*What's life about*

[Capebuffalo]

Rich Deem wrote this. Yes it is a copy and paste.

Christianity claims that the universe is not eternal, but was created by God as a temporary abode to house God's spiritual creatures.12 After God's purposes are accomplished, He will destroy the entire universe in a cataclysmic apocalypse,13 and create a new universe14 with entirely different laws of physics.15 This universe is the best possible for the purpose for which it was created, which is a place in which spiritual beings can choose to love or reject God. So, evil exists in this universe as the means by which a choice can be made. In the New Creation, there will be no evil and no evil choices, since the creatures who will have chosen God in the current universe would have voluntarily given up such choices. So, although atheism offers only death, the end of consciousness, and the end of knowledge, Christianity presents a universe in which life and consciousness is eternal, and the Source of all knowledge dwells with glorified human beings for all eternity.

Conclusion
Cosmology shows us that the hope of atheism and humanism is ultimately bankrupt. Without God, the universe has no purpose, other than to just be, and its ultimate destiny is to become increasingly more hostile to life- until life, consciousness, and knowledge are eternally destroyed when the universe suffers permanent heat death. In contrast, Christianity says that the universe was designed by God to be a temporary place where spiritual creatures can determine where they want to spend eternity. The New Creation, God's perfect, eternal creation will replace this universe before it becomes inhospitable to human life, offering eternal life with God - the ultimate source of knowledge and wisdom.

[Hazard]

Interesting video on YouTube.....
Lawrence Krauss on something from nothing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUe0_...e_gdata_player

[Hazard]

Marcus..... This ones for you.

The great debate: what is life?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIHMn...e_gdata_player

[HitIt]

Life is...Too short.

[marcus300]

Haz...I'm still reading your first link. It's mind boggling and very interesting im going to digest it some more and ask you a few things.

[Hazard]

Haz...I'm still reading your first link. It's mind boggling and very interesting im going to digest it some more and ask you a few things.

The videos you'll enjoy also.....

I tried to post links to stuff that wasn't to far to either side. I like to post stuff I find interesting. I don't want to offend anyone or attempt to persuade.

[belva]

Maybe I'm late...but for me it's about evolution and helping other to evolve too, to move up to the next level.

[Hazard]

So last nite I had dinner with my parents and girlfriend..... Both my mother and gf have faith in god. They do not like to even have a conversation about the possibility of him not existing. Mind you..... Neither goto church or say prayers on any regular basis.

So the conversation started and within the first 3 minutes of me asking questions my mother shut down and asked where she went wrong and refused to talk about it. My gf said I was offensive because I asked questions. When I asked if I have a right to be offended by her asking me to goto church she changed her tune and said that people who have faith in god don't like it to be questioned.

IMO they're ignorant on both subjects. I said..... "explain to me how the bible says the earth is 10000 years old when it's been proven its older" - moms response "how old is the bible.....? Was it written 10000 years ago?" - my response..... "omg it's the year 2013 mom...... Ok we're done here"

So now in my families eyes - I'm going to hell lol

~Haz~

[marcus300]

The videos you'll enjoy also.....

I tried to post links to stuff that wasn't to far to either side. I like to post stuff I find interesting. I don't want to offend anyone or attempt to persuade.

I haven't even got to those yet the first link I think it was blow my mind, I know I post a lot of space and universe stuff because it interests me but I don't know a great deal about it but when we started talking about god ect and the world its getting very interesting. I have to keep reading over it because some stuff is over my head so doing research to make sure I know what I am about to start asking you about god/universe/earth

I will get to the videos

Thanks

[--->>405<<---]

So last nite I had dinner with my parents and girlfriend..... Both my mother and gf have faith in god. They do not like to even have a conversation about the possibility of him not existing. Mind you..... Neither goto church or say prayers on any regular basis.

So the conversation started and within the first 3 minutes of me asking questions my mother shut down and asked where she went wrong and refused to talk about it. My gf said I was offensive because I asked questions. When I asked if I have a tight to be offended by her asking me to goto church she changed her tune and said that people who have faith in go don't like it to be questioned.

