The Unofficial "Ask a Muslim" Thread.

**gst528i** · 01-02-2009, 09:58 PM

will take of those site links as asked but you will have to edit yours too since you quoted me and that will stay unless you edit it. DID NOT MEAN ANY DISRESPECT

**BuffedGuy** · 01-02-2009, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by gst528i

will take of those site links as asked but you will have to edit yours too since you quoted me and that will stay unless you edit it. DID NOT MEAN ANY DISRESPECT

You have no reason to apologize. It was I who got a bit riled up. Forgive me, my friend.

I have deleted the link from what I quoted from you. Please eliminate it from your post, God Willing. It is just full of lies and sensationalized stuff. It's like posting a link to a KKK website about the Jewish Talmud...it's just complete garbage.

Thanks!

**amcon** · 01-02-2009, 10:07 PM

how do muslims see Jesus or isa?

why did muhammad premit christans to live under his protection for money? why not eliminate them?

two part question - wasnt the kissing and circling the metor a pagan ritual? the pilgrimage to mecca (even his last pilgrimage) why did Muhammad perform the pagan customs of the kissing and touching the metor?

what does sura 5:5 say?

i will say to you may only the truth leave our lips, not from man and his doing but from one and only one God.

thank you for your time

**amcon** · 01-02-2009, 10:09 PM

how many times was muhammad married? and were the ages of his women listed?

**BuffedGuy** · 01-02-2009, 10:11 PM

I will God-Willing answer everyone's question(s), as it is my religious duty to do so. Just please be patient. If you have another question (and I haven't answered the first one yet), don't let that stop you from posting the question now (rather than later). I'll get around to it as soon as I can, God-Willing.

But again, please keep it cordial. I am enjoying the thread and the great manners of people on this forum. I hope we can continue it in this same way, God-Willing.

EDIT: Isn't someone going to ask why I keep repeating the word "God-Willing" so many times??? OK, crud, I'm adding another question to the bank loll...OK, I'll answer it if someone wants me to, God Willing.

**amcon** · 01-02-2009, 10:21 PM

ok, why God willing?

**Voice of Reason** · 01-02-2009, 10:22 PM

Makes sense... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3Eam5FX58

**gst528i** · 01-02-2009, 10:22 PM

Not sure if you missed it but i needed clarification on one thing i posted right before i said i will remove the links.
And yes Whats with good willing

**Amorphic** · 01-02-2009, 10:24 PM

why do almost all forms of religion result in a fanatical following that often results in violence and bloodshed?

the west demonizes muslims for this especially but im certainly not going to point the finger at any groups here

**gst528i** · 01-02-2009, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

Makes sense... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3Eam5FX58

what was the reason for thie video?

You know there would alot less injuries and deaths in here america if these rules were followed by crackers lol ... Including less domestics calls.

**Lemonada8** · 01-02-2009, 10:28 PM

Buffedguy thanks for all you have done, people fear the unkown and this helps clear up some issues...

**Voice of Reason** · 01-02-2009, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by gst528i

what was the reason for thie video?

You know there would alot less injuries and deaths in here america if these rules were followed by crackers lol ... Including less domestics calls.

You answered your question it was to have "alot less injuries and deaths in here america if these rules were followed by crackers lol ... Including less domestics calls"...

**StoneGRMI** · 01-02-2009, 10:33 PM

Why did the largest base of Muslims and Arabs choose to live in Michigan? I've never asked any of my friends here that as I was never asked to ask a Muslim anything.

**BgMc31** · 01-02-2009, 10:43 PM

Very enlightening thread! The question I have is why the mistreatment of women in Islam? By mistreatment I mean women are punished much more severely than men for the same crimes. Also women aren't allowed many of the same rights and freedoms of men according to Islamic law. Why is that?

**auslifta** · 01-02-2009, 10:52 PM

^^^ i asked previously, i think he is working on it

**gst528i** · 01-02-2009, 11:01 PM

I think buffedguy had to go ice his fingers.... either that or his keyboard said get the **** off me

**j4ever41** · 01-02-2009, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

Makes sense... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3Eam5FX58

makes no sense to me.

