylife]

Uhh I've been researching clen for months and I've never heard of injecting the stuff.

Its called Helios by Generic Labs(I think). It is clen and yohimbine hcl.

[m16a2]

You are right about the mechanism of action of DNP ; the NA/K pump ineffeciency is what makes Usnic Acid so effective...

Fatty acids can be used by the brain, by conversion to Ketones!

I apologize for any inconvenience...

The Language barriers are hard since Beta-studies are here performed in Latin terms
(when somebody asked about diagnosing thyroid, I discussed the Iodium-131 methods, while Mallet later said Iodine-131... --> This poses some problems).

Greets
Kingofmasters

No problem, I just got confused. I figured it has something to do with the fact your dutch, so obviously some confusion is going to occur.

[m16a2]

Fatty acids can be used by the brain, by conversion to Ketones!


Greets
Kingofmasters

I'm not sure if your saying this, but I think your saying that fats can be broken down into usable energy (glucose) and the byproducts are ketones. Regardless, the brain feeds on glucose.

[kingofmasters]

No problem, I just got confused. I figured it has something to do with the fact your dutch, so obviously some confusion is going to occur.

what is wrong with the dutch ?