HCG - How important is it?

[Ronaldo_911]

Should I use a specific type of water? or a regular water from the tap??

[V8Assassin]

My understanding is that HCG , once reconstituted, should be stored in the fridge and will only last around 6 weeks. My clinic sent me a bottle with 11,000ius, even if running 250ius 3 times/week over the six weeks, that's only 4500iu's. What are my storage options or is the rest just going to go bad and not be able to be used on a later cycle.

[Swifto]

bump

[creactiveprotein]

swifto - if one were running test e 500mg for 9 weeks when is the best time to start hcg ? throughout the thread you've said week 4 and other times you said week 1 if at all possible, whats the accurate answer here?

[flexandex]

Wow brilliant thread.

Sooo much infomation, would just like to throw out there what i have, and if anythings wrong mabey you could fix it?

week 1-10 test-e 600mg PW
week 1-4 dbol 40mg ED

week 1-10 HCG 250IU 2x PW
week 1-10 arimidex 0.25 EOD (Would this be too much?)

(pheedno PCT)
week 12-16 arimidex 0.25 ED
week 12-16 clomid 100mg ED
week 12-16 nolva 20mg ED

I finish my cycle and wait 14 days after the last test injection to start pct, i was wondering do i carry HCG through weeks 10-12?

edit: HCG-PREGNYL is what we want? is there any guides on how to mix it etc?

[Swifto]

swifto - if one were running test e 500mg for 9 weeks when is the best time to start hcg? throughout the thread you've said week 4 and other times you said week 1 if at all possible, whats the accurate answer here?

Its best to start at week 1. But you could start at a later date, but use a higher initial dose.

Wow brilliant thread.

Sooo much infomation, would just like to throw out there what i have, and if anythings wrong mabey you could fix it?

week 1-10 test-e 600mg PW
week 1-4 dbol 40mg ED

week 1-10 HCG 250IU 2x PW
week 1-10 arimidex 0.25 EOD (Would this be too much?)

(pheedno PCT)
week 12-16 arimidex 0.25 ED
week 12-16 clomid 100mg ED
week 12-16 nolva 20mg ED

I finish my cycle and wait 14 days after the last test injection to start pct, i was wondering do i carry HCG through weeks 10-12?

edit: HCG-PREGNYL is what we want? is there any guides on how to mix it etc?

Stop the HCG before PCT.

No need for Arimidex or any AI's during PCT. Estrogen is already low.

Wait 10-11 days, not 14 days.

Mixing instructions are on page 1, post #1.

[flexandex]

awesome thanks swifto.

so i keep the hcg going in the period between my last jab and PCT?

about the arimidex thing, that is just what i got from pheedno's PCT, its linked from the beginner cycle sticky as the PCT i should use

[mr_miklos]

could you take a look at this cycle. is it good?

Cycle:

V 1-14 : Boldenone 250mg/monday 250mg/thursday
V 1-15 : testo e 250mg/monday 250mg/thursday

PCT:

Week 18-21 Clomid 100/50/50/50
Week 18-21 Nolvadex 40/20/20/20

would it be enough if i use hcg at 250ius 2 times weekly. starting at week 1 and stop at week 16? and should i use some AI troughout the cycle? if so what is to recommend and at what dose?

Stats:

Age : 28
Height : 5.9
Weight : 199
Bench : 280
Deadlift : 400
squats : 340

[Ca$tro]

Swifto,
I am looking to start my cycle of test enanthate and dbol , followed by pct on clomid and nolva... My question to you is that if i am to take test enanthate for 12 weeks when should i introduce the hcg and what dosages would you recommend.

My HCG pack comes with 3 bottles full of injectable liquid and 3 bottles full of powder made by Angelini Farmaceutica, s.a. - HCG-lepori 2500 for gonadotrofina via intramuscular. I think the the bottles are 2500iu, will confirm with my supplier/adviser. I have two packs, six bottles...

Any advice appreciated mate trying to make sure my testicles remain functional.