**Voice of Reason** · 01-02-2009, 11:27 PM

me neither... (very dry sarcastic humor alert!)

**BuffedGuy** · 01-02-2009, 11:59 PM

Sorry guys, I will answer questions shortly. I have to study a bit in between as well. So let me knock out another 10 pages and then I'll be back.

As for the video that was just posted, know that it is from MEMRI, which is headed by a former Israeli Mossad officer...They are known for their blatant mistranslations, selective quoting, etc. This is one of the reasons why I requested the users not to post outside links. If there is a particular issue, please address it in your own words, not just post an inflammatory link or video.

Trust me, my dear colleagues, we can do similar things with Judaism, Christianity, and every other religion out there. It is not difficult to do. Just gerrymander clips together in a montage, and you can twist things dramatically.

I know this post of mine is vague, but I will post an in-depth discussion of that video that was posted. For now, I will say that wife-beating is not at all enjoined in Islam. Prophet Muhammad [s] never hit his wives, and he [s] advised those women who had abusive husbands to file for divorce.

Having said that, I will give a detailed explanation shortly, after I finish ten more pages. It is extremely hard to study on this keto diet! But I need to get rid of this medical school blubber I've accumulated. Good news is I have lost 21 pounds, woo hoo! I am aiming for another 30 more although that might be a bit quixotic. Let's see.

God is Most Great.

In the Care of the Lord and Your Friend in Need of Forgiveness,
-Saladin.

**BuffedGuy** · 01-03-2009, 01:43 AM

Peace be unto you, T_Own.

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Originally Posted by T_Own

i'm really not religious at all, but wouldn't it be offensive for someone who is not muslim to pray to the muslim god for anything? and if the same man prayed to his own god for the muslim man, wouldn't he find that offensive or worthless to pray to a different god?

This is actually a very unfortunate misunderstanding amongst Christians and Westerners in general. There is a misconception that there is a Christian God and a Muslim God. Rather, we Muslims believe in the same God as the Jews and the Christians. In the same way that the Christians believe in the same God as the Jews. Nobody ever really says that there is a Jewish God and a Christian God.

Just like Christians believe Christianity abrogated and superseded Judaism, so too do Muslims believe that Islam abrogated and superseded Christianity. It is the same line of Prophets we believe and all the same holy books, including the Old and New Testament.

The fact that the Muslims worship the same God is mentioned in the Quran itself. God commands the Muslims:

"Do not argue with the People of the Book (Jews and Christians), except in the kindest manner--aside from those of them who inflict injury upon you--and say: 'We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our God and your God is One; and it is to Him we submit." (Quran, 29:46)

Notice that the Quran clearly says: "Our God and your God is One."

Unfortunately, some ignorant people mock Muslims by insulting the name "Allah", which is simply the Arabic word for God. Some have even spread the rumor that Allah is some moon god or some pagan god. This is not only very insulting and hurtful to us, but the irony is that Jesus [as] himself called God by the name "Allah" and NOT "God".

Jesus [as] spoke Armaic, which is the sister language of Arabic. Reverend Mark D. Roberts, an Harvard trained Christian scholar, says:

Jesus' spoke Aramaic, the common language of Galilee during his lifetime...

http://markdroberts.com/htmfiles/res...uslanguage.htm

You may read that article for further details.

Anyways, in Armaic, the word for God is......*drumroll please*......ALLAH!

We could make this a lengthy topic, but I'm just going to make this easy, God-Willing. Just watch this clip from the movie "Passion of the Christ":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H9_vOl5klM

If you want to skip all the intro stuff, just forward to 1:19....

Quite clearly, Jesus [as] says:

al teeth khalone heefe Munahma bi hoda kashta bi Allah

As a side-note, Muslims argue that this phrase translates to: "You must not be afraid. Muhammad will come and teach about Allah." In other words, they argue that it is a prophecy for Prophet Muhammad [s] to come after Prophet Jesus [as] to continue his mission. They argue that the word "Munahma" is "Muhammad" in Armaic or Syriac.

