HCG - How important is it?

[bjpennnn]

man its obvious you have done no research. You run the pct at the end of your cycle.

[gettingthere]

man its obvious you have done no research. You run the pct at the end of your cycle.

Done plenty of research before on most things to do with AAS, its just im not used to the pct (yes i know post = after cycle therapy) phase as im not looking at cycling just yet!!! i appreciate your help though dont get me wrong

By the way i think he is running Nolva at 40/20/20/20

[PK-V]

bolds

so if you were to use hcg on cycle it would eliminate the need for it in pct as your already prepped from using it on cycle to maintain endo use and you haven't been shutdown

so you can go straight into PCT recovery without

so the people that do use hcg for pct are the people who

have been cycling and have not been using hcg on cycle and then use it to a boost to the system as they are shutdown hard from not keeping there balls in the game?

[Swifto]

so if you were to use hcg on cycle it would eliminate the need for it in pct as your already prepped from using it on cycle to maintain endo use and you haven't been shutdown

so you can go straight into PCT recovery without

so the people that do use hcg for pct are the people who

have been cycling and have not been using hcg on cycle and then use it to a boost to the system as they are shutdown hard from not keeping there balls in the game?

Exactly right.

HCG use is warranted during PCT if it hasnt been used already during the cycle.

[Swifto]

Done plenty of research before on most things to do with AAS, its just im not used to the pct (yes i know post = after cycle therapy) phase as im not looking at cycling just yet!!! i appreciate your help though dont get me wrong

By the way i think he is running Nolva at 40/20/20/20

Have you actually read the first post of this entire thread. I answer all your questions?

[Ben-Lee]

swifto i tried opening a thread however didnt have much response. ive only found this site out not long ago. and now read your information and a bit annoyed i didnt find it earlier im on the 7th week of my omna250 only cycle which im running for 10 weeks. i hav pregnyl 5000iu clomid 100mg tabs and hav 20 of. also nolva im getting shortly is it to late to start running hcg ? should i run it in the last 3 weeks of my cycle ? from what ive been told from mates is to run it after and now after reading your information i wish i ran throughout the whole cycle. so basically all im asking is if i should begin my hcg now for the last 3 weeks of my cycle and at what dosage ? and then week 11 begin clomid cheers. this is my first cycle and have had good gains with minimal side effects want to ensure all is well after gained a solid 6.5kgs.

[RW3333]

Swifto,

I am in week 7 of my 10 week test cyp / eq cycle. I have not been using hcg , but got my hands on some a few days ago. How much do you recommend I take?

Thank you

[ArmyMan04]

Dude swifto this post just gave me a big chubby... so 3.5 inches...


..don't hate

[BennyLom]

Swifto,
On a first cycle, I want to use a lower dose of hCG (still young and not that big) and so a few questions.

1.) For mixing/diluting the hCG (5.000IU's), is this correct: If mixing 5000IU’s with 10ml water then 1ml = 500IU’s, mixed with 20ml then 1ml = 250Ius, 40ml should thus be 125IU’s, correct?

2.) How does 125IU's twice a week sound (8 week cycle)?

3.) Since I cannot find bact water I plan to use "water for irrigation" instead which is not as sterile. How long do you reckon this will last in a cooler once mixed?

[ArmyMan04]

Swifto,

3.) Since I cannot find bact water I plan to use "water for irrigation" instead which is not as sterile. How long do you reckon this will last in a cooler once mixed?

You can get bac water at AR-r (banner above) and vials, etc.

[MercuryEvo]

what do I mix the HCG in before drawing and injecting? the 50ml sterile viles from ar-r ??? Can I leave it in that vile and put it in the fridge? It comes in a glass vile so it's not resealable and I'm very worried about sterility

[panntastic]

is it a muti use vial? (like a aas 10ml vial)

[BJJ]

So how important is HCG?

When our HPTA's are "shutdown" we have to distinguish between short-term inhibtion and long-term dysfunction.

Short-term inhibition of testosterone production comes primarily from negative feedback at the pituitary and hypothalamus, which reduces LH output. This could be described as a reduction in the signal to produce testosterone. This LH suppression recovers quickly.

However, with time, it leads to testicular dysfunction. Without LH from the pituitary, the testes atrophy from disuse. This testicular dysfunction could be described as a reduction in the responsiveness to a signal to produce testosterone.