Thankyou very much for your time bro

[Swifto]

could you take a look at this cycle. is it good?

Cycle:

V 1-14 : Boldenone 250mg/monday 250mg/thursday
V 1-15 : testo e 250mg/monday 250mg/thursday

PCT:

Week 18-21 Clomid 100/50/50/50
Week 18-21 Nolvadex 40/20/20/20

would it be enough if i use hcg at 250ius 2 times weekly. starting at week 1 and stop at week 16? and should i use some AI troughout the cycle? if so what is to recommend and at what dose?

Stats:

Age : 28
Height : 5.9
Weight : 199
Bench : 280
Deadlift : 400
squats : 340

Keep the SERMs going for 6 weeks, not 4.

I prefer Tore/Tamox PCT, but Clomid will suffice.

Aromasin 10mg/ED or EOD.

Swifto,
I am looking to start my cycle of test enanthate and dbol , followed by pct on clomid and nolva... My question to you is that if i am to take test enanthate for 12 weeks when should i introduce the hcg and what dosages would you recommend.

My HCG pack comes with 3 bottles full of injectable liquid and 3 bottles full of powder made by Angelini Farmaceutica, s.a. - HCG-lepori 2500 for gonadotrofina via intramuscular. I think the the bottles are 2500iu, will confirm with my supplier/adviser. I have two packs, six bottles...

Any advice appreciated mate trying to make sure my testicles remain functional.

Thankyou very much for your time bro

Doses are in post #1.

[steroidsarebad]

Great thread Swifto. Everything I have seen has always said that hcg was important to prevent testicular atrophy but never explained why testicular atrophy was bad besides having baby nuts, this thread did.

Also I read another post where you were talking about Naltrexone, do you have any more information about this or is Hcg superior to it?

[bjpennnn]

bump just had another read lots of good info here.

[BOBfromfightclub]

So as long as the doseing is low one could take it for the entire cycle straight?
I thought I remembered reading that it shouldn't be used for longer then 3 weeks at a time...
Just clarifying

[40plusnewbie]

I'm 43 and running my first cycle that includes test (or any other nut shrinker) and sure am glad I'm running HCG throughout the run of test. I've had these nuts for 43 years, never turned them into raisin's before so sure as heck don't want to do that now if it can be avoided.

[Swifto]

I comment on a separate thread about rhLH. On the thread, I believe I include the following study between hCG and rhLH (Cailleux-Bounacer et al.). One of the primary differences is the half-life, which makes use of rhLH unwieldy and problematic. Interestingly, the abstract following (Handelsman et al.), concludes, "Effective rhLH doping, which relies on a sustained increases in endogenous T, would require much higher and more frequent daily rhLH doses." Add the cost to this and hCG is the hands down choice.


Cailleux-Bounacer A, Reznik Y, Cauliez B, Menard JF, Duparc C, Kuhn JM. Evaluation of endocrine testing of Leydig cell function using extractive and recombinant human chorionic gonadotropin and different doses of recombinant human LH in normal men. Eur J Endocrinol 2008;159(2):171-8. Evaluation of endocrine testing of Leydig cell function using extractive and recombinant human chorionic gonadotropin and different doses of recombinant human LH in normal men -- Cailleux-Bounacer et al. 159 (2): 171 -- European Journal of Endocrinol

BACKGROUND: The functional testing of endocrine testis uses extractive human chorionic gonadotropin (ehCG). Recombinant human hCG (rhCG), avoiding any contamination, should replace ehCG. Moreover, a functional evaluation with recombinant human LH (rhLH) would be closer to physiology than a pharmacological testing with hCG.

METHODS: The study was conducted in normal men. We first evaluated the dose-effect of ehCG on plasma testosterone and estradiol levels, before and after injection of either hCG or vehicle. Secondly, the responses to the optimal dose of ehCG were compared with those of rhCG. Thirdly, we investigated the dose-effect of rhLH, on steroid hormone secretion. LH, testosterone, and estradiol plasma levels were measured after the injection of either rhLH or placebo.

RESULTS: ehCG induced dose-dependent increases in plasma estradiol and testosterone levels . They respectively peaked at 24 and 72 h after the injection. The most potent dose of ehCG (5000 IU) induced results similar to those observed with 250 microg (6500 IU) rhCG. By comparison with placebo, rhLH induced a significant and dose-dependent increase in plasma testosterone levels 4 h after the injection. Peak response of testosterone to rhLH and rhCG was significantly correlated. rhLH did not induce significant change in plasma estradiol level.

CONCLUSIONS: In normal men, a single i.v. injection of 150 IU rhLH induces a 25% rise in plasma testosterone levels by comparison with placebo. At the moment, the dynamic evaluation using hCG remains the gold standard test to explore the Leydig cell function. The use of 250 microg rhCG avoiding any contamination should be recommended.


Handelsman DJ, Goebel C, Idan A, Jimenez M, Trout G, Kazlauskas R. Effects of recombinant human LH and hCG on serum and urine LH and androgens in men. Clin Endocrinol (Oxf) 2009;71(3):417-28.

CONTEXT: The administration of gonadotrophins is prohibited in sport but the effect in men of recently available recombinant hCG and LH on serum and urine concentrations of gonadotrophins and androgens has not been systematically evaluated in the antidoping context.

OBJECTIVE: To determine the time-course of recombinant LH (rhLH) and hCG (rhCG) on blood and urine hormone profiles in men to develop effective tests to detect rhLH and rhCG doping.

DESIGN: Two randomized controlled studies with a 2 x 2 factorial design.

SETTING: Academic research centre.

PARTICIPANTS: Healthy male volunteers aged 18-45 years.

INTERVENTIONS: In the rhLH study, men were randomized into (i) either of two single doses of rhLH (75 IU or 225 IU), and (ii) suppression of endogenous LH and testosterone by nandrolone or no suppression. In the rhCG study, men were randomized into (i) either of two single doses of rhCG (250 or 750 microg), and (ii) suppression of endogenous LH and testosterone by nandrolone decanoate (ND) or no suppression. ND suppression comprised a single dose of 200 mg ND 3 days prior to, and in the rhCG study an additional dose 1 day after gonadotrophin injection.

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Serum and urine hCG, LH, T, T : LH ratio, urine epitestosterone (E) and urine T : E ratio. RESULTS: Neither rhLH dose produced a significant increase in serum or urine LH or T or in the T : E or T : LH ratios regardless of ND-induced suppression of endogenous LH and T. Nor did an even higher dose (750 IU) in three healthy men with unsuppressed gonadal axis. These findings were confirmed with two different commercial LH immunoassays together with adjustment for any influence of urine sediment and dilution. Both rhCG doses produced a steep, dose-proportional increase in serum and urine hCG with increases in serum and urine T and suppression of serum and urine LH, regardless of hCG dose. Serum but not urine T was lowered by ND suppression. The T : LH ratio showed a progressive increase unrelated to rhCG dose or ND suppression, whereas both rhCG and ND suppression minimally increased T : E ratio.

CONCLUSIONS: Both rhCG doses produce a striking increase in serum hCG and T with suppression of serum LH but, at single doses up to 750 IU, rhLH has no influence on serum or urine LH or T. Effective rhLH doping, which relies on a sustained increases in endogenous T, would require much higher and more frequent daily rhLH doses. Use of LH immunoassays optimized for serum to detect rhLH doping by urine LH measurement requires more standardization and validation and, at present, is unreliable. The T : LH ratio is, however, a useful screening test for hCG doping although its utility requires further evaluation.

HCG is still king, even against newer more advanced compounds being developed.

[40plusnewbie]

Swifto,

How do you run your torem/tomax in pct?

I have both in powder form and will be capping them up myself for my pct of a:

Test cyp 500/week for 10 1/2 weeks
Var 80-100mg/day for 9 weeks
Tren 400mg week last 8 weeks
I'm also running ghrp-2 and cjc w/o DAC 100mcg 3x/day throughout cycle and pct and beyond.
I"m also running HCG ~ 300iu 2x/week throughout cycle. Is it better to stop the HCG after the last test cyp shot or just prior to pct?

[Swifto]

Have a look at my PCT Q&A in that section. Its on page 1.

[jimmy79]

Swifto, what is your take on HCG when you're getting TRT ? (yes, no, same dose?)

[lew]

Starting my first cycle soon so just need to make sure i have this right

Week 1-10: Test E 400mg
Plus...Maybe GH 5iu's for 20 weeks

1. So is HCG 250iu x2 per week
2. although my last test E shot will be week 10 do i run HCG until week 11?
3. Then stop HCG at end of week 11 and run PCT middle of week 11 (10 days after last Test E shot)

Advise would be appreciated

Thanks

Lew

[Swifto]

Swifto, what is your take on HCG when you're getting TRT ? (yes, no, same dose?)

It only needed for cosmetic purposes or fartility needs.

Protocol's vary from all the way through for around 8-10 weeks, then 3-4 weeks off, repeat.

Or 250-500ius for 14 days now and again during the course of the HRT program.

Personally, I'd go with the first protocol, but I am not on HRT.

Starting my first cycle soon so just need to make sure i have this right

Week 1-10: Test E 400mg
Plus...Maybe GH 5iu's for 20 weeks

1. So is HCG 250iu x2 per week
2. although my last test E shot will be week 10 do i run HCG until week 11?
3. Then stop HCG at end of week 11 and run PCT middle of week 11 (10 days after last Test E shot)

Advise would be appreciated

Thanks

Lew

Yes.

Do one more shot of HCG as your waiting for the Enanthate ester to clear.

[kfish326]

Swifto,

How do you feel about running HCG during TRT? I am currently on 250mg testoviron per week and was thinking of adding 250iu 2xwk and armidex .25 everyday. would you have to cycle the HCG or could i run it in conjuction with the testosterone continuosly?

[Swifto]

Swifto,

How do you feel about running HCG during TRT? I am currently on 250mg testoviron per week and was thinking of adding 250iu 2xwk and armidex .25 everyday. would you have to cycle the HCG or could i run it in conjuction with the testosterone continuosly?

F*ck me.

Read the post above yours...

[kfish326]

HA.. Sorry about that.. i read about the 1st 9 pages of this thread and couldn't go on anymore and figured i would just ask.. figures it would be the last one..thanks for the info.

[MrO_55]

If i wanted to run a test/deca /dbol bulking cycle with fair doses.

how exactly would i be able to incorperate HCG into it?

During? or only in my PCT?

[baseline_9]

If i wanted to run a test/deca /dbol bulking cycle with fair doses.

how exactly would i be able to incorperate HCG into it?

During? or only in my PCT?

Click the 'got a PCT question' link in swiftos signature, page 1 will answer all ur questions


Another BUMP, this info is a must for all, is this not a sticky?

[Far from massive]

Dumb question but I have been thinking of getting some HCG from on online pharm where you are required to submit a payment then if you don't have a script fill out an online questionair for perusal by thier inhouse doctor then assuming all is well the HCG is supposed to ship within a couple of weeks. This seems like it may be a legit source ( they sure have a pretty legit looking website and I recognize the names of some of the "pharma" companies) but I still am not at all convinced it is real.

So my question is if I were to recieve some HCG and run it off cycle for a week or so would the changes in fullness of the testicals etc. allow me to judge whether I had a legit product?

I have only been here a little over a month so I can't ask for source checks yet, so if this option sounds doable it would allow me to get some before my next cycle in December. If this is the stupidest idea you ever heard, just let me know and I will just have to wait I guess.

[Swifto]

Dumb question but I have been thinking of getting some HCG from on online pharm where you are required to submit a payment then if you don't have a script fill out an online questionair for perusal by thier inhouse doctor then assuming all is well the HCG is supposed to ship within a couple of weeks. This seems like it may be a legit source ( they sure have a pretty legit looking website and I recognize the names of some of the "pharma" companies) but I still am not at all convinced it is real.