However, since I try to be fair, I must say that I haven't looked into this "Munahma" thing, so I don't know how much credence I'm going to give to it right now. But what I *am* confident in is the fact that Jesus [as] most definitely called God as "Allah". Certainly not "God".

Another Muslim brother posted in this thread and said "call God whatever you want...we call Him Allah..." I actually disagree with this. I am going to go a step further and say that we should call God by his proper name, which is Allah. That is what Prophet Muhammad [s] called God and what Prophet Jesus [as] did, and what the Prophets before him did.

It is disputed where the term "God" comes from, but it seems that more sources than not argue that the origins are pagan, originating from the polytheistic predecessors of the Hindus (emphasis mine):

Word origin: God - Our word god goes back via Germanic to Indo-European, in which a corresponding ancestor form meant “invoked one.” The word’s only surviving non-Germanic relative is Sanskrit hu, invoke the gods, a form which appears in the Rig Veda, most ancient of Hindu scriptures: puru-hutas, “much invoked,” epithet of the rain-and-thunder god Indra.

(From READER’S DIGEST, Family Word Finder, page 351) (Originally published by The Reader’s Digest Association, Inc., Pleasantville New York, Montreal; Copyright 1975)

Webster's seems to agree:

Webster's 1913 Dictionary:

\God\ (g[o^]d), n. [AS. god; akin to OS. & D. god, OHG. got, G. gott, Icel. gu[eth], go[eth], Sw. & Dan. gud, Goth. gup, prob. orig. a p. p. from a root appearing in Skr. h[=u], p. p. h[=u]ta, to call upon, invoke, implore. [root]30. Cf. {Goodbye}, {Gospel}, {Gossip}.]

http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/god

So does the Oxford Dictionary (although to be fair it acknowledges that nobody is sure):

Oxford English Dictionary:

"god (gρd). Also 3-4 godd...*glhutó-m has been variously interpreted as ‘what is invoked’ (cf. Skr. puru-hūta ‘much-invoked’, an epithet of Indra) and as ‘what is worshipped by sacrifice’ (cf. Skr. hutá, which occurs in the sense ‘sacrificed to’ as well as in that of ‘offered in sacrifice’). Either of these conjectures is fairly plausible, as they both yield a sense practically coincident with the most obvious definition deducible from the actual use of the word, ‘an object of worship’.

I'm not an etymologist, so I'm not even going to pretend to have any authority in this area. What I am saying though is that our Christian colleagues should ponder on this: that term "Allah"--which sounds so exotic, strange, and heathenish--is actually what Jesus [as] used. And when some Christians mock it, it's offensive, not only to us Muslims but to Christian Arabs. Open up a Bible translated into Arabic:

Genesis 1:1

" Fee al-badi' khalaqa Allahu as-Samaawaat wa al-Ard . . ."

http://mirrorh.com/genesis1.html

But I want to make something very clear: I am not going to do an akido move here and claim that the Christians worship a pagan god. That's outright insulting. No, we all worship the same God. It is injustice if any Muslim makes that claim towards Christians. So what I say is that Muslims should be just with even their opponents (or in this case, their debate partners).

Frankly, I'm not that keep on debating with Christians to begin with, because as I told you, after Islam, I like Christianity the next best.

To wrap up an incredibly rambling post, I say: we worship the same God as Jews and Christians. None of us--neither Jews, Christians, or Muslims--worship a pagan god, and if we want to live in peace and harmony with each other, we should avoid such accusations. (I am not saying that you--T Own--are guilty of this. You have been nothing but courteous.)

EDIT: I only use the word "God" in this thread because I don't want any confusion as to Who I am referring to. Otherwise, I normally use the term "Allah".

In the Care of your Lord Most High,
-Saladin.