IMO they're ignorant on both subjects. I said..... "explain to me how the bible says the earth is 10000 years old when it's been proven its older" - moms response "how old is the bible.....? Was it written 10000 years ago?" - my response..... "omg it's the year 2013 mom...... Ok we're done here"

So now in my families eyes - I'm going to hell lol

~Haz~

^^thats funny

u say that it has been "proven" the earth is older than 10,000years.. proven how?

[Hazard]

I haven't even got to those yet the first link I think it was blow my mind, I know I post a lot of space and universe stuff because it interests me but I don't know a great deal about it but when we started talking about god ect and the world its getting very interesting. I have to keep reading over it because some stuff is over my head so doing research to make sure I know what I am about to start asking you about god/universe/earth

I will get to the videos

Thanks

Yep I'm the same way..... I read through it once and havnt had the time to go through it again. I'm not formally educated on all this but I read it and understand what I can.

Times is more well versed on science than me. Fvcker had to have done well in physics lol.

Regarding religion and god..... I have my own belief. It's hard for me to look past Dawkins and krauss.....

[Hazard]

^^thats funny

u say that it has been "proven" the earth is older than 10,000years.. proven how?

Why is that funny? Is it that unbelievable?

Geological studies..... Rock layers...... Carbon dating. Don't tell me you don't believe in all this.

~Haz~

[Hazard]

Maybe a simpler..... More believable answer......

The dinosaurs are my proof.

[--->>405<<---]

Why is that funny? Is it that unbelievable?

Geological studies..... Rock layers...... Carbon dating. Don't tell me you don't believe in all this.

~Haz~

what i think is funny is what u posted about ur mom and girlfriend. but to answer ur question, i dont have a great understanding of carbon dating, but i have seen some things (other than the bible) that call its accuracy (or how the conclusions are drawn) into question. http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...rove-the-bible

how do the dinosaurs prove the earth is millions of years old? i can get u a sermon preached by my pastor (who is a very well educated man, he has a phd i think in hebrew, he is very well studied and not one to turn a blind eye to anything like some of these christians u have come into contact with) where he addresses literal 6 day creation and dinosaurs, and they actually work just fine with genesis and science.

[--->>405<<---]

id also like to note just to be objective and fair i watched some of the video link u posted with krauss and the other guy about something from nothing, and it seems around 7-8minutes in they discuss evolution and natural selection and it is determined u hae to have a cell capable self replication in order for natural selection to work or take off (as they say). he admits they do not have an answer for where this single cell self replicating organism came from, they just conveniently assume it exists and then go from there.

how is this possible? to me this totally invalidates the foundation of their entire argument?

and do any of yall have an answer for where space and the universe came from?

[Hazard]

id also like to note just to be objective and fair i watched some of the video link u posted with krauss and the other guy about something from nothing, and it seems around 7-8minutes in they discuss evolution and natural selection and it is determined u hae to have a cell capable self replication in order for natural selection to work or take off (as they say). he admits they do not have an answer for where this single cell self replicating organism came from, they just conveniently assume it exists and then go from there.

how is this possible? to me this totally invalidates the foundation of their entire argument?

and do any of yall have an answer for where space and the universe came from?

No.... They're still searching for what happened before the big bang.

I understand your point but saying "you can't prove just one thing" doesn't means science is invalidated..... If that's the case..... Religion can't prove anything at all......

Now in regards to making dinosaurs work with genesis...... That's complete nonsense IMO. Man did not exist with dinosaurs...... I don't even see how that can be argued. The late Triassic era was something like 220 million years ago. The comet that wiped the dinosaurs out was around 62 million years ago.

[Hazard]

Question......

If the dinosaurs roamed with man within the last 10,000 years..... How could Noah have fit 100 ton dinosaurs on the ark? Also..... Out of curiosity..... If dinosaurs existed with man - how do you believe they went extinct?

[RaginCajun]

A coworker and I were having a similar discussion today about how old the Earth really is.

[Hazard]

One more question..... And this is not being arrogant at all but I'm not sure how I would answer this if I was so left wing religious.

Let's say we went out for wings and beers...... And you started choking on a wing. Scientifically..... The Heimlich maneuver is proven to be successful...... Tho it may not always work. Would you rather me give you the Heimlich or say a prayer?

