Ukrainian/Russian Jintropin

[marcus300]

What's that supposed to mean?

There's a reason why they don't reply to emails
there's a reason why they don't send out the jins
there's a reason why they taking money and not filling orders
and there is a reason GenSci wont reply what's happening with the Ukraine distributors

If you add it up its plain to see they are not to be trusted anymore and there's a reason behind, usually fakes gh or a big scam coming either way I know guys who have not had their gh they have ordered and they wont respond to any emails, they have scammed people so they cant be trusted. If members want to risk it then that's fine but IMHO I think there is some selective scamming going on and no doubt some fakes being pushed out. No way is there a shortage of Jins !!! there's a reason why all this bad feedback is happening


My advice is not to make any orders for jins at this moment in time, they are not to be trusted.

[EasyDoesIt]

What's that supposed to mean?

Well by the looks of this thread, doesn't seem like things are changing for the better. Looks like the risk factor is continuing to go up. That's just my opinion...

[testluva]

I just received one of two shipments today. Shipment was post marked and date stamped July 12th from Ukraine. I also received and email from the distributor yesterday to please wait a few more days. Everyone was starting to receive their orders in the past few days. Hurray got mine today. I hope the second box comes in next week.

I also received an email future shipments will be out of EU and not Ukraine. And apologized for the shipping delays.

[beerdogg]

Early or late July?
It seems an awfully long time in transit no matter how far you are from Europe. You know how they claim to transport it well refrigerated from the factory to the distributor in Ukr & Russia, is that not to protect the integrity of the hormone? If so what will a month and a half of being hauled arround in summer do to it?

Mine was July 12 just like testluva. I am worried about the potency from being unrefrigerated all this time. Another order just came in from a different source that had a ice pack with it. That's more like it.

[tawweiliu]

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[testluva]

I just did my tracking of my second Jins package. USPS tracking shows my second box being delivered on Monday. So looks like the two tracking numbers I received are legit. Only shows tracking from three days ago once it hit the east coast. Wow two months in transit is crazy.

[marcus300]

I just did my tracking of my second Jins package. USPS tracking shows my second box being delivered on Monday. So looks like the two tracking numbers I received are legit. Only shows tracking from three days ago once it hit the east coast. Wow two months in transit is crazy.

I can't see anything taking 2 months but lets say its been floating around for 2 months in this weather, what kind of quality product do you think you got

[austinite]

I can't see anything taking 2 months but lets say its been floating around for 2 months in this weather, what kind of quality product do you think you got

Fixed

[EasyDoesIt]

I can't see anything taking 2 months but lets say its been floating around for 2 months in this weather, what kind of quality product do you think you got

Also, didn't Ankie Bio use the hot weather as an excuse that the products were bad.

[EasyDoesIt]

You are right, EasyDoesIt

I just talked to my friend and he kind of laughed when he heard that people were saying that there was a shortage on GenSci.

His words were "Imposable"

So maybe what happen was a fall out with the Ukraine distributors and now the EU has to pick up the slack. This is probably why the delay. I bet with all the complaints they must of rush some GenSci HGH from China after seeing the negativity on the internet about GenSci. I don't think this was the fault of GenSci China but Ukraine distributors. It happens,

I know it's hard to trust anyone out of China especially people from the West. But I do believe if you fallow their web site rules and only go through authorized dealers, and not some guy that sold you ASS from a gym, Too easy to get fooled even if he is legit. I was going through a lot of the sites on the internet. and the first thing my friend mention was that their seem to be a lot of fake pictures. For example if it's not on the GenSci website in China? and you see a box from lets say Ukraine or EU distributors that is different. Then it's fake.

We saw GenSci pics that had 20 bottles to a box or still selling "Yellow tops" This is impossible. What ever you see on GenSci website is what they sell around the word from what I was told. So the bottom line is.......
Always fallow the GenSci website for reference and make sure that the the serial numbers and license distributors have the same thing. Don't let them tell you that GenSci make special orders for Ukraine, Russa, Hong kong, EU that are different from GenSci China's web site. This isn't true....


Personal I think you should always get real GenSci HGH or like in this case sent from another location if you're fallow GenSci China's authorized dealers. So even know they got them late at least they all got their GenSci HGH.

Better than fake HGH.