**BuffedGuy** · 01-03-2009, 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by T_Own

i'm really not religious at all, but wouldn't it be offensive for someone who is not muslim to pray to the muslim god for anything? and if the same man prayed to his own god for the muslim man, wouldn't he find that offensive or worthless to pray to a different god?

One more point to your post. As Muslims, we do not believe that you have to be Muslim for your invocation/prayer to God to be accepted. In the Quran, it is mentioned that Satan himself made an invocation to God, and God accepted it. Therefore, if God accepted the invocation of Satan, surely it is not unforeseeable that He would accept yours, even if you were a great big sinner. (Not saying you are one.)

OK, I answered your post *finally*. Sorry for the lengthy delay.

May God unite us upon the Straight Path.

In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin

**j4ever41** · 01-03-2009, 02:16 AM

buffedguy thankyou for this thread. My question is what about the honor killings that are reported on? such as a father kills daughter.

**BuffedGuy** · 01-03-2009, 02:42 AM

Originally Posted by j4ever41

buffedguy thankyou for this thread. My question is what about the honor killings that are reported on? such as a father kills daughter.

Thanks for the question. I will answer this question (honor killings) and the one about wife beating tomorrow morning, God Willing. And then the rest of the questions as well, but first those two, since those are more...juicy.

I'm off to bed right now. I'm wasted. You guys have been great. I really appreciate the great way you guys have treated me. I had wrongfully thought that this thread would have turned into hater-ation. Seems like a great forum and I thank you for welcoming me.

Alright, I'm really sleepy...going to hit the sack.

Sleep: the cousin of death.

I testify that there is no deity worthy of worship except God. Allahu Akbar.

**rockinred** · 01-03-2009, 09:34 AM

Buffed Guy,

What are your thoughts of Tetragrammaton and how does it relate to the term Allah? I understand that muslims are of Abrahams seed Ishmael. Which would coincide with what is stated in the scricptures about his seed building a great nation too.

What are your thoughts on the prophecy of the coming of the annointed one? I also don't believe in a triune godhead, as I believe the scriptures don't state this anywhere... but I do believe that Jesus/Yehoshua was more than a prophet as he stated. I too agree that the God of Muslims, Christians, and Jews is one and the same.

**T_Own** · 01-03-2009, 02:26 PM

thanks buffedguy. no problem on the wait

**WOLFCRAFT** · 01-03-2009, 03:50 PM

Edited, have respect or move along.

**rockinred** · 01-03-2009, 05:27 PM

I will tell you what is retarded.... your avy... not because of the upside down cross, it is the person in red and white paint thinking he is cool... looks like a panzy who could get knocked out by a teenager

**MuscleScience** · 01-03-2009, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by WOLFCRAFT

My question... are you guys any less retarded than Christians?

Originally Posted by rockinred

I will tell you what is retarded.... your avy... not because of the upside down cross, it is the person in red and white paint thinking he is cool... looks like a panzy who could get knocked out by a teenager

Lets keep this thread cordial guys, lets not let things get out of hand. This is a very respectful and enlightening thread for those of us who know very little about Islam, such as myself. If something pisses us off lets try to be adults about it and keep and open mind. Intelligent debate is how we learn and discuss controversial issues.

**rockinred** · 01-03-2009, 05:50 PM

MS,

I usually do keep my cool and agree with you... but two things about what he said got me going... A) his most offensive comment is the "retarded" comment, because I lost a 7yr old daughter who was classified as "retarded".... B) why should he come in this thread and start talking smack to others that he has a personal agenda against and think it is ok?

anyhow, I will refrain from taking anymore bait.... I will say this is a pretty cool thread, but I have also seen many, many good threads on all kinds of subjects get plagued with others comments and no one stopped some of the nonsense comments posted on those threads... anyhow, peace and good lifting..

**gst528i** · 01-03-2009, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by wolfcraft

my question... Are you guys any less retarded than christians?

edited ...rather have this thread open than to argue with useless posts.