I'm not so far science that I completely close my mind to god or a higher being. I am open to my mind being able to change. Even krauss has said that the beauty of science is that it's open to being wrong and therefore open to change through proof. I havnt seen that in religion...... I mean..... If they found proof for what there was before the big bang..... Would that change your view?

[Hazard]

A coworker and I were having a similar discussion today about how old the Earth really is.

It's something like 1.5 billion years old if I'm not mistaken. I was curious so I looked it up and found some interesting facts. I'll post them up.

[ppwc1985]

The bible has versus about dinosaurs in there, if they been extinct for like 10 million years how is it that a few years ago the found a bone that still had sort tissue inside it. It wasn't frozen, they found it in the ground. From everything I study, cause there are scientists who believe in intelligent design most of the stuff like Big Bang and earth being 1 billion years old are theory.

[Hazard]

Mega Meteor Impacts - Researchers have found dozens of meteor-impact craters that are so large they would have profoundly affected the earth's climate. One crater in Northern Canada is around 60 miles wide. A giant meteor that struck the Mexican Yucatan Peninsula is blamed for causing one of the largest mass extinctions of dinosaurs. It's inconceivable that the biblical writers could have missed reporting an event that would have blanketed the globe with a choking blizzard of ash.

Super Volcanoes - Several of the earth's volcanoes periodically have erupted with a force so massive in scale, they would dwarf any eruption that modern man has ever witnessed. The Toba Caldera on the island of Sumatra once exploded with a force that released a volume of ash 3,000 times greater than the amount produced by the 1980 Mount St. Helen's eruption. Core samples taken 2,000 miles away from Toba have measured ash layers as deep as 36 inches. Yellowstone National Park in Wyoming is the home of one of these super volcanoes. If it were to erupt, much of North America would be devastated by the blast.

Mount Everest - Ages ago, the Eurasian and Indian continents collided spectacularly to form the Himalayan mountain range. Geological movement continues to take place today as India is gradually pushed beneath China and Nepal at a rate of about 3 inches per year. Going by the current rate of upwelling, it has taken Mount Everest at least 100,000 years to rise to its 29,035-foot elevation. Before the great collision, the bedrock that makes up the Himalayan range was once at the bottom of the Indian Ocean. The top 1,500 feet of Mount Everest is comprised of limestone. This type of rock is slowly formed by the deposition and consolidation of the skeletons of marine invertebrates. Because these creatures are minuscule, it would take a very long time to accumulate these limestone layers.

Coral Reefs -Coral is made up of the skeletons and calcium deposits of tiny animals that live in warm, shallow seas. It takes an estimated 100 years to produce a few centimeters of coral growth. One coral atoll has been measured at 3,900 feet in depth.

Light and Cosmic Events - The sun is one of countless numbers of stars in the Milky Way. Our little galaxy is over 100,000 light years across. This means that light from some stars in our galaxy has taken many tens of thousands of years to reach earth. A common explanation for our ability to see stars that are millions of light years away is that God created the light from these distant stars already in transit. The problem with the light-in-motion claim is that as light travels through the universe, forces it encounters alter its properties, giving us a travel log of its journey. Many of the cosmic events we see in the universe take millions of years to occur. It doesn't seem logical for God to have constructed such a multifaceted, elaborate hoax.

Bristlecone Pine Trees - The annual growth rings of trees are among the most reliable measures of time. Some Bristlecone pine trees in the White-Inyo mountain range of California date back beyond 6000 BC.

Algae Growth Cycle - During the springtime, tiny, one-celled algae bloom in Lake Suigetsu, Japan. They die and sink to the bottom of the lake, where they create a thin, white layer. During the rest of the year, dark clay sediments settle to the bottom. The results are alternating dark and light annual layers -- much like the annual growth rings on a tree. Scientists have counted about 45,000 layers.

Moon Dust - Measurements by sensors attached to satellites show that space dust accumulates on the moon at the rate of about 2 nanograms per square centimeter each year. (A nanogram is one thousandth of a millionth of a gram.) This rate would require 4.5 billion years to reach a depth of 1.5 inches, which is approximately the depth experienced by the astronauts who walked on the moon.

