HCG - How important is it?

[BBall6]

What's your cycle? If you're running Test E and you have 2 weeks of injections left..... that means you have about 4 weeks to use HCG still. I would run it if I had it.

500iu's 3x a week for the 1st two weeks..... then for the next two weeks, while your waiting for the enanthate esther to clear, i'd run 250iu's 3x a week.

I store it in a sterile vial in the refridgerator.

~Haz~

Yeah xephonics, do what Haz suggested. That is the way a majority of the people used to take HCG according to the research/reading I have done. I do like Swiftos idea better if you have it through the whole cycle, but doing a heavier dose at the end would still be better than nothing.

[Hazard]

Since I received no clues from you on this post, I'll take it a s a "NO".

Yes you can still use HCG ..... maybe a lower dosage like 125iu's 2-3 times per week.....

~Haz~

[Hazard]

I do like Swiftos idea better if you have it through the whole cycle, but doing a heavier dose at the end would still be better than nothing.

Just to be clear..... I would prefer it that way also..... but since he is already near the end of his cycle..... I've laid out what he can do to try and make recovery easier at this point.

~Haz~

[BJJ]

Yes you can still use HCG ..... maybe a lower dosage like 125iu's 2-3 times per week.....

~Haz~

thank you very much.
I think though, having made a big mistake.
Once received my 5000 IU HCG, I have put it in the refrigerator before mixing it and it is still there!
Is it still usable, as far as you are concerned?

[Hazard]

thank you very much.
I think though, having made a big mistake.
Once received my 5000 IU HCG , I have put it in the refrigerator before mixing it and it is still there!
Is it still usable, as far as you are concerned?

I don't see why not..... I don't think the refridgeration would hurt the powder.

~Haz~

[BBall6]

thank you very much.
I think though, having made a big mistake.
Once received my 5000 IU HCG , I have put it in the refrigerator before mixing it and it is still there!
Is it still usable, as far as you are concerned?

You'll be fine. Just be sure and refrigerate after adding the bacteriostatic water to it as it will greatly extend the life/ potency of it.

[BBall6]

Just to be clear..... I would prefer it that way also..... but since he is already near the end of his cycle..... I've laid out what he can do to try and make recovery easier at this point.

~Haz~

I realize that, I was just throwing my $.02 in there too

[BJJ]

thank you both of you.

[Swifto]

I don't see why not..... I don't think the refridgeration would hurt the powder.

~Haz~

Actually, some HCG (in powder form) comes in a cold bag. Thats how I have seen it in the UK anyway, from private doctor surgery's.

[Hazard]

Actually, some HCG (in powder form) comes in a cold bag. Thats how I have seen it in the UK anyway, from private doctor surgery's.

Interesting..... so it wont really matter either way? Mine has never come in a cold pack..... just room temp.

My fathers prescription HCG comes in powder form and also at room temp.....

~Haz~

[Hazard]

Hey swifto..... maybe you can help with this. I'll attach the link for a thread where HCG and prolactin came up..... any info would be awesome......

URGENT _ What does Testosterone do to IGF-I

[Swifto]

Interesting..... so it wont really matter either way? Mine has never come in a cold pack..... just room temp.

My fathers prescription HCG comes in powder form and also at room temp.....

~Haz~

I dont think it matters a lot. Although once re-contristuted, I need to be refridgerated.

[Swifto]

bump...

[Turin]

I just got my HCG pack today,

Package says:
Essex Pharma: Predalon 5000 I.E.

It comes in a packet with 6 ampules, 3x powders and 3x 1ml liquids.

I have never done a HCG run before and I am not very savvy on I.E. and unit measurements, so I just want to make sure I understand this correctly.

If each ampule is 5000i.e. and that is 1ml ... A ml syringe is broken down into 10 units... If I want a 500i.e. injection that is 1 unit mark on the syringe correct?

A 1ml syringe is frickin small and measuring out 1 unit is not bad but some people were saying 250i.e. .. thats half a unit measurement, I would have to get some pretty tiny syringes to get that drawn correctly.

Do I have this straight or am I completely wrong? I dont want to draw up and inject the wrong dosage of this stuff..

Also people mentioned storage, can someone gives some details on how to safely store the remaining content? ... Can I just draw it all into one syringe and store it in that? (not inj. from that same one of course)..