I do not put much faith in Gensci China either. They have been selling junk for a long time. They sell a bogus product to people who have no recourse from buying fakes from there website. You think the medical community in Asia worries about there product being faked or there orders shipped on time.? NO!!! Pharm grade HGH is not affordable to 99% but 99% wants it to, well you can't have it, yes i can i just bought for $$$$$$?? That's not real, yes it is. Where i am, most knowledge of HGH is 0-none. Those are the masses, Gensci knows you never run out of the masses. How many thousands more out there are buying from resellers who know nothing? A lot!! There are many new customers everyday. Mention the cost of pharm grade hgh to the novice and their eyes light up. It's the oldest trick in the book. Buy out the back door and you think you bought the real thing. Seems like more and more everyone has kits of hgh, but it's not hgh. The thought process here to a more educated community looks at HGH as gold and with there training a whole new level of physique. But the educated are a tiny portion of their business. The new business out there is the average person who hears you can get rid of there fat belly by taking this stuff and it's all the same cause i have a friend who sells it cheap. There are always new members here seeking validation of the junk they bought. I have seen many come on board since i sought to be educated about junk HGH i bought. Hope i do not sound to negative or discouraging, but the point is do not look to the BIG BOSS of it all to save the day. The problem starts at the TOP! Maybe i am wrong, but if everything was good, no one would be here trying to figure this mess out. Hopefully some receive quality product, but don't look for it to last.

[marcus300]

Also, didn't Ankie Bio use the hot weather as an excuse that the products were bad.

To some customers they did, but to me and a friend they tried to pay us off with free gh to keep our mouths shut on the forums, obviously I took the free gh and I can tell you it was suppose to be 4 ius vials and it must of been 10 ius in them, just go to show you what they are capable of doing. They sold fake gh to the underground market and no doubt something like this will be going on over in the Ukraine. Lets see the results and sides from this new batch whats come through fro some members but I know guys who have been scammed and not had their gh and they won't even reply to emails.

[tawweiliu]

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[thisAngelBites]

Gensci China has no control over Ukraine, Russa, Hong kong, EU distributors and what they do. If the distributors are not being genuine with their costumers then it's hard for Gensci China to regulate it.

I was corresponding with people at GenSci, and asking questions about distributors, when I suddenly got an email from a company saying that the GenSci distributor for that country passed my email address to them (so GenSci gave my email to a distributor, who sent it to this retailer). When I was having another look at the Gen Sci website, I noticed this particular retailer was on Gen Sci's list of people not-to-trust: selling fakes! So GenSci gave my email to a distributor, who gave it to someone Gen Sci says do not sell legitimate Jins! It boggles the mind!

[tawweiliu]

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[marcus300]

I was corresponding with people at GenSci, and asking questions about distributors, when I suddenly got an email from a company saying that the GenSci distributor for that country passed my email address to them (so GenSci gave my email to a distributor, who sent it to this retailer). When I was having another look at the Gen Sci website, I noticed this particular retailer was on Gen Sci's list of people not-to-trust: selling fakes! So GenSci gave my email to a distributor, who gave it to someone Gen Sci says do not sell legitimate Jins! It boggles the mind!

Very interesting and just shows you they are not to be trusted, really strange

[slimshady01]

Would you guys not be concerned that your hgh was sitting In some hot humid warehouse for 3 months in the dead of summer?

[thisAngelBites]

I think it shows the distributors can't be trusted. I think Gen Sci did not give my email to a known seller of fakes, but that the distributor did (either knowingly, or unknowingly, I might add, because it isn't clear). Maybe the retailer buys legit Jins from the distributor, but also sells fakes.

By the way, the email address I used is a secure one I have only used for this purpose, and which I have never gotten any spam of any kind on. It's pretty clear to me that someone gave the retailer my address, and since I was speaking to GenSci about another distributor, they basically thought they were doing as I asked (getting me in touch with another distributor/retailer). I doubt they expected that this distributor was going to send me to a retailer on their fakes list. I think it furthers the argument that they can't control their distributors.

[testluva]

For now if we want original Jins we only have a limited sources to buy from. We all know from past experience the Ukraine source is legit and not selling fakes. No one has documented this on the board. Only bad situation was delayed shipping. So far no one has come forward and said they where scammed by the Ukraine source. All of us that thought we did is receiving their shipment now. For me I'm willing to continue with the Ukraine source now shipping out of EU. I stand corrected. Beerdogg was short a few kits on his first orders. This was when no tracking was available and they where just shipping without tracking. But they offered to make good on his next order. So everyone can make their own decision on who to buy from.

[marcus300]

There are members who got scammed, had one the other day report it in the one to one section. We have also had shipments sent out short, I know of 2 people who had 200ius short form their order and they said they will send it when they next order. The delay was for a reason not sure what but to many things are not making sense. We have also had a member state his new jins are fakes..