The hypothalamus and pituitary seem to recover fairly quickly following the use of androgens. GnRH, LH and FSH rise fairly quickly post cycle, but endogenous testosterone levels dont. As confirmed in this review by William Llewellyn. It shows that LH levels rise fairly quickly (on the 3rd week) after Testosterone Enanthate injections of 250mg weekly for 21 weeks. So it seems the hypothalamus and pituitary are not the problem in restarting endogenous testosterone production post cycle.

After recent correspondance with Dr.Crisler (Swale) he confirmed ganadotrophin levels were not to blame in restarting the HPTA. So what is?

If LH levels rise post cycle (the majority of the time) the reason why endogenous testosterone levels DONT rise, is the testes. Or testicular dysfunction. Testicular dysfunction is when the testes become atrophied from disuse or desensitised to ganadotrophins, such as LH. This could also be described as being the onset of primary hypogonadism.

Primary hypogonadism is when the testes no longer respond to LH. The testes have a lowered sperm concentration/production and endogenous testosterone level, although LH and FSH are above normal levels. This can be due to desease (Klinefelter's syndrome), over use of anabolic steroids , as described in this study or overuse of HCG . The simple answer to primary hypogonadism is HRT.

So if the testes (testicular dysfunction) are the main culprit in restoring testosterone production post cycle how can we maintain testicular function and endogenous testosterone production even when "shutdown" using andorgens? Simple - HCG.

HCG has the ability to maintain endogenous testosterone production and ITT (Intra-Testicular Testosterone) by stimulating the testes (directly) even when shutdown from androgens, such as Testosterone Enathate, shown in this study.

HCG is VERY important in cycles IMHO. It prevents the main reason the HPTA doesnt recover immediately post cycle - testicular dysfunction. It should be a staple of EVERY cycle causing shutdown IMHO.

I suggest HCG be used at 125-250ius 2-3 times weekly (as per Dr.Crisler's advice) with an AI throughout the cycle lasting 6-12 weeks. This will maintain testicular size and function and prevent testicular dysfunction. It should also be noted that administering over "500ius will cause an increase in estrogen and progesterone, further hindering recovery" - Dr.Crisler.


For those wanting to convert their HCG doses into something more managable. Here's how:

HCG comes in 1500ius and 5000ius amps. Usually from Pregnyl. Chinese suppliers also stock their HCG in these two denominations too.

You need to get some sterile empty 10ML glass serum vials. You can get these from AR-R .

You also need to get some bac. water. If you were to mix 5000ius with 10ML bac. water, 1ML = 500ius. If you were to mix 1500ius with 10ML bac. water, 1ML = 150ius.

Once mixed, refridgerate. I tend to use my mixed HCG within 30-45 days.

Its really that simple.


This thread has been written on correspondance from Dr.Crisler (Swale), Concilliator and my own research gathered.

The bold seems to be my case, as showed with my BW.
I decided to start HCG @ 500 iu eod for two weeks plus, in the first week, clomid @ 50 mg ed and nolva @ 20 mg ed, while in the second week only nolva @ 20 mg ed.

What do you think?

[Swifto]

Thats ok. Just kickstart your testes IMHO.

Control estrogen too. You dont want too much ER activity at the HP as it will further reduce endo. LH, FSH.

I'd do:

wk 1-3 HCG 500ius/ED or EOD
wk 1-4 Aromasin 10mg/EOD
wk 1-3-9 Tamox 20mg/ED, then ramp for 7 days to 40mg/ED, then 20mg/ED for 5-6 weeks
wk 3-9 Clomid 25mg/ED

[BJJ]

Thats ok. Just kickstart your testes IMHO.

Control estrogen too. You dont want too much ER activity at the HP as it will further reduce endo. LH, FSH.

I'd do:

wk 1-3 HCG 500ius/ED or EOD
wk 1-4 Aromasin 10mg/EOD
wk 1-3-9 Tamox 20mg/ED, then ramp for 7 days to 40mg/ED, then 20mg/ED for 5-6 weeks
wk 3-9 Clomid 25mg/ED

Well I am already at week 4:

wk 1/3-4 clomid 100 mg ed - 50 mg ed
wk 1-4 tamox 40/20/30/30

So I plan to run two more weeks as follows:

wk 5-6 tamoxifen 20/20 ed
wk 5-6 hcg 500 iu eod
wk 5-6 exemestane 12.5 mg eod (I have 25 mg tabs so I cannot make 10 mg)

Today I took another BW and if needed I will go over the 6 weeks.

Thank you for your response.

[MercuryEvo]

what do I mix the HCG in before drawing and injecting? the 50ml sterile viles from ar-r??? Can I leave it in that vile and put it in the fridge? It comes in a glass vile so it's not resealable and I'm very worried about sterility

anyone know?

[tronics]

The solvents are similar to bac water. There usually some sort of bac water with BA in or something similar. I use the solvents and 9ml bac water usually.

Good question though.

i only have the 1 ml of solvent i dont have any bac water, can i just use this?

edit* i had 2 amps of the 1 ml solvent so i used 2mls...i had 5000iu of hcg so 250iu is now .1 ml?

[Swifto]

anyone know?

Once its mixed in the sealed sterile vial, its fine to keep in the friedge.

When you inject just swab the top of the vial, draw, inject.

Done.

i only have the 1 ml of solvent i dont have any bac water, can i just use this?

edit* i had 2 amps of the 1 ml solvent so i used 2mls...i had 5000iu of hcg so 250iu is now .1 ml?

Make it more managable using a sealed sterile vial and some more bac water.

If you had read post #1 to the bottom. You'de know I already explain this.

[stevey_6t9]

swift, hypothetically speaking... if i was running test enanthate and during the 2 week waiting period to start PCT, would running hCG be beneficial during those 2 weeks up until pct.

[bowers32]

Swift... there is some great info in your posts on this subject.. so thanks.

You did say something I wanted to ask about... you mentioned that 250 twice a week of HCG should be good unless you are older...

At 48 and doing 200 of test cyp... should I look to increasing to three times a week?

If so is it another does of 250 or are you taking the weekly total of 500 and dividing that up into three doses.

Thanks again for your vaulable expertise on this subject.

[Swifto]

swift, hypothetically speaking... if i was running test enanthate and during the 2 week waiting period to start PCT, would running hCG be beneficial during those 2 weeks up until pct.

Thats a good question.

If one doesnt recover very well post cycle, I'll have them ramp their HCG dose slightly during this time, then conduct a full (5-6 week) PCT with SERM(s).

Swift... there is some great info in your posts on this subject.. so thanks.

You did say something I wanted to ask about... you mentioned that 250 twice a week of HCG should be good unless you are older...

At 48 and doing 200 of test cyp... should I look to increasing to three times a week?

If so is it another does of 250 or are you taking the weekly total of 500 and dividing that up into three doses.

Thanks again for your vaulable expertise on this subject.

Yes, more may be needed.

I'm only young and seem to bounce back very quickly post cycle and use 250ius 2x week.

For somone older, I'd go with 250ius 3x week. See how that goes.

[Jaakoppi]

How should split 5000iu HCG during test e 500mg/week for 10 weeks, and Methanox 30mg first 4 weeks ed. Maybe 250iu every other day??

[ArmyMan04]

How should split 5000iu HCG during test e 500mg/week for 10 weeks, and Methanox 30mg first 4 weeks ed. Maybe 250iu every other day??

Read his post it tells you...

[Jaakoppi]

Ok so let's say 250iu of HCG 2 x week DURING cycle? Then Tamoxifen 40/20/20 after cycle. How about that?

[Swifto]

Ok so let's say 250iu of HCG 2 x week DURING cycle? Then Tamoxifen 40/20/20 after cycle. How about that?

Tamox needs to be 40/20/20/20/20/20.

[Jaakoppi]

Tamox needs to be 40/20/20/20/20/20.

That's a lot! I haven't got so much of Tamox. I can run 40/20/20/10. Hope that's enough.

[Matt]

Do you have any thoughts on this mate..

hCG DOSING:

Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) is a peptide hormone that mimics the action of luteinizing hormone (LH). LH is the hormone that stimulates the testes to produce testosterone .
When you take AAS LH levels decline. The absence of an LH signal from the pituitary causes the testes to stop producing testosterone, this causes you're testes to shrink
Based on studies with normal men using steroids , 100iu hCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function without causing desensitization/saturation associated with high doses of hCG.
A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a thrice weekly shot of 250iu hCG, or possibly a twice weekly shot of 500iu. However, it is most desirable to adhere to a lower more frequent dose of hCG to mimic the body’s natural LH release and minimize estrogen conversion.

The above protocol is by Eric Portaz.

Another protocol is the blast method, this can be used if for some reason you haven't ran hCG on cycle.
This is often used towards the end of a cycle and/or the run up to PCT.
Much higher doses are used, anywhere from 1000iu-5000iu.
An example would be 2500iu - 5000iu shot 2 x wkly for 4wks.

I think it's worth pointing out that in clinical studies it was shown that it took a single 10000iu shot to desensitize the leydig cells for 96hrs.


From my latest research i am now using and advocating the protocol below.
Here is the science behind this protocol:
An in vivo injection or an episode of LH secretion induced by GnRH, results in stimulation of the side-chain cleavage enzyme with the subsequent release of testosterone within 30-60 minutes of LH stimulation. The acute response to an injection of LH is dramatic in some species such as the rat and the ram but is much more attenuated in the human. This testosterone response lasts approximately 24-48 hours. If human chorionic gonadotrophin is used as an LH substitute, the kinetics of the initial stimulation are similar to LH but a second peak of testosterone secretion is evidence with hCG and occurs 48-72 hours after the initial injection. This biphasic pattern has been attributed to the observation that between 24 and 48 hours after an LH or hCG injection, the Leydig cells are refractory to further stimulation by either hormone. The second phase of testosterone secretion after hCG but not LH is associated with the longer half-life of hCG in comparison to LH. The hCG levels persist in the circulation and, following recovery from the refractoriness, testosterone levels increase. This observation has significant clinical importance since, in many men, a single weekly injection of hCG will suffice to maintain optimum testosterone responses rather than the frequent practice of giving injections of hCG two to three times per week.

So, it's better to use around 1000iu E5-7D.

[BJJ]

Do you have any thoughts on this mate..

hCG DOSING:

Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) is a peptide hormone that mimics the action of luteinizing hormone (LH). LH is the hormone that stimulates the testes to produce testosterone .
When you take AAS LH levels decline. The absence of an LH signal from the pituitary causes the testes to stop producing testosterone, this causes you're testes to shrink
Based on studies with normal men using steroids , 100iu hCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function without causing desensitization/saturation associated with high doses of hCG.
A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a thrice weekly shot of 250iu hCG, or possibly a twice weekly shot of 500iu. However, it is most desirable to adhere to a lower more frequent dose of hCG to mimic the body’s natural LH release and minimize estrogen conversion.

The above protocol is by Eric Portaz.

Another protocol is the blast method, this can be used if for some reason you haven't ran hCG on cycle.
This is often used towards the end of a cycle and/or the run up to PCT.
Much higher doses are used, anywhere from 1000iu-5000iu.
An example would be 2500iu - 5000iu shot 2 x wkly for 4wks.

I think it's worth pointing out that in clinical studies it was shown that it took a single 10000iu shot to desensitize the leydig cells for 96hrs.


From my latest research i am now using and advocating the protocol below.
Here is the science behind this protocol:
An in vivo injection or an episode of LH secretion induced by GnRH, results in stimulation of the side-chain cleavage enzyme with the subsequent release of testosterone within 30-60 minutes of LH stimulation. The acute response to an injection of LH is dramatic in some species such as the rat and the ram but is much more attenuated in the human. This testosterone response lasts approximately 24-48 hours. If human chorionic gonadotrophin is used as an LH substitute, the kinetics of the initial stimulation are similar to LH but a second peak of testosterone secretion is evidence with hCG and occurs 48-72 hours after the initial injection. This biphasic pattern has been attributed to the observation that between 24 and 48 hours after an LH or hCG injection, the Leydig cells are refractory to further stimulation by either hormone. The second phase of testosterone secretion after hCG but not LH is associated with the longer half-life of hCG in comparison to LH. The hCG levels persist in the circulation and, following recovery from the refractoriness, testosterone levels increase. This observation has significant clinical importance since, in many men, a single weekly injection of hCG will suffice to maintain optimum testosterone responses rather than the frequent practice of giving injections of hCG two to three times per week.