[Swifto]

I just got my HCG pack today,

Package says:
Essex Pharma: Predalon 5000 I.E.

It comes in a packet with 6 ampules, 3x powders and 3x 1ml liquids.

I have never done a HCG run before and I am not very savvy on I.E. and unit measurements, so I just want to make sure I understand this correctly.

If each ampule is 5000i.e. and that is 1ml ... A ml syringe is broken down into 10 units... If I want a 500i.e. injection that is 1 unit mark on the syringe correct?

A 1ml syringe is frickin small and measuring out 1 unit is not bad but some people were saying 250i.e. .. thats half a unit measurement, I would have to get some pretty tiny syringes to get that drawn correctly.

Do I have this straight or am I completely wrong? I dont want to draw up and inject the wrong dosage of this stuff..

Also people mentioned storage, can someone gives some details on how to safely store the remaining content? ... Can I just draw it all into one syringe and store it in that? (not inj. from that same one of course)..

Get some sterile 10ML empty vials and some extra sterile bac. water. You can get them from AR-R . Then mix the 5000ius with 10ML of bac. water. 1ML = 500ius HCG.

[marcus300]

bump

[wrathchild212]

I just started my 12week cycle today (first injection)..i am doing sustanon 500 - 750mgs with deca 400mgs..should i immediatley start HCG at lets say 250IU's 2 x a week ?
and i would run it until a day before PCT am i right?

[Swifto]

I just started my 12week cycle today (first injection)..i am doing sustanon 500 - 750mgs with deca 400mgs..should i immediatley start HCG at lets say 250IU's 2 x a week ?
and i would run it until a day before PCT am i right?

Yes.

With an AI.

[Skippa]

Yes.

With an AI.

I read a very interesting article stating

"For preservation of testicular sensitivity, use 100iu hCG ED starting 7 days after your first AAS dose. At the end of the cycle, drop the hCG two weeks before the AAS clear the system. For example, you would drop hCG about the same time as your last Testosterone Enanthate shot. Or, if you are ending the cycle with orals, you would drop the hCG about 10 days before your last oral dose. This will allow for a sudden and even clearance in hormone levels, while initiating LH and FSH production from the pituitary, to begin stimulating your testes to produce testosterone ."


Can you please check this article out swifto and get back to me about your thoughts. It made alot of sense to me and help me understand HCG's use in bodybuilding.

Let me know...

Cheers

http://dangilliland.wordpress.com/20...-bodybuilding/

[Swifto]

I read a very interesting article stating

"For preservation of testicular sensitivity, use 100iu hCG ED starting 7 days after your first AAS dose. At the end of the cycle, drop the hCG two weeks before the AAS clear the system. For example, you would drop hCG about the same time as your last Testosterone Enanthate shot. Or, if you are ending the cycle with orals, you would drop the hCG about 10 days before your last oral dose. This will allow for a sudden and even clearance in hormone levels, while initiating LH and FSH production from the pituitary, to begin stimulating your testes to produce testosterone ."


Can you please check this article out swifto and get back to me about your thoughts. It made alot of sense to me and help me understand HCG's use in bodybuilding.

Let me know...

Cheers

http://dangilliland.wordpress.com/20...-bodybuilding/

You can stop the HCG when you stop the long estered androgen, yes. As androgen levels begin to decline, LH/FSH will rise, but the hypothalamus needs to sense a near hypogondal levels for LH to activate.

Some ramp there HCG dose during this peroid and it seems to work, but I dont see the point if one has avoided testicular dysfunction and the testes are still functioning. Your only going to then risk desensitising the testes to endogenous LH.

There are many pro's/con's to stopping the HCG and ramping the HCG dose in the leading days running to PCT. See what works for you, but I think stopping the HCG a few days out from PCT is advised.

[Swifto]

bump

[J_SHOCK89]

I keep hearing all these wonders about HCG one I am running a cycle of 1000 mg a week of test for 10 weeks 400-500 mg a week of tren at week four i am going to run anadrol for 50 mg a day for the last 6 weeks and I am also runnin eq for the last 5 weeks at 500 mg a week when should i administer my HCG and should i take with chlomid also I heard after running high dosages of test E for a long period of time its good to run some prop for a few weeks at the end of it ne help would be great thanks guys.

[Swifto]

I keep hearing all these wonders about HCG one I am running a cycle of 1000 mg a week of test for 10 weeks 400-500 mg a week of tren at week four i am going to run anadrol for 50 mg a day for the last 6 weeks and I am also runnin eq for the last 5 weeks at 500 mg a week when should i administer my HCG and should i take with chlomid also I heard after running high dosages of test E for a long period of time its good to run some prop for a few weeks at the end of it ne help would be great thanks guys.

I'm not sure why you running long acting compounds like EQ for 5 weeks, your cycle may need some work. But I'm guessing you have atleast 10+ cycles under your belt if your using "100mg/wk Test"?

HCG is best used on cycle. At 250ius 2-3 times a week. If you were to start X amount of weeks in...Lets say over 5-6 weeks, a larger initial dose would be needed before reverting back to 250ius 2-3 times per week.

[syd-bloke]

Great post Swifto, could you do me a favor and help me out here?

To take or not to take, that is the question (HCG)

Thanks Champ

[michael tyson]

Bump

[SG2009]

So how important is HCG?

When our HPTA's are "shutdown" we have to distinguish between short-term inhibtion and long-term dysfunction.

Short-term inhibition of testosterone production comes primarily from negative feedback at the pituitary and hypothalamus, which reduces LH output. This could be described as a reduction in the signal to produce testosterone. This LH suppression recovers quickly.

However, with time, it leads to testicular dysfunction. Without LH from the pituitary, the testes atrophy from disuse. This testicular dysfunction could be described as a reduction in the responsiveness to a signal to produce testosterone.

The hypothalamus and pituitary seem to recover fairly quickly following the use of androgens. GnRH, LH and FSH rise fairly quickly post cycle, but endogenous testosterone levels dont. As confirmed in this review by William Llewellyn. It shows that LH levels rise fairly quickly (on the 3rd week) after Testosterone Enanthate injections of 250mg weekly for 21 weeks. So it seems the hypothalamus and pituitary are not the problem in restarting endogenous testosterone production post cycle.

After recent correspondance with Dr.Crisler (Swale) he confirmed ganadotrophin levels were not to blame in restarting the HPTA. So what is?

If LH levels rise post cycle (the majority of the time) the reason why endogenous testosterone levels DONT rise, is the testes. Or testicular dysfunction. Testicular dysfunction is when the testes become atrophied from disuse or desensitised to ganadotrophins, such as LH. This could also be described as being the onset of primary hypogonadism.

Primary hypogonadism is when the testes no longer respond to LH. The testes have a lowered sperm concentration/production and endogenous testosterone level, although LH and FSH are above normal levels. This can be due to desease (Klinefelter's syndrome), over use of anabolic steroids , as described in this study or overuse of HCG . The simple answer to primary hypogonadism is HRT.

So if the testes (testicular dysfunction) are the main culprit in restoring testosterone production post cycle how can we maintain testicular function and endogenous testosterone production even when "shutdown" using andorgens? Simple - HCG.

HCG has the ability to maintain endogenous testosterone production and ITT (Intra-Testicular Testosterone) by stimulating the testes (directly) even when shutdown from androgens, such as Testosterone Enathate, shown in this study.

HCG is VERY important in cycles IMHO. It prevents the main reason the HPTA doesnt recover immediately post cycle - testicular dysfunction. It should be a staple of EVERY cycle causing shutdown IMHO.

I suggest HCG be used at 125-250ius 2-3 times weekly (as per Dr.Crisler's advice) with an AI throughout the cycle. This will maintain testicular size and function and prevent testicular dysfunction. It should also be noted that administering over "500ius will cause an increase in estrogen and progesterone, further hindering recovery" - Dr.Crisler.


For those wanting to convert their HCG doses into something more managable. Here's how:

HCG comes in 1500ius and 5000ius amps. Usually from Pregnyl. Chinese suppliers also stock their HCG in these two denominations too.

You need to get some sterile empty 10ML glass serum vials. You can get these from AR-R .

You also need to get some bac. water. If you were to mix 5000ius with 10ML bac. water, 1ML = 500ius. If you were to mix 1500ius with 10ML bac. water, 1ML = 150ius.

Once mixed, refridgerate. I tend to use my mixed HCG within 30-45 days.

Its really that simple.


This thread has been written on correspondance from Dr.Crisler (Swale), Concilliator and my own research gathered.

great info. thanks for posting it here.

[Swifto]

bump

[Indian Muscle]

Currently on week 4 of this cycle:-

Week 1-8 Deca , 200mgs per week in one shot (Monday)
Week 1-8 Sust, 500mgs per week in two shots (Sunday & Thursday)
Week 9-10 Sust,250 mgs per week (Monday)
Week 11-12 PCT of Nolva and Clomid

When would i start HCG and at what dose? Please help

[KimboHalfSlice]

I would have started taking hCG by Week 4 at the latest.

I suggest you take 200iu of hCG every 2nd day.

Here's some instructions I posted earlier today: Testicals shrank.... help

[Indian Muscle]

I would have started taking hCG by Week 4 at the latest.

I suggest you take 200iu of hCG every 2nd day.

Here's some instructions I posted earlier today: Testicals shrank.... help

I agree with you on this and this is what i had planned but got confused because of the suggestion given on this thread You'll want to read this!

[KimboHalfSlice]

I agree with you on this and this is what i had planned but got confused because of the suggestion given on this thread You'll want to read this!

No no no, that's bad advice.

You have the two following choices:
1) Use hCG to stop your balls going out of action in the first place
2) Use hCG to give your balls a kick start when they've already shrunken and withered

The first option is far more preferable. Of course, for people who have shrunken balls, it will help to take hCG, but the best thing to do is take hCG while on-cycle to minimise testicular damage.

I started a thread about this recently: Can we KILL this topic once and for all please: Using hCG for PCT

[Swifto]

No no no, that's bad advice.

You have the two following choices:
1) Use hCG to stop your balls going out of action in the first place
2) Use hCG to give your balls a kick start when they've already shrunken and withered

The first option is far more preferable. Of course, for people who have shrunken balls, it will help to take hCG, but the best thing to do is take hCG while on-cycle to minimise testicular damage.

I started a thread about this recently: Can we KILL this topic once and for all please: Using hCG for PCT

Agreed.

[dec11]

i see he's gone off the idea of mixing it in a vial with test lol

[management26]

Does running HCG during my cycle affect the dose I run my adex at and if so why?

[Swifto]

Does running HCG during my cycle affect the dose I run my adex at and if so why?

It wont raise estrogen too much to use a higher dose of your desired AI, no. Larger doses may, but not 250ius.

[Indian Muscle]

No no no, that's bad advice.

You have the two following choices:
1) Use hCG to stop your balls going out of action in the first place
2) Use hCG to give your balls a kick start when they've already shrunken and withered

The first option is far more preferable. Of course, for people who have shrunken balls, it will help to take hCG, but the best thing to do is take hCG while on-cycle to minimise testicular damage.

I started a thread about this recently: Can we KILL this topic once and for all please: Using hCG for PCT

Thanks for the reply guys, So i will start HCG from week 4 but when will i stop the dosage? Till week 8 i will be on cycle, Week 9&10 just 250 mgs of Sust followed by week 11&12 PCT is my current plan.

[KimboHalfSlice]

Thanks for the reply guys, So i will start HCG from week 4 but when will i stop the dosage?

I'm not an endocrinologist or any sort of medical practitioner, but I have some thoughts on when to stop taking hCG .

I think it's a good idea to stop taking hCG on the same day you stop taking steroids . I outlined my rationale for this in a recent post:

Testicals shrank.... help

You're free to accept or reject my advice, I'm not putting it forward as the gospel truth, and I could very well end up to be proven wrong.

[99vorsi]

WHere do you get more bac. water to dilute it with??

[99vorsi]

nevermind found it

[Indian Muscle]

I bought a pack of 5000IU HCG and on the pack it says Intramuscular injection only but i have read that it can be shot in the fat of the stomach, What do you guys suggest?

Another question - I have 5000IU HCG, 10ML water and Insulin syringes of 1ML. I will mix 5000IU HCG with 10ML water,if i want to take 500IU per shot then i would fill the entire 1ML syringe and if it is 250IU Per shot then half of the syringe. am i rite?