Your decision guys to try and see if your get your order, real gh and your order not short but I wouldn't recommend anyone to make an order at this stage.

[EasyDoesIt]

I disagree on this point. I can't speak for Asia but I do know that the Chinese government regulates HGH in China. So all pharmaceuticals that sell HGH or at least Gensci HGH that can be tracked through Gensci China's web site is %100 real. Is it as good as USA pharmaceuticals HGH? Maybe not but it is real. There are a lot of knock off but that's not Gensci China's fault. When you are really the only real HGH company in China. Everyone's out to get you or copy you. Chinese are famous for that. It's no different over there.

Now that's not saying fake HGH doesn't gets sent to the USA or other countries. But were you are wrong in my opinion is whose sending the fake HGH. For example when Gensci China sends it's HGH over sees it never sends it to America.

So that mean,,,,,,,

A) You get it second hand through an another location " Gensci China has no control over Ukraine, Russa, Hong kong, EU distributors and what they do. If the distributors are not being genuine with their costumers then it's hard for Gensci China to regulate it. All they can do is change their distributors. Maybe that's what they did with Ukraine and EU until things die down. because of all the up roar. We really don't know the truth just speculate most of the time. Plus sometimes people in the USA might get their HGH Gensci through websites or third person parties and not distributors. So who knows what was done by the time it got to a gym in the USA.


B) So it could of changed hands 3 to 4 times, who knows what's really in those boxes.


C) Distributors sell on supply and demand they don't stock big quantities all year long, sometimes they run out. Now whose to say they don't switch the real boxes with fake bottles or mix them in with real ones. So you think you're getting genuine HGH. Remember lot's can happen by the time it gets to the USA. I really think you can't hold Gensci China for this problem. Maybe other smaller HGH companies in China but not Gensci.


D) Gensci China is really the only real supplier of genuine HGH, So it's not in their best interest to send out fake HGH. There in it for the long hull not to make a quick buck.

Now that's not saying it's not in other smaller companies best interest to do it. I'm sure there are many companies that are sending out fake HGH and thinking they can make a quick buck off of western people. But like I said before Gensci China "I would say it's all 100 genuine" coming out of the factory in Gensci China or at least very close to that.

Well my box came from Gensci China and it had the authentication codes and threads that checked out as good. It was not HGH! I do believe that Chinese Gov may regulate HGH in China, but do they care what goes outside of China? I can not speak for what is going on in Ukraine, just what i read on this forum.

[EasyDoesIt]

There are members who got scammed, had one the other day report it in the one to one section. We have also had shipments sent out short, I know of 2 people who had 200ius short form their order and they said they will send it when they next order. The delay was for a reason not sure what but to many things are not making sense. We have also had a member state his new jins are fakes..

Your decision guys to try and see if your get your order, real gh and your order not short but I wouldn't recommend anyone to make an order at this stage.

What a shady way to do business, force them to order more!!?

[tawweiliu]

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[marcus300]

Things change very fast when companies are dealing with the underground market, just look at Ankebio. When they don't deal direct with their own customers and have distributors they could and can sell fakes to the underground market, its not as if they have never done this before and just look at Ankebio who did deal direct they saw a market what could be manipulated because we are all underground.

Its easy to see something is wrong but if members still want to risk buying them that's your choice.

[Rick Kane]

Marcus300,
I understand what you wrote I just thought there was something else I wasn't aware of.

For those of you that have been in the game a long time does any of this surprise you? I hope not.
That site most of us used to order was registered in July of 2012. I told several people that at the most, they'd be good for was a year to 18 months.
The first year builds the rep, the rest is gravy. They'll eventually make good with most, not all, then do it all over again. David Garcia - unless someone put a bullet in his head he's probably still in the game and wouldn't surprise me if he is somehow involved.

[EasyDoesIt]

I have answered your question in another post EasyDoesIt. I think you are some what off on this.

Here's the other link Setting the record straight (Gensci HGH is getting a bad rap from western people)

Well this is your opinion, it conveniently covers bases to the anti counterfeiting codes matching. Problem is then that would mean you could remove the label seal with the threads in it and open the kit remove the bottles and place other bottles in them. Don't you think Gensci label once removed would look like it was removed and stuck back on?

[marcus300]

Well this is your opinion, it conveniently covers bases to the anti counterfeiting codes matching. Problem is then that would mean you could remove the label seal with the threads in it and open the kit remove the bottles and place other bottles in them. Don't you think Gensci label once removed would look like it was removed and stuck back on?