PT · 01-03-2009, 06:12 PM

ok lets get back to topic here or im closing this down

**BuffedGuy** · 01-03-2009, 07:19 PM

Hey guys, I'm back...

Woke up at like 2 pm haha...*yawn*

Alright, let's get crackin....

**NewMuscle83** · 01-03-2009, 08:13 PM

my bad..

**Amorphic** · 01-03-2009, 08:17 PM

^ no rec drug talk sorry. edit your post please

**Hoggage_54** · 01-03-2009, 08:21 PM

What's a good pickup line to use on a Muslim girl?

**xlxBigSexyxlx** · 01-03-2009, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Hoggage_54

What's a good pickup line to use on a Muslim girl?

Your father must be Osama Bin Laden, because you're da BOMB!

or

OH MY GOSH! I just saw part of your hair, now you're obliged to marry me.

60% of the time, it works everytime

**NewMuscle83** · 01-03-2009, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by Amorphic

^ no rec drug talk sorry. edit your post please

didn't know that counts as rec drug talk..my bad.

**BuffedGuy** · 01-03-2009, 10:12 PM

Peace be unto you, Voice of Reason.

I am going to try to be the voice of reason in this post.

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

Makes sense... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3Eam5FX58

OK, I am now going to deal with the wife-beating issue, God-Willing.

First, I am going to give some background. Understand that Prophet Muhammad [s] was born in 570 AD, which was over 1,400 years ago.

During this discussion, I am going to refer to a document produced by the California Department of Health Services. It is accessible here. Basically, it is a history of domestic abuse.

In the year 900-1300 A.D., we read:

In Europe, squires and noblemen beat their wives as regularly as they beat their serfs; the peasants faithfully followed their lords' example. The Church sanctions the subjection of women. Priests advise abused wives to win their husbands' good will through increased devotion and obedience. The habit of looking upon women as a species apart, without the same feelings and capacity for suffering which men possess, becomes inbred during the Middle Ages. In a Medieval theological manual, a man is given permission to "castigate his wife and beat her for correction...".

In the 1400's:

The Christian church vacillates between support of wife beating and encouraging husbands to be more compassionate and using moderation in their punishments of their wives. A medieval Christian scholar, Friar Cherbubino of Siena, writes Rules of Marriage, in support of wife beating.

In 1427:

Bernard of Siena suggests that his male parishioners "exercise a little restraint and treat their wives with as much mercy as they would their hens and pigs."

I give this all as background. Again, Prophet Muhammad [s] was born in the year 570 AD. In the document produced by the California Department of Health Services, I am unable to see even a single quote from a Western man criticizing wife-beating. The only quotes that are given in this regard are women, who are ignored of course.

Surely the Biblical Jesus knew that men were routinely beating their wives, and yet we have zero quotes from him warning men not to do that. He warned against a lot of other things, but not this. The Bible tells us that there is no punishment for beating a slave, so long as you don't kill him/her:

"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

But what does this have to do with wife-beating, you may ask? The reason I bring this up is not to just throw mud at Christians (since I *hate* haters of all kinds), but because of the last sentence in that verse explains the logic as to *why* a man may beat his slave: because he is property. In Exodus 20 and 21, women are described as the man's property. It was this chain of logic used by Christian leaders throughout history to sanction wife beating: the wife is property and hence a man can beat her or do whatever he wants with her.

My point is that the Old Testament was around before Jesus, and so were the justifications that were used so that men could routinely beat their wives. Yet, we don't have a single quote from the Biblical Jesus that counters this. In fact, we don't have any Christian men condemning wife-beating at least up until 1427 AD, when we are told to treat them like hens and pigs.

Yet, Prophet Muhammad [s], who was born in 570 AD, forbade hitting one's wife. Again, I bring up Jesus [as] and the Christian leaders NOT to bash Christians. Rather, I meant it merely so that one can appreciate the greatness and significance of Prophet Muhammad's words condemning domestic abuse.