Cosmic Rays - The Los Alamos National Laboratory has developed a method of measuring the length of time that surface rocks have been exposed to cosmic rays. Cosmic rays stream into the atmosphere from all directions in outer space and break neutrons free when they collide with air molecules. When these neutrons hit rocks on the ground, they sometimes react with a tiny number of mineral atoms that create radioactive isotopes. At sea level, a few hundred modified atoms are created each year in a gram of quartz near the surface of the ground. New measuring techniques can detect very small numbers of these atoms and thus estimate the number of years that the rocks have been exposed. Scientists have found ages of about 8,500 years for "recent" glacial moraines in Newfoundland and 830,000 years for extinct volcanoes in Nevada.

Radioactive Decay -The "nuclide" argument is one of the best proofs of an old earth. Nuclides are forms of matter that are radioactive. Each nuclide decays into another form of matter at a certain rate. After an interval of time equal to its half-life, only half of the original material is left. Scientists have found that every nuclide with a half-life of over 80 million years can be found naturally occurring on earth. All nuclides with a half-life under 80 million years do not exist naturally at detectable levels.

Ice Ages - In North America, more than 20 glacial advances and retreats have occurred during the last 2 million years. It takes a foot of snowfall to produce an inch of glacial ice. Since some of the ice is thousands of feet thick, it takes centuries of snow to produce each ice age event. These glaciers would have had to move across the land like freight trains to fit into the 6,000-year model.

Hawaiian Island Chain - If we could remove all of the water in the Pacific Ocean, we would find that the Hawaiian Islands are peaks on a 10,000-foot-high ridge that extends 3,000 miles to the northwest. The Hawaiian chain gets progressively older and becomes more eroded farther beyond the volcanically active region of the "Big Island" of Hawaii. All three factors - the movement of the ocean crust, the building of volcanic islands, and the erosion - are time-consuming geological processes.

*my Noah argument from previous post*

Seating capacity - A lot of creationists try to defend the narrow timeline of the young earth view by arguing that Noah brought all the animals that ever existed onto the ark with him. They fail to realize that many of these prehistoric creatures were huge; some beasts weighed as much as 100 tons. However, getting all those bulky dinosaurs onto the ark would have been the least of Noah's problems. Scientists estimate that a total of 10 million species have existed on the earth. Because Noah never could have crammed that many animals into the ark, when the rains came, it would appear that most of them were left standing at the dock. It is interesting to note that scientists have calculated that Noah could have fit all of the 16,000 species of land animals currently living on the earth into the ark.

Coal - The Great Flood is frequently cited as the instantaneous creator of many fossil records. Geologists tell us that coal took millions of years to build up, and creationists point to the Flood as the source. The claim is made that when the Flood transpired, it buried all the earth's vegetation, creating the coal we mine today. The problem with this theory is that the available amount of plant material could not account for coal layers that are hundreds of feet thick. It would have taken several feet of organic material like ferns, grasses, and a few bugs just to produce a few inches of coal.

Salt Deposits - In the state of Utah, there is a huge, underground deposit of salt created by the continual evaporation of a shallow sea that once covered the land. The dome is nearly 5,000 feet deep and it was pushed to the surface by volcanic forces. Noah's flood cannot account for such a vast quantity of salt being deposited in a compact location and in such short stretch of time. A steady stream of water over millions of years is the only plausible solution.

Grand Canyon I - Young earth proponents like to disprove popular belief that the Grand Canyon is the result of millions of years of erosion by saying the Great Flood carved out the steep canyon walls in a few days. There are several problems with this simple explanation for the formation of the Grand Canyon. The Canyon is not the product of flooding. It was formed by the uplifting of a plateau by mountain-building events. The narrow inner gorge of the Grand Canyon and its many tributaries are the antithesis of the erosion that would be found as part of a broad floodplain.

Grand Canyon II - The Grand Canyon example is a two-parter in order to also account for all those thousands of layers of sedimentary rock that give the Grand Canyon its beauty. Creationists often say the Great Flood laid down the layers and in its aftermath, the receding waters dug out the gorge. One of the more prominent formations in the Grand Canyon is the Coconino Sandstone. This layer is found only a few hundred feet below the rim. Geologists have described this sandstone as originating from an ancient desert. Remnants of sand dunes can be seen in many outcrops of the formation in a phenomenon called cross bedding. Many footprints in this sandstone have been recognized as those of lizards scurrying across the desert. It's ridiculous to think there could be a sandy desert formation wedged between a series of layers that were all formed by the same flood event.

[--->>405<<---]

[QUOTE=Hazard;6489546]

No.... They're still searching for what happened before the big bang.

I understand your point but saying "you can't prove just one thing" doesn't means science is invalidated..... If that's the case..... Religion can't prove anything at all...

im not suggesting all of science is not valid, but i am saying IMO if the entire idea of evolution and natural selection is based on an assumption, it cant hold water until that assumption is remedied. until then it is pure speculation. i have not even looked deeper into the rest of it, i get stopped on what i consider the very first issue.

Now in regards to making dinosaurs work with genesis...... That's complete nonsense IMO. Man did not exist with dinosaurs...... I don't even see how that can be argued. The late Triassic era was something like 220 million years ago. The comet that wiped the dinosaurs out was around 62 million years ago.

if u would like i would be happy to try to track down the sermon i am speaking of and u can listen to it.

there is also mention of dinosaurs in the Bible:

Job 40:15-24
New International Version (NIV)
15 “Look at Behemoth,
which I made along with you
and which feeds on grass like an ox.
16 What strength it has in its loins,
what power in the muscles of its belly!
17 Its tail sways like a cedar;
the sinews of its thighs are close-knit.
18 Its bones are tubes of bronze,
its limbs like rods of iron.
19 It ranks first among the works of God,
yet its Maker can approach it with his sword.
20 The hills bring it their produce,
and all the wild animals play nearby.
21 Under the lotus plants it lies,
hidden among the reeds in the marsh.
22 The lotuses conceal it in their shadow;
the poplars by the stream surround it.
23 A raging river does not alarm it;
it is secure, though the Jordan should surge against its mouth.
24 Can anyone capture it by the eyes,
or trap it and pierce its nose?

JOB 41:1-34
41 [a]“Can you pull in Leviathan with a fishhook
or tie down its tongue with a rope?
2 Can you put a cord through its nose
or pierce its jaw with a hook?
3 Will it keep begging you for mercy?
Will it speak to you with gentle words?
4 Will it make an agreement with you
for you to take it as your slave for life?
5 Can you make a pet of it like a bird
or put it on a leash for the young women in your house?
6 Will traders barter for it?
Will they divide it up among the merchants?
7 Can you fill its hide with harpoons
or its head with fishing spears?
8 If you lay a hand on it,
you will remember the struggle and never do it again!
9 Any hope of subduing it is false;
the mere sight of it is overpowering.
10 No one is fierce enough to rouse it.
Who then is able to stand against me?
11 Who has a claim against me that I must pay?
Everything under heaven belongs to me.

12 “I will not fail to speak of Leviathan’s limbs,
its strength and its graceful form.
13 Who can strip off its outer coat?
Who can penetrate its double coat of armor[b]?
14 Who dares open the doors of its mouth,
ringed about with fearsome teeth?
15 Its back has[c] rows of shields
tightly sealed together;
16 each is so close to the next
that no air can pass between.
17 They are joined fast to one another;
they cling together and cannot be parted.
18 Its snorting throws out flashes of light;
its eyes are like the rays of dawn.
19 Flames stream from its mouth;
sparks of fire shoot out.
20 Smoke pours from its nostrils
as from a boiling pot over burning reeds.
21 Its breath sets coals ablaze,
and flames dart from its mouth.
22 Strength resides in its neck;
dismay goes before it.
23 The folds of its flesh are tightly joined;
they are firm and immovable.
24 Its chest is hard as rock,
hard as a lower millstone.
25 When it rises up, the mighty are terrified;
they retreat before its thrashing.
26 The sword that reaches it has no effect,
nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin.
27 Iron it treats like straw
and bronze like rotten wood.
28 Arrows do not make it flee;
slingstones are like chaff to it.
29 A club seems to it but a piece of straw;
it laughs at the rattling of the lance.
30 Its undersides are jagged potsherds,
leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge.
31 It makes the depths churn like a boiling caldron
and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment.
32 It leaves a glistening wake behind it;
one would think the deep had white hair.
33 Nothing on earth is its equal—
a creature without fear.
34 It looks down on all that are haughty;
it is king over all that are proud.”

u say a comet wiped out dinosaurs 62 million years ago? how do u know this? everything i have seen about carbon dating, assuming all the assumptions they make are accurate, suggest it is not good for that big of a time period??

as far as u stating: "Religion can't prove anything at all......"
the whole foundation of our beliefs are held together by faith, NOT proof. science is the entity who appears to be so demanding of proof, but they sure do seem to be willing to make an exception in the one area that calls into question their entire premise.. very interesting that is.

[--->>405<<---]

[QUOTE=Hazard;6489561]

One more question..... And this is not being arrogant at all but I'm not sure how I would answer this if I was so left wing religious.

Let's say we went out for wings and beers...... And you started choking on a wing. Scientifically..... The Heimlich maneuver is proven to be successful...... Tho it may not always work. Would you rather me give you the Heimlich or say a prayer?

LMAO.. that is an absurd question, not even deserving of an answer. there may be some idiots out there who would entertain such a ridiculous notion, i am not one of them..

I'm not so far science that I completely close my mind to god or a higher being. I am open to my mind being able to change. Even krauss has said that the beauty of science is that it's open to being wrong and therefore open to change through proof. I havnt seen that in religion...... I mean..... If they found proof for what there was before the big bang..... Would that change your view?

lets get one thing straight: my faith is not a view, it is a belief. i believe it to my core. there is nothing that would cause me to doubt God. He had been faithful to me for the last 5 years (and even longer) and will continue to be faithful to me even though i dont deserve it because thats who He is. i will NOT turn my back on HIM ever.. ur science is just that , a train of thought and/or bunch of theories and stuff generated by human beings. it is fallible. the Lord is infallible.. period.

[Hazard]

But I'm not trying to convert religious people to science. I'm merely giving my reasons for what I believe. I choose proof over faith because we seek proof for EVERYTHING. We want concrete evidence for a murder.... We want evidence for a medical claim, we want scientific proof for almost everything..... But when it comes to religion/faith and someone ask for proof..... They cant find it. Not only that but they're met with people that get excited about it. Proof is good for everyone and for everything..... Except for their religion

[HORSE]

peaceful forgiving religious guy seem's angry, scientific guy seem's to be having a normal day conversing and asking question's....

Telling?? Iduno

[Hazard]

This is where the buck stops for me..... It seems to be a hell of a quandary. No matter the proof, evidence, or undeniablility that there is, was, or ever will be - nothing will ever sway faith..... And that's a good thing for the spirit. These are two opposites..... Oil and water...... They can not be mixed.

405 - I sincerely thank-you for the discussion and insight into your belief. Also - thank you for keeping it on a level that keeps the thread open. Stuff like this cant be talked about with most.

[Flagg]

I'm just about to find this link Haz left for me.

By the way, birds are decended from dinosaurs. The last dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago, and there is no debating that.

CARBON DATING.

[Flagg]

Krauss was a friend of Christopher Hitchens? Im a HUGE fan of the late Christopher Hitchens.

Think this is gonna make an interesting read, cheers Haz

[Hazard]

Krauss was a friend of Christopher Hitchens? Im a HUGE fan of the late Christopher Hitchens.

Think this is gonna make an interesting read, cheers Haz

Haha I knew this would be right up your alley. You love all this stuff. I'm limiting my participation but will comment if asked. I can't really comment much further on my beliefs.

[Flagg]

405, you do know that Ice Cores alone go back to some 1 million years of records? So that alone blows the whole "10,000 years" of earth age that the Bible states out the water.

And of course we can carbon date rocks way, way further back.

EDIT: The article was interesting, I liked how Krauss seems to suggest that over time, science will only serve to open the minds of people, which I believe to be true. It's a shame he seems to condemn philosophy as that is far closer to science that religion in my opinion. Multiverse is an interesting concept and I think is something the board could talk about at some point.

It kinda makes me think, we have seen past religions come and go, and all that is left are the 3 Abrahamic ones. But we live in a world of technological splendour and I think we will soon pass into an age of non religion. I think Islam will be the last to go, only because of how backward the Middle East is, but sooner or later they will also be exposed to technological greatness.