So, it's better to use around 1000iu E5-7D.

Interesting, thanks for posting.
Curious to see swifto's answer.

In regard of HCG, do you know its half life?
And is there any half life difference if injected via IM or sub-q?

[Swifto]

Larger inital doses may needed to kickstart the testes if testicular atrophy has set in. Then down to normal 250-1000ius shots.

Other than that the article is good.

[PK-V]

Got a packet of 5 x 1500iu amps of hCG

so if I use the 1500iu amp crack it open and add the solvent without directly pouring it on the powder. next swirl for a little bit then draw in the syringe and place in a sterile vial

I worked it out as a 1500iu amp with 3ml of bac water to receive a hCG dose of 250iu per .5ml injection is this correct

I used this
https://www.steroidscouts.com/hcgcalc.html




how many days will hCG last when reconstructed?

do I keep them in the fridge once reconstructed?

how long does it last unconstructed, is it until the best before date?

should I keep the unconstructed stuff in the freezer?

big thanks

[SoFloTC]

The vial my HCG came in is super tiny, i doubt 10ml of bac water will even come close to fitting.... what should i do? also what syringe do i use to take out 10ml bac water? my syringes are only 3ml unless i just keep refilling it lol

[Swifto]

Got a packet of 5 x 1500iu amps of hCG

so if I use the 1500iu amp crack it open and add the solvent without directly pouring it on the powder. next swirl for a little bit then draw in the syringe and place in a sterile vial

I worked it out as a 1500iu amp with 3ml of bac water to receive a hCG dose of 250iu per .5ml injection is this correct

I used this
https://www.steroidscouts.com/hcgcalc.html




how many days will hCG last when reconstructed?

do I keep them in the fridge once reconstructed?

how long does it last unconstructed, is it until the best before date?

should I keep the unconstructed stuff in the freezer?

big thanks

All this is in this thread somewhere mate.

45 days once mixed. Keep it refridgerated.

The unmixed powder can be kept at room temp in a dry, dark place.

The vial my HCG came in is super tiny, i doubt 10ml of bac water will even come close to fitting.... what should i do? also what syringe do i use to take out 10ml bac water? my syringes are only 3ml unless i just keep refilling it lol

Get more syrniges and barrells. AR-R sells all you need.

[SoFloTC]

I started my cycle today, 2nd cycle,

1-10 500mg Test E 2 shots weekly
Got Tamox for my PCT

I only have 5000iu's of HCG .. i want to take 250x2 shots a week.. this will only last me though up to 45 days (6 weeks) before it starts going bad...? so when should i start the HCG? with my first test shot or should i wait and start week 4 so it goes through week 10 at my last shot so then my testes are for sure running by my pct time?

[BJJ]

Hey Swifto, have you ever thought about running a PCT with toremifene, tamoxifen and clomiphene all together?

[Swifto]

Hey Swifto, have you ever thought about running a PCT with toremifene, tamoxifen and clomiphene all together?

That would be overboard mate.

The reason we want to use a SERM is because they exert ER antagonism at the hypothalamus. All SERMs do that, whilst some of their effects differ at the pituitary.

Tamoxifen and I suspect Toremifene seem to sensitise the pituitary to GnRH from the HP. Its been proven in Tamox and I have seen one paper on Tore increasing sensitivity at the PT in females (I'm not talking about estrogen primiing, that doesnt exist in males)

Stay with me...

Some Endo's suggest one SERM (Tamox) is sufficient to cause this ER antagonism and upregulation (if you will) of the PT.

I prefer to use the combination of Tore/Tamox. You want to use the least possible dose and amount of compounds and get the MOST results. Remember SERMs (especially 1st Gen) arnt particularly good for us either.

3 SERMs is too much, 2 SERMs works very well and I suspect so would Tamoxifen alone. Although I have recovered in weeks with Tore/Tamox better than either alone.

[Swifto]

I started my cycle today, 2nd cycle,

1-10 500mg Test E 2 shots weekly
Got Tamox for my PCT

I only have 5000iu's of HCG.. i want to take 250x2 shots a week.. this will only last me though up to 45 days (6 weeks) before it starts going bad...? so when should i start the HCG? with my first test shot or should i wait and start week 4 so it goes through week 10 at my last shot so then my testes are for sure running by my pct time?

Start week 4.

[meat&2veg]

SWIFTO...

Hey great read, I have followed a couple of your posts...You sound like you know your stuff... So I am wanting your advice for my next corse please bro???

I am going to run:

Weeks 1 - 10 - 400mg Deca .
Weeks 1 - 12 - 500mg Sus250.

(I will be injecting the above as: 1ml Sus250 with 2ml Deca every Monday & Thursday).

The question is after reading your stuff and a load of other blogs, am I going to be right to take the following:

Weeks 1 - 12 - .25 EOD of Arimidex .
Weeks 4 - 14 - 250 iu's of HCG (3 times a week).

WAIT 18 DAYS FROM LAST SUS JAB, THEN:

1st Week - Take 100mg Clomid + 40mg Nolva.
2nd Week - Take 50mg Clomid + 40mg Nolva.
3rd Week - Take 25mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva.
4th week - Take 25mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva.

Would really appreciate your help & anyone else's.

Many thanks.

[BJJ]

That would be overboard mate.

The reason we want to use a SERM is because they exert ER antagonism at the hypothalamus. All SERMs do that, whilst some of their effects differ at the pituitary.

Tamoxifen and I suspect Toremifene seem to sensitise the pituitary to GnRH from the HP. Its been proven in Tamox and I have seen one paper on Tore increasing sensitivity at the PT in females (I'm not talking about estrogen primiing, that doesnt exist in males)

Stay with me...

Some Endo's suggest one SERM (Tamox) is sufficient to cause this ER antagonism and upregulation (if you will) of the PT.

I prefer to use the combination of Tore/Tamox. You want to use the least possible dose and amount of compounds and get the MOST results. Remember SERMs (especially 1st Gen) arnt particularly good for us either.

3 SERMs is too much, 2 SERMs works very well and I suspect so would Tamoxifen alone. Although I have recovered in weeks with Tore/Tamox better than either alone.

Thank you

[Swifto]

SWIFTO...

Hey great read, I have followed a couple of your posts...You sound like you know your stuff... So I am wanting your advice for my next corse please bro???

I am going to run:

Weeks 1 - 10 - 400mg Deca .
Weeks 1 - 12 - 500mg Sus250.

(I will be injecting the above as: 1ml Sus250 with 2ml Deca every Monday & Thursday).

The question is after reading your stuff and a load of other blogs, am I going to be right to take the following:

Weeks 1 - 12 - .25 EOD of Arimidex .
Weeks 4 - 14 - 250 iu's of HCG (3 times a week).

WAIT 18 DAYS FROM LAST SUS JAB, THEN:

1st Week - Take 100mg Clomid + 40mg Nolva.
2nd Week - Take 50mg Clomid + 40mg Nolva.
3rd Week - Take 25mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva.
4th week - Take 25mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva.

Would really appreciate your help & anyone else's.

Many thanks.

That sounds fine. I would start the HCG at week 1 or 3 the latest, I'd prefer week 1.

Dont need a frontload of both Clomid and Tamox. Go with Tamox 40mg/ED for the first 5-7 days. Clomid at 50mg/ED the same, then 25mg/ED. PCT should last 5-6 weeks, not 4.

[meat&2veg]

That sounds fine. I would start the HCG at week 1 or 3 the latest, I'd prefer week 1.

Dont need a frontload of both Clomid and Tamox. Go with Tamox 40mg/ED for the first 5-7 days. Clomid at 50mg/ED the same, then 25mg/ED. PCT should last 5-6 weeks, not 4.

Cheers Swifto...

So just to be clear about the PCT. I do start it 18 days after my last jab of Sus?
But just start how and with what???
i.e
Week 1
Week 2
Week 3
And so on till week 6.

If you can give me the break down of how much of what I should take over the 6 week period please bud?

Also do you think my stack is good? Sus 250 & Deca ...I have had mixed reports about Deca so not sure but I dont really want to take any oral's as its bad for my liver...Plus I dont wanna blow up like a balloon, just wanna get strong and cut with most gains kept.
I know my diet is key to keeping gains...Just wanted to know if you think anything else would stack nice with Sus 250?

Many thanks again dude.