So my question is if I were to recieve some HCG and run it off cycle for a week or so would the changes in fullness of the testicals etc. allow me to judge whether I had a legit product?

I have only been here a little over a month so I can't ask for source checks yet, so if this option sounds doable it would allow me to get some before my next cycle in December. If this is the stupidest idea you ever heard, just let me know and I will just have to wait I guess.

IMO, yes.

[BOBfromfightclub]

Could HCG be "preloaded" for say a week before your cycle?

example 3 shots of HCG in the week before your first injection, then wait tell week 4 to start gain?

[Swifto]

Could HCG be "preloaded" for say a week before your cycle?

example 3 shots of HCG in the week before your first injection, then wait tell week 4 to start gain?

No point. It takes 2-3 weeks for endogenous LH and FSH to hit hypogondal levels on exogenous testosterone or other androgens that cause HPTA shutdown.

[MBMETC]

bump

[lew]

Swifto

Do you still recommend hcg at 250ius twice a week if I will be running 200 mg or 300mg of test e per week?

Or should I just run 1 shot of hcg at 250ius a week? Just wondered if the dosage of test determines amount of hcg used?

Thanks

Lew

[Relax007]

I've read through this thread and can't seem to get a clear answer on how many weeks HCG can be run for or when it should end? If I start HCG at week 2, do I run it all the way until week 14, when I start PCT or when do I end it? Also, I have seen some people say never run HCG over 4 weeks. What is the recommendation here?

Dbol 40ed/1-4 weeks
Test e 250x2/1-12 weeks
Deca 200x2/week 1-10 weeks
Winny 50mg/6-12 weeks
HCG 250iux2/8-11 or 2-11 week
Adex or Aromasin eod or e3d

PCT:
Clomid 100/50/50/50
Nolva 40/40/20/20

[kleaver]

*****

[BigDawg44]

Great post I'm currently I'n week 9 out 20 of my cycle running 150 eod of prop and was wondering if I should include it I'n my cycle since I'm thinking about including tren on week 10 at 75 Eod

[Swifto]

bump....

[baseline_9]

BUMPing this one for all the noobs...

And why is this not a sticky, Marcus?

[Yellow]

Hi Swifto,

High dosages of androgens can cause the body to stop or reduce a process called spermatogenesis.
BTW if we are using HCG while on cycle, do we still produce sperm? or Is the spermatogenesis process stopped or reduced while on cycle regardless using HCG or not?

Thanks, swifto...

[SMcB]

After reading about HCG , it seems that the proper use of this stuff while on cycle could theoretically lead to more permanent gains after a cycle, since HCG leads to quicker HPTA recovery. Anyone have experience with cycles with and without HCG use? What were the results?

[slimshady01]

I'm in my second week of test E at only 360mg a weeks. I was going to start at the beginning of week 3 to week 12 then pct. Also 250ui 2x a week same days I do the test. Does this sound ok or should I start now?

[Swifto]

Hi Swifto,

High dosages of androgens can cause the body to stop or reduce a process called spermatogenesis.
BTW if we are using HCG while on cycle, do we still produce sperm? or Is the spermatogenesis process stopped or reduced while on cycle regardless using HCG or not?

Spermatogenesis will slow when using androgens dramatically, but will resume (mostly) post AAS cessation. HCG will help spermatogenesis during this peroid and so will HMG. Both will provide the testes to remain functioning.
Thanks, swifto...

After reading about HCG, it seems that the proper use of this stuff while on cycle could theoretically lead to more permanent gains after a cycle, since HCG leads to quicker HPTA recovery. Anyone have experience with cycles with and without HCG use? What were the results?

I recover far quicker post cycle when using HCG at some point. Its a real rough ride without it.

I'm in my second week of test E at only 360mg a weeks. I was going to start at the beginning of week 3 to week 12 then pct. Also 250ui 2x a week same days I do the test. Does this sound ok or should I start now?

If you have enough, start week 1. If not start week 2-3.