[RaginCajun]

It's something like 1.5 billion years old if I'm not mistaken. I was curious so I looked it up and found some interesting facts. I'll post them up.

I was thinking it was older than that, more like 7 billion.

This also strikes up a debate about fossil fuels/oil. Are they really the remnants of fossils and such, or something totally different?

[Flagg]

I was thinking it was older than that, more like 7 billion.

This also strikes up a debate about fossil fuels/oil. Are they really the remnants of fossils and such, or something totally different?

Fossil fuels are the remains of prehistoric life, mostly vegetation, but some dinosaurs. When you burn a tree, it releases carbon dioxide. Most organisms are carbon based on this planet.

[Hazard]

Fossil fuels are the remains of prehistoric life, mostly vegetation, but some dinosaurs. When you burn a tree, it releases carbon dioxide. Most organisms are carbon based on this planet.

There's a company trying to synthetically produce oil if I'm not mistaken. I think they talk about it in the "what is life" YouTube vid I posted.

*edit* not synthetic motor oil lol. I'll try to find wtf I meant/heard

[--->>405<<---]

peaceful forgiving religious guy seem's angry, scientific guy seem's to be having a normal day conversing and asking question's....

Telling?? Iduno

mystery guy/gal who pops up at unusual times attempting to provoke the situation u make 2 incorrect assumptions about me (assuming i am who u are referring to above):
1. u mistaken steadfastness for anger

2. u assume because i am christian i am automatically peace loving and forgiving. while i strive to be, i often fall short.

[--->>405<<---]

But I'm not trying to convert religious people to science. I'm merely giving my reasons for what I believe. I choose proof over faith because we seek proof for EVERYTHING. We want concrete evidence for a murder.... We want evidence for a medical claim, we want scientific proof for almost everything..... But when it comes to religion/faith and someone ask for proof..... They cant find it. Not only that but they're met with people that get excited about it. Proof is good for everyone and for everything..... Except for their religion

i am incapable of converting you or anyone else. God is the only one who can do that. i read the bible and know this to be the case much moreso than urself obviously, which is why u mistakenly perceive what im doing here as "trying to convert you". i am scattering seed, and it is not necessarily intended for you. maybe for someone else that may be reading this thread.

FLAGG: as far as carbon dating i posted a link to what casts apparent light on the error of the way it is done with a 30 second google search.

im done with this thread for one reason: God's word deserves to be honored, respected and diligently and hungrily studied.

u claim to require proof, but u fail to provide it and ignore ur failure and press on.. the reason u cant prove where the universe came from and where single cell self replicating organisms came from is because u refuse to acknowledge the true source: God..

[Hazard]

Here's the man behind what I was talking about. J. Craig Venter - http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/03/ma...anted=all&_r=0

He's mapped the human genome and has created a synthetic organism..... The article is also very interesting on what he wants to do.

[Hazard]

i am incapable of converting you or anyone else. God is the only one who can do that. i read the bible and know this to be the case much moreso than urself obviously, which is why u mistakenly perceive what im doing here as "trying to convert you". i am scattering seed, and it is not necessarily intended for you. maybe for someone else that may be reading this thread.

FLAGG: as far as carbon dating i posted a link to what casts apparent light on the error of the way it is done with a 30 second google search.

im done with this thread for one reason: God's word deserves to be honored, respected and diligently and hungrily studied.

u claim to require proof, but u fail to provide it and ignore ur failure and press on.. the reason u cant prove where the universe came from and where single cell self replicating organisms came from is because u refuse to acknowledge the true source: God..

I don't find this dishonoring gods word. I can't see how he would scorn me for questioning - everyone questions at some point.

I'm not refusing to acknowledge that he's the true source..... My mind is open to every option possible. At this point in time..... I just don't see how he's real...... Doesnt mean at another time my mind wont change

[calgarian]

The videos you'll enjoy also.....

I tried to post links to stuff that wasn't to far to either side. I like to post stuff I find interesting. I don't want to offend anyone or attempt to persuade.

r u offending me go put on some underwear these kind of pictures DSM needs in his inbox

[frank13]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=XLgYAHHkPFs