Prophet Muhammad [s] said:

"The most perfect of the believers in their belief are those with the best manners, and the best of you are those who are best with their wives." (Riyadh as-Salihin, Chapter 34, Nr. 278, Ibn-Hanbal, No. 7396)

And Prophet Muhammad [s] advised his disciples:

“The best of you is the one who is best towards his wife.” (al-Tirmidhi, 3895; Ibn Maajah, 1977).

Prophet Muhammad [s] said:

"The people of the household of Muhammad have been surrounded by many women who are complaining about their husbands (abusing them). Those men are not among the best of you." (Sunan Abu Dawud: Book 11, Number 2141)

The Prophet's disciple narrated:

"I went to the Apostle of Allah and asked him: What do you command about our wives? He replied: "Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them." (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 11, Number 2139)

And Prophet Muhammad [s] said explicitly:

"Do not beat the female slaves of God." (Sunan Abu Dawud: Book 11, Number 2141)

And Prophet Muhammad [s] said:

"None of you should flog his wife." (Sahih Bukhari, Vol.7, #132)

In another instance, Prophet Muhammad [s] condemned a man because he abused his wife. A woman came to him asking whom she should marry, and when the name of the wife-beater came up, Prophet Muhammad [s] showed his disapproval and pointed her to another man:

"So far as Abu Jahm is concerned, he is a great beater of women, but but Usama b. Zaid (is good to marry)." (Sahih Muslim, Book 009, Number 3526)

As for Prophet Muhammad's own conduct, this is what the Prophet's wife said after he (the Prophet) had died. Aisha [ra] said:

"The Messenger of Allah never struck a servant of his with his hand, nor did he ever hit a woman. He never hit anything with his hand, except for when he was fighting Jihad in the cause of Allah." (Musnad Ahmad)

So we have:

(1) The best of you are those best to their wives.
(2) The worst of you are those who beat their wives.
(3) Do not beat your wives.
(4) Men who beat women shouldn't be married.
(5) Prophet Muhammad [s] never hit a woman.

To sum it up, the impression that people have of Prophet Muhammad [s] is so far off from the reality that it is not even funny. Please show me any Christian man--or any Western man--who issued such injunctions about the proper treatment of one's wife...any Christian or Western leader forbidding a man from hitting his wife.

But then, what the heck is that video about, the one by MEMRI? Good question.

Although Prophet Muhammad [s] forbade wife-beating altogether and even enacted a criminal punishment (Qisas, i.e. an eye for an eye) to such wife beating, God Almighty countered Prophet Muhammad [s] and made an exception to the rule: in the case the wife was guilty of fahisha mubina, which means when a man catches her wife in his bed with another man...not just that, it means such a wife who not only does that but who is nushuz about it, which means that she is in OPEN REBELLION about it. This is not talking about the wife you catch in bed who then apologizes and cries, promising never to do it again.

So what the Israeli Mossad run website MEMRI did was cut off all that came before about how it is forbidden to hit a wife, except this one single exception, i.e. a man catches his wife in bed. Considering that a man is stoned to death for adultery by the Islamic court, what is strange about this?

But hold your horses...it's not that easy. So you catch your wife in bed with another man, you can't just unbuckle your belt and beat the crap out of her like a lot of us would do. There are three steps you must follow, by Islamic Law.

First: you admonish them, i.e. with words. Again, remember we are talking about wives who are nushuz, i.e. openly flouting your authority. So if by your stern words you can get her back in line, i.e. she promises not to do it again, then the matter MUST stop there.

SECOND: If words fail, then you go onto step two which is banish them to the sofa, i.e. forbid them from sleeping in the same bed as you. If this does the trick, then the matter stops here.

THIRD: If all that fails, then you can hit them. Of course, there are many restrictions on this. And that is where the video by MEMRI starts.

For those of you haven't seen the video, the restrictions are as follows:

1) It cannot be done in front of the children, as that would instill poor values in the children and humiliate the mother in front of her own children.