Also to add, these companies aren't 100% legit. If AnkiBio can sell fakes to the underground then Gensci can easily produce fakes with anti-counterfeiting codes what correspond with their web site. If anyone really thinks this system is 100% fail prove must be either lacking in brain cells or have some other agenda. We also had someone state that they had jins direct from Gensci and checked out with their anti counterfeiting codes but were fakes..............

something has changed recently and for me there is to much risk at this stage,

[EasyDoesIt]

Also to add, these companies aren't 100% legit. If AnkiBio can sell fakes to the underground then Gensci can easily produce fakes with anti-counterfeiting codes what correspond with their web site. If anyone really thinks this system is 100% fail prove must be either lacking in brain cells or have some other agenda. We also had someone state that they had jins direct from Gensci and checked out with their anti counterfeiting codes but were fakes..............

something has changed recently and for me there is to much risk at this stage,

Yes i don't understand the hard line defense of Gensci in this obvious counterfeiting situation. "Gensci anti counterfeiting label would show that it was removed and stuck back on". That problem does not jive with your theory "tawweiliu" Otherwise there "ANTI COUNTERFEITING LABEL WOULD BE VERY EASY TO COUNTERFEIT" It is tough to dispute what i stated and i am not regurgitating what others say. First hand knowledge and experience.
When i purchased my kit i was told exactly how to check authentication and i did. Thought i was really covered. Prior to this i had been taking other brands, not pharm as i did later but had experience with at least what i thought was hgh. After getting up around 6 iu's and bloating up like a pig, i knew something was wrong even with anti counterfeiting. Within less than 2 weeks of stopping i lost around 10lbs of water weight. Sorry, but i do not feel sorry for Gensci, i feel sorry for everyone who has been ripped off.

[marcus300]

Yes i don't understand the hard line defense of Gensci in this obvious counterfeiting situation. "Gensci anti counterfeiting label would show that it was removed and stuck back on". That problem does not jive with your theory "tawweiliu" Otherwise there "ANTI COUNTERFEITING LABEL WOULD BE VERY EASY TO COUNTERFEIT" It is tough to dispute what i stated and i am not regurgitating what others say. First hand knowledge and experience.
When i purchased my kit i was told exactly how to check authentication and i did. Thought i was really covered. Prior to this i had been taking other brands, not pharm as i did later but had experience with at least what i thought was hgh. After getting up around 6 iu's and bloating up like a pig, i knew something was wrong even with anti counterfeiting. Within less than 2 weeks of stopping i lost around 10lbs of water weight. Sorry, but i do not feel sorry for Gensci, i feel sorry for everyone who has been ripped off.

Exactly, great first hand experience what needs to be noted by members

[GearIdentity]

I received my pack. Also postmarked 7/12.

[tawweiliu]

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[marcus300]

I received my pack. Also postmarked 7/12.

Let us know how you get on with them and if they seem fake

[testluva]

Received my second box today. My order is complete. Security codes match up. When you enter the security code it displays the actual label. Even if you have a fiber strand over a number it actually matches the image on your box. Pretty cool technology.

[NWIron]

I disagree on this point. I can't speak for Asia but I do know that the Chinese government regulates HGH in China. So all pharmaceuticals that sell HGH or at least Gensci HGH that can be tracked through Gensci China's web site is %100 real. Is it as good as USA pharmaceuticals HGH? Maybe not but it is real. There are a lot of knock off but that's not Gensci China's fault. When you are really the only real HGH company in China. Everyone's out to get you or copy you. Chinese are famous for that. It's no different over there.

Now that's not saying fake HGH doesn't gets sent to the USA or other countries. But were you are wrong in my opinion is whose sending the fake HGH. For example when Gensci China sends it's HGH over sees it never sends it to America.

So that mean,,,,,,,

A) You get it second hand through an another location " Gensci China has no control over Ukraine, Russa, Hong kong, EU distributors and what they do. If the distributors are not being genuine with their costumers then it's hard for Gensci China to regulate it. All they can do is change their distributors. Maybe that's what they did with Ukraine and EU until things die down. because of all the up roar. We really don't know the truth just speculate most of the time. Plus sometimes people in the USA might get their HGH Gensci through websites or third person parties and not distributors. So who knows what was done by the time it got to a gym in the USA.


B) So it could of changed hands 3 to 4 times, who knows what's really in those boxes.


C) Distributors sell on supