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  1. #41
    Critical Mass's Avatar
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    Myostatin increases after 8 weeks. Thats why you stop gaining.

  2. #42
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    whooow big read but some good pointers.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie Rowland View Post
    You can run test enanthate for 12 weeks or longer but at the 8 week point you would need to increase the dosages to continue making noticeable gains. It's not well understood as to why steroid cycles stop working well after 8 weeks but according to William Llewelln in his book ANABOLICS 9TH EDITION-" it's believed to be related to the new metabolic limits placed on muscle cells under the influece of a certain dosage of steroids , not insensitivity to the AAS. Classic downregulation does not occur with these drugs and even if it did, rotating steroids would not prevent it".

    In regards to time on= time off. Thats is fine but you will be in a constant state of gaining muscle then losing muscle. It's called YO-YOING! You cannot come off of all drugs for that length of time and expect to maintain your gains. I have learned that the body will hold onto all of it's size (minus water weight) for about 2 weeks.

    In regards to the 2 week deload you can do any PCT during the 2 weeks off or bridge with a base like testosterone and/or smaller amounts of all the slow acting drugs used in the reload. The goal is to hold onto all mass while reducing anabolic hormones in the body, then come back using more anabolics during reload to make continued progress. More training volume and protein would also be needed when returning to the 8 week reload.
    Great Read!

    So how long can I stay on this Blast and 2week off period? can this continue entire year

    Will this regimen permanently shut down natty test production?

    Can any combination of AS be used during 8 weeks?

    What other side effects might this regiment have....

    I have just been drilled Time ON = Time OFF for the longest time so its a lil hard to grasp this concept

    thnx

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridedivefx View Post
    Great Read!

    So how long can I stay on this Blast and 2week off period? can this continue entire year

    Will this regimen permanently shut down natty test production?

    Can any combination of AS be used during 8 weeks?

    What other side effects might this regiment have....

    I have just been drilled Time ON = Time OFF for the longest time so its a lil hard to grasp this concept

    thnx
    same here

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by omna82 View Post
    Myostatin increases after 8 weeks. Thats why you stop gaining.
    This is certainly a possibility. Here's an article off of pubmed explaining why gains stop after 8 weeks!


    The following may be the answer as this article on myostatin (a powerful muscle growth inhibitor) shows that after 8 weeks on Testoterone, myostatin levels rise significantly. When you stop the testosterone , myostatin levels go back to normal.

    Measurement of myostatin concentrations in human serum: Circulating concentrations in young and older men and effects of testosterone administration.

    Lakshman KM, Bhasin S, Corcoran C, Collins-Racie LA, Tchistiakova L, Forlow SB, St Ledger K, Burczynski ME, Dorner AJ, Lavallie ER.
    Section of Endocrinology, Diabetes, and Nutrition, Boston University School of Medicine, Boston Medical Center, 670 Albany Street, Boston, MA 02118, United States.
    Methodological problems, including binding of myostatin to plasma proteins and cross-reactivity of assay reagents with other proteins, have confounded myostatin measurements. Here we describe development of an accurate assay for measuring myostatin concentrations in humans. Monoclonal antibodies that bind to distinct regions of myostatin served as capture and detector antibodies in a sandwich ELISA that used acid treatment to dissociate myostatin from binding proteins. Serum from myostatin-deficient Belgian Blue cattle was used as matrix and recombinant human myostatin as standard. The quantitative range was 0.15-37.50 ng/mL. Intra- and inter-assay CVs in low, mid, and high range were 4.1%, 4.7%, and 7.2%, and 3.9%, 1.6%, and 5.2%, respectively. Myostatin protein was undetectable in sera of Belgian Blue cattle and myostatin knockout mice. Recovery in spiked sera approximated 100%. ActRIIB-Fc or anti-myostatin antibody MYO-029 had no effect on myostatin measurements when assayed at pH 2.5. Myostatin levels were higher in young than older men (mean+/-S.E.M. 8.0+/-0.3 ng/mL vs. 7.0+/-0.4 ng/mL, P=0.03). In men treated with graded doses of testosterone, myostatin levels were significantly higher on day 56 than baseline in both young and older men; changes in myostatin levels were significantly correlated with changes in total and free testosterone in young men. Myostatin levels were not significantly associated with lean body mass in either young or older men. CONCLUSION: Myostatin ELISA has the characteristics of a valid assay: nearly 100% recovery, excellent precision, accuracy, and sufficient sensitivity to enable measurement of myostatin concentrations in men and women.
    PMID: 19356623 [PubMed - in process]
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  6. #46
    freakinhuge is offline Senior Member
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    incredible read, thanks for the training info and sample workouts.

  7. #47
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    WOW! thank you! knowledge is power.

  8. #48
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    Hey man.
    I noticed you changed up the program.
    I used to do the 2/1 (deload, reload), and it was good.
    There is no way I can do 8 weeks of reload, before deloading...

    What do you suggest?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie Rowland View Post
    You can run test enanthate for 12 weeks or longer but at the 8 week point you would need to increase the dosages to continue making noticeable gains. It's not well understood as to why steroid cycles stop working well after 8 weeks but according to William Llewelln in his book ANABOLICS 9TH EDITION-" it's believed to be related to the new metabolic limits placed on muscle cells under the influece of a certain dosage of steroids , not insensitivity to the AAS. Classic downregulation does not occur with these drugs and even if it did, rotating steroids would not prevent it".

    In regards to time on= time off. Thats is fine but you will be in a constant state of gaining muscle then losing muscle. It's called YO-YOING! You cannot come off of all drugs for that length of time and expect to maintain your gains. I have learned that the body will hold onto all of it's size (minus water weight) for about 2 weeks.

    In regards to the 2 week deload you can do any PCT during the 2 weeks off or bridge with a base like testosterone and/or smaller amounts of all the slow acting drugs used in the reload. The goal is to hold onto all mass while reducing anabolic hormones in the body, then come back using more anabolics during reload to make continued progress. More training volume and protein would also be needed when returning to the 8 week reload.
    Hey Ronnie thanks. I'll be giving this a try in two weeks

  10. #50
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    Hey Guys, I'll try to answer all questions in this thread and get to my pm's on thursday.

    thank you,

    Ronnie

  11. #51
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    Reading this website a lot again in the the last couple days there seems to be a lot of conflicting advice and it is a little overwhelming figuring out what to do and who to listen to.

  12. #52
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    I've read through this thread a few times plus the other Slingshot threads and I think I get the principle without using steroid . But, how does this fit into only wanting to do one AAS cycle (no bridging) that typically lasts 12 weeks? Or can it not work like this?

    I'm just trying to figure out the best way to keep the gains after a cycle (new to this).

    Could you, say, do a test-only cycle of 1-12 weeks, and then start PCT, after 2 or 3 weeks while starting a new reload period to keep gains? I list it below, or is this a recipe for disaster?

    So:
    Week 1 - AAS, reload
    Week 2 - AAS, reload
    Week 3 - AAS, reload
    Week 4 - AAS, reload
    Week 5 - AAS, reload
    Week 6 - AAS, reload
    Week 7 - AAS, reload
    Week 8 - AAS, reload
    Week 9 - AAS, deload
    Week 10 - AAS, deload
    Week 11 - AAS, reload
    Week 12 - AAS, reload
    Week 13 - break, reload
    Week 14 - break, reload
    Week 15 - break, reload
    Week 16 - PCT, reload
    Week 17 - PCT, reload
    Week 18 - PCT, reload
    Week 19 - PCT, deload
    Week 20 - deload
    Week 21 - reload
    Last edited by musclebear; 09-30-2009 at 10:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 07sandiegomuscle View Post
    Reading this website a lot again in the the last couple days there seems to be a lot of conflicting advice and it is a little overwhelming figuring out what to do and who to listen to.
    ronnie...has a great rep in south carolina... as being a top-dog trainer for competitive and recreational bodybuilders alike...alot of knowledge on here and ron...is certainly one of them..

  14. #54
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    wow, lots of info, read all of it. great stuff, thanks a lot

  15. #55
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    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by VASCULAR VINCE View Post
    ronnie...has a great rep in south carolina... as being a top-dog trainer for competitive and recreational bodybuilders alike...alot of knowledge on here and ron...is certainly one of them..
    Thanks, I will pay attention to him

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobofet View Post
    At what level of experience would you suggest someone use this style of training and cycling? Would this be benificial for all? or would it more or less be more usefull for experienced pros?

    By the looks of it your basically always "ON" and bridging your cycles as opposed to cycling and then PCT. Is that correct?
    This approach works for all levels of experience and it's beneficial to all.

    You have the option of doing do either a pct during deloads or a bridge.

    Slingshot Training is set up to accomodate everyone!!!

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennylom View Post
    is this a product? If not, at least the terminology used is not just "productified", but also somewhat confusing. At least for a non native english speaker.

    I'd appreciate if the information was a bit more concise and to the point but also if it would consider that, most people do not spend 365 days a year (minus the "deloads") on aas. For example, if only one cycle is intended per year, how does the sts apply? Do you run it the exact same way or is it a constant "reload"? you would run it the same way minus the anabolics. Simply cut back training volume and protein intake during deloads!

    can you clarify your terminology:
    reload = during aas cycle? yes
    deload = off cycle or during pct? can be off cycle, pct or during a bridge (using much lower amounts of steroids)[
    b]blast[/b] = i'm guessing this infers the full program (reload/deload) but i'm not sure...yes! The blast consist of reloading and deloading
    answers above in caps.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridedivefx View Post
    great read!

    So how long can i stay on this blast and 2week off period? Can this continue entire year you can keep blasting until you get burned out. Once you burn out do a 1-2 week prime. The prime can consist of staying out of the gym altogether or coming in and training light with low volume, low intensity and high reps.

    Will this regimen permanently shut down natty test production? it's impossible to say because everyone is different but the answer
    would be no if you do a pct during 2 week deload instead of a bridge.


    can any combination of as be used during 8 weeks? absolutely!what other side effects might this regiment have....everyone's biggest concern should be heart health! Hemocrit levels can rise during aas use and cause a stroke-hence the reason some give blood every 8 weeks during deloads. High blood pressure is a concern as it can cause left ventricle hypertrophy. Using too much of any steroid, using too many orals and using to many anti-es are a concern as they can accelerate plaque build up in the arteries.

    i have just been drilled time on = time off for the longest time so its a lil hard to grasp this concept time on = time off is okay, it's just not going to provide the gains that many people are looking for. I'm not against time on = time off, i am just being honest.thnx
    answers above in caps.
    Bama Boy and Rokclimber like this.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanTheMan View Post
    Hey man.
    I noticed you changed up the program.
    I used to do the 2/1 (deload, reload), and it was good.
    There is no way I can do 8 weeks of reload, before deloading...

    What do you suggest?
    Yes you can Van! You simply need to reduce your work sets during the reload phase. For example, if you are now doing 12 work set for quads, reduce it to only 8 sets or so.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by 07sandiegomuscle View Post
    Reading this website a lot again in the the last couple days there seems to be a lot of conflicting advice and it is a little overwhelming figuring out what to do and who to listen to.
    It's all based upon your personal goals and how far you are willing to take things.

  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by musclebear View Post
    I've read through this thread a few times plus the other Slingshot threads and I think I get the principle without using steroid . But, how does this fit into only wanting to do one AAS cycle (no bridging) that typically lasts 12 weeks? Or can it not work like this?

    I'm just trying to figure out the best way to keep the gains after a cycle (new to this).

    Could you, say, do a test-only cycle of 1-12 weeks, and then start PCT, after 2 or 3 weeks while starting a new reload period to keep gains? I list it below, or is this a recipe for disaster?

    So:
    Week 1 - AAS, reload
    Week 2 - AAS, reload
    Week 3 - AAS, reload
    Week 4 - AAS, reload
    Week 5 - AAS, reload
    Week 6 - AAS, reload
    Week 7 - AAS, reload
    Week 8 - AAS, reload
    Week 9 - AAS, deload
    Week 10 - AAS, deload
    Week 11 - AAS, reload
    Week 12 - AAS, reload
    Week 13 - break, reload
    Week 14 - break, reload
    Week 15 - break, reload
    Week 16 - PCT, reload
    Week 17 - PCT, reload
    Week 18 - PCT, reload
    Week 19 - PCT, deload
    Week 20 - deload
    Week 21 - reload
    IMO this is not a good approach! If you are wanting to run a 12 week cycle it's best to break it up into 2, 6 week cycles as described below.



    Week 1 - AAS, reload
    Week 2 - AAS, reload
    Week 3 - AAS, reload
    Week 4 - AAS, reload
    Week 5 - AAS, reload
    Week 6 - AAS, reload (end of first 6 week cycle)
    Week 7 - AAS, DELOAD
    Week 8 - AAS, DELOAD
    Week 9 - AAS, reload
    Week 10 - AAS, reload
    Week 11 - AAS, reload
    Week 12 - AAS, reload
    Week 13 - break, reload
    Week 14 - break, reload (end of second 6 week cycle)
    Week 15 - PCT, DELOAD
    Week 16 - PCT, DELOAD
    Week 18 - back to reload
    william981125 likes this.

  22. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie Rowland View Post
    IMO this is not a good approach! If you are wanting to run a 12 week cycle it's best to break it up into 2, 6 week cycles as described below.



    Week 1 - AAS, reload
    Week 2 - AAS, reload
    Week 3 - AAS, reload
    Week 4 - AAS, reload
    Week 5 - AAS, reload
    Week 6 - AAS, reload (end of first 6 week cycle)
    Week 7 - AAS, DELOAD
    Week 8 - AAS, DELOAD
    Week 9 - AAS, reload
    Week 10 - AAS, reload
    Week 11 - AAS, reload
    Week 12 - AAS, reload
    Week 13 - break, reload
    Week 14 - break, reload (end of second 6 week cycle)
    Week 15 - PCT, DELOAD
    Week 16 - PCT, DELOAD
    Week 18 - back to reload
    Awesome, thank you very much for taking the time to answer my question!

  23. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie Rowland View Post
    Yes you can Van! You simply need to reduce your work sets during the reload phase. For example, if you are now doing 12 work set for quads, reduce it to only 8 sets or so.
    I am doing 9 sets for reloading now, for quads that is.
    What is the minimum amount for a major muscle group, you would suggest? Duringa reload.

  24. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by vantheman View Post
    i am doing 9 sets for reloading now, for quads that is.
    What is the minimum amount for a major muscle group, you would suggest? Duringa reload.
    6 sets.

  25. #65
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    Gotcha!

  26. #66
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    thanks for the info and the clarifications Ronnie!

  27. #67
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    I've been running prop and npp for about 12 weeks and have notice the gains have stopped. I was planning on running prop and tren for the next 4 weeks then post cycle for a few months. Do you think it would be a better idea to post cycle for 2 weeks and run a deload, then start prop and tren for 8 weeks while doing a reload? Then I would post cycle for 2 weeks (deload) and then run prop and npp for 8 weeks (reload), and so on?

  28. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21 View Post
    i've been running prop and npp for about 12 weeks and have notice the gains have stopped. I was planning on running prop and tren for the next 4 weeks then post cycle for a few months. Do you think it would be a better idea to post cycle for 2 weeks and run a deload, then start prop and tren for 8 weeks while doing a reload? Then i would post cycle for 2 weeks (deload) and then run prop and npp for 8 weeks (reload), and so on?
    yes!

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    Ronnie..which are best,,,, mass building steroids ???

  30. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie Rowland View Post
    answers above in caps.
    Thanks Ronnie

  31. #71
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    Thanks! Answers were spot on.

  32. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by VASCULAR VINCE View Post
    Ronnie..which are best,,,, mass building steroids???
    It would be the drugs your body can handle without experiencing bad side effects! It can be different for each individual.

    For building maximum muscle mass heavy androgens are best for people who can tolerate them. This would include your base drug (testosterone ) and it would be used in conjunction with other drugs like tren , deca , equipoise , d-ball and even anadrol for those who do not experience a decrease in appetite.

    NOTE: I've witnessed that getting huge requires having the genetics to take the drugs in high enough quantities to not experience bad side effects.

  33. #73
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    Ronnie Another Q.

    1. For the loading phase if i am planning to do 12 sets, is this inclusive of warmup sets or are warm upset outside the 12 loading sets

    2. Is each set done to failure? High rep range 12-15 or low rep range 3-8

    Thanks

  34. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridedivefx View Post
    Ronnie Another Q.

    1. For the loading phase if i am planning to do 12 sets, is this inclusive of warmup sets or are warm upset outside the 12 loading sets

    2. Is each set done to failure? High rep range 12-15 or low rep range 3-8

    Thanks
    1) During the 8 week reloading phase, if you are planning to do let's say 12 sets for your chest, then warm up sets would not be included in those 12 sets. I generally do 3 warm up sets before going into the work sets with chest.

    2) Each set is taken to good failure (to a point you cannot get another good rep). The ideal rep-range is 8-12 reps but it's good prcatice to hit as low as 4 reps on occasion with some compound exercises if it does not cause joint pain and going as high as 15 reps is also good.

  35. #75
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    Thanks for the time to put something like this together.

    I have a question regarding the PCT/Deload. If your using test e or Sustanon as your testosterone , they typically take 2-3 weeks to completely leave your system. IMO it is best to wait until the compound is out before starting PCT. I also saw my best gains on cycle in weeks 8-10. I would be afraid to deload right when I'm at my peak. I have not tried this slingshot method so I could be completely off based on my experience.

    I would think that a prolonged training cycle, say 8-12 months of this, would not allow your body to produce testosterone naturally.

    Would it be best to use different compounds such as test prop?
    Since your body is never producing test on it's own I would think that the possiblility of shutting down the production is very high, do you have a different opinion on this?

    This looks like a fantastic program and makes complete sense, I just worry about the prolonged use of AAS for someone that is not training for a competition.

    This method just completely differs from everything I have learned and been educated on. I am not trying to contradict you, I am just curious as to what are your thoughts are on this?

    Thanks in Advance-

  36. #76
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    Fantastic reading !!!

    Out of curiosity what dosage would you recomend in the deload phase ?

    Say you are running
    500mg test e ew
    400mg deca ew

    would you up the dosage on the aas on the next reload phase or would you up the dosage every other/every 4th reload phase etc ? or would you gauge this on when you feel you need to up the dosages because gains are no longer happening as much ?

    How much would you increase your intake of aas when required to ?

    Thanks for the great article very impressive.

  37. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaron1mix View Post
    thanks for the time to put something like this together.

    I have a question regarding the pct/deload. If your using test e or sustanon as your testosterone , they typically take 2-3 weeks to completely leave your system. Imo it is best to wait until the compound is out before starting pct. not neccesary i also saw my best gains on cycle in weeks 8-10. You saw best gains at week 8 because this is the point where full=adaptation takes place. I would be afraid to deload right when i'm at my peak. Take your gains and run so you will be able to can come back faster and make gains again! I have not tried this slingshot method so i could be completely off based on my experience.

    I would think that a prolonged training cycle, say 8-12 months of this, would not allow your body to produce testosterone naturally. When you feel the need to do a 4 week pct from time to time you simply do a 2 week prime following the 2 week deload. This will give you a break! ha

    would it be best to use different compounds such as test prop? Not neccesary and all those injections are more painful.
    Since your body is never producing test on it's own i would think that the possiblility of shutting down the production is very high, do you have a different opinion on this? If you fear getting shut down you could do a 4 week pct combined of a 2 week deload-2 week prime) on a more frequent basis or do an occasional 8 week reload training without any anabolics AFTER a 4 week PCT. slingshot training is set up for making maximum muscle gains but adjustments can be made if need be.

    this looks like a fantastic program and makes complete sense, i just worry about the prolonged use of aas for someone that is not training for a competition. In your case you should consider an occasional 8 week reload using zero steroids.

    This method just completely differs from everything i have learned and been educated on. I am not trying to contradict you, i am just curious as to what are your thoughts are on this?

    Thanks in advance-
    answers above in bold.

  38. #78
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    ^^^^ Thanks Bro. It's always good to get some new opinions. I think I will try it without AAS on my next break. Looking forward to the new program.

    Good Read by the way!

  39. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPO View Post
    Fantastic reading !!!

    Out of curiosity what dosage would you recomend in the deload phase ?

    Say you are running
    500mg test e ew
    400mg deca ew

    deload- 300 mgs of test ew

    would you up the dosage on the aas on the next reload phase or would you up the dosage every other/every 4th reload phase etc ? or would you gauge this on when you feel you need to up the dosages because gains are no longer happening as much ? USE THE LEAST AMOUNT OF ASS NEEDED TO MAKE NOTICEABLE GAINS IN LEAN MUSCLE TISSUE. ONCE THE GAINS STOP YOU'LL HAVE TO INCREASE THE DOSAGE REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT'S EVERY OTHER RELOAD OR EVERY RELOAD. IT'S DIFFERENT FOR DIFFERENT PEOPLE. THE MORE ADVANCED ONE BECOMES THE LESS OPTIONS THEY HAVE IN REGARDS TO INCREASING DOSAGES! PROS MOSTLY MAINTAIN WHAT THEY HAVE BUILT ONCE THEY HIT A CERTAIN LEVEL OF DEVELOPMENT. ONE CAN GET FAIRLY CLOSE TO THEIR GENETIC PEAK IN ABOUT 4 YEARS USING SLINGSHOT TRAINING WHEN THEY DO IT IN AN AGGRESIVE MANNER. GAINS IN MUSCLE MATURITY WILL CONTINUE.

    How much would you increase your intake of aas when required to ? YOUR NEXT STEP GOING BY YOUR CYCLE ABOVE WOULD BE 750 MGS OF TEST PER WEEK AND KEEP THE DECA AT 400 MGS.
    Thanks for the great article very impressive.
    ANSWERS Above in bold.

  40. #80
    arch is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Valencia, Ca
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    54
    great read. just wow a lot of great info

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