2) He cannot cause her to bleed, nor break any bones, nor leave any mark or bruise on the body.

3) It is forbidden to hit the face and other sensitive areas.

4) And there is one more restriction, which is the miswaq rule, which I'll discuss shortly.

The Quranic verse that all this controversy is based upon--and the one quoted by critics of Islam--is as follows:

"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because God has given them more than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore, the righteous women are qanitat (obedient to God), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah would have them guard. As for those women whose nushuz you have reason to fear: (1) admonish them; (2) then banish them to beds apart; (3) then hit them (lightly). But if they return to obedience, seek not against them any means. God is Most High!" (Quran, 4:23)

A couple things here: the underlined part means the husband's bed. And the second thing is that many critics of Islam think that we add the word "lightly" after "hit them" in parenthesis by our own "apologetic" will; they argue that the word "lightly" doesn't appear anywhere in the Arabic text, so we (the Muslims) are just trying to lighten the brutal nature of Islam.

This is based on their ignorance. The word "lightly" is not added in parenthesis because any of *us* added it. Rather, it was added by Prophet Muhammad [s] himself and thus considered a canonical understanding by us! What many critics of Islam don't know is that the Quran has general statements and Prophet Muhammad [s] specified them. A Muslim who takes the Quran's general statements and rejects Prophet Muhammad's specifications is considered by us to be a disbeliever. For example, the Quran says to bow down in prayer, but it does not tell us exactly how to bow down or exactly how to pray. In fact, the Quran doesn't even say you must pray five times a day. All of this was the specification given by Prophet Muhammad [s].

Here is the specification of Prophet Muhammad [s] with regards to the hitting verse (which he gave in his last year before he died):

"Lo! My last recommendation to you is that you should treat women well. Truly they are your helpmates, and you have no right over them beyond that--except if they commit fahisha mubina. If they do, then refuse to share their beds and fadribuhunna darban ghayra mubarrih. Then, if they desist, do not show them hostility any longer. Lo! you have a right over your women and they have a right over you. Your right over your women is that they not allow whom you hate to enter your bed nor your house. While their right over you is that you treat them excellently in their garb and provision." (Sahih al-Muslim)

I'm going to explain what the underlined Arabic part means in a second....I've already explained earlier what fahisha mubina means, which also ties into the not allowing anyone to enter your bed. But notice that in ALL OTHER INSTANCES, you (the husbands) have no right to seek any means against them. In other words, in ALL OTHER CASES hitting a wife is strictly forbidden. Not only is it forbidden, but the wife can go to the court for that. More on this in a bit...

Ok, let's talk about the underlined part. It is fadribuhunna darban ghayra mubarrih. The first part "fadribuhunna" is the same as the word used in the Quran, which means to hit. But the words in red are the specification added by Prophet Muhammad [s]--through divine inspiration--"ghayra mubarrih", which means "without (ghayra) painful violence (mubarrih)". *This* is why we add the word "lightly" in parenthesis in the Quranic verse, because it is the Prophet's specification, not because we want to dodge the critics of Islam in some dishonest way.

And the Prophet's disciple, Ibn Abbas, specified the word "ghayra mubarrih" even more, by saying that the pain inflicted on the woman can be no more than the pain a person feels if you were to hit him with a toothbrush:

"I asked Ibn Abbas: 'What is the hitting that is ghayr al-mubarrih?' He replied: '[With] the siwak [toothbrush] and the like.'" (Tafseer at-Tabari)

Based on this this, the Islamic scholars have said that not only must the hitting be light, but they defined what the word "light" means. It means the pain equivalent to (the like of) that when getting hit by a toothbrush, which just stings. One can check the tafseers (commentaries) of Ibn Katheer, Suyuti, Tabari, and Qurtubi to confirm this. There is consensus on this.

One more point: in Islam, a woman can seek a divorce if her husband is abusive to her. In classical Christianity, this is not the case. In fact, according to the Christian texts, a woman CANNOT seek a divorce for any reason other than if he (the husband) cheats on her. So if a husband beat his wife up, she could not even leave him. It was only in the 1880's that finally women were allowed to separate from their husbands (but NOT divorce) and only if her life was in danger (not if he just roughed her up a bit):

1880s: In England, the law is changed to allow a wife who had been habitually beaten by her husband to the point of "endangering her life" to separate from him, but cannot divorce him.

http://www.mincava.umn.edu/documents.../herstory.html

On the other hand, Islam allows a woman to initiate a divorce even if just for the reason that she dislikes him a great deal such that she finds it unbearable to be with him. So if a Muslim husband beats his wife, she can seek a divorce immediately and that is the end of that. But again, I am not trying to imply that Christianity is this or that...rather, Christians are some of the softest people I have ever met, and there is obviously something about their religion which teaches that. Christianity and the Bible have a lot of beautiful things, and we should rightfully think of it in that way. Unfortunately, Islam has a very bad image nowadays--due to the media--and simply because of being "the other". So I just like to put them side-by-side, to make people think to themselves "hey, are we really being intellectually honest here when we think so lowly of 'the other' when we have similar issues in our religion, or our own history, etc?" Getting perspective is something that builds bridges, if done correctly. As Jesus [as] said in the Bible, look at the splinter in your own eye first before pointing out that of your brother.

Anyways, in conclusion, Islam categorically forbids hitting one's wife, and Prophet Muhammad [s] was very particular about this. The ONLY exception was when God revealed to Prophet Muhammad [s] that a man may hit his wife if she commits fahisha mubina (he catches her in his bed with another man), and only then with those strict guidelines (no bruises, no bones broken, no marks at all, no bleeding, and the force of the blow can only be as hard as that of hitting someone with a tootbrush which is a stinging, nothing more). Any more than this, and the Islamic court should take action to divorce the pair and to punish the man guilty of the crime through Qisas (an eye for an eye).

It should also be noted that even the ONE exception allowed was by God Most High, and when it was revealed, Prophet Muhammad [s] said:

"I wanted one thing but God wanted another, and what God wanted is (always) best." (At-Tafsir al-Kabir)

I conclude with the following verses in the Quran about wives:

"Do not retain them (your wives) to harm them." (Quran, 2:231)

"On the contrary, live with them (your wives) on a footing of kindness and equity. If you take a dislike to them it may be that you dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good." (Quran, 4:19)

"And among God's signs is this: He created for you mates from amongst yourselves that you might find peace and tranquility in them. And he has put love and kindness among you. Herein surely are signs for those who reflect." (Quran, 30:21)

In the Care of the Lord Most High,
-Saladin

**BuffedGuy** · 01-03-2009, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Hoggage_54

What's a good pickup line to use on a Muslim girl?

Haha, well, dating is forbidden in Islam. Of course, that doesn't stop many girls from doing that, but I'm not going to contribute to that.

But xlxBigSexyxlx is pointing you in the right way.

**BuffedGuy** · 01-03-2009, 10:25 PM

Peace be unto you, rockinred.

Originally Posted by rockinred

Buffed Guy,

What are your thoughts of Tetragrammaton and how does it relate to the term Allah?

I have never heard of this term. Can you elaborate please?

I understand that muslims are of Abrahams seed Ishmael. Which would coincide with what is stated in the scricptures about his seed building a great nation too.

Yes, that is our understanding as well. We believe that we are that great nation prophecized in the Bible, as you mentioned.

What are your thoughts on the prophecy of the coming of the annointed one?

We Muslims believe that Prophet Jesus [as] is the Messiah and that he will return to earth at the End of Times. And then there will be a great battle between good and evil, and good will overcome evil, as truth always overcomes falsehood.

I also don't believe in a triune godhead, as I believe the scriptures don't state this anywhere... but I do believe that Jesus/Yehoshua was more than a prophet as he stated.

We believe that Jesus [as] was an exalted Prophet, one of the best of creation, and a leader of mankind. We await his coming.

All the best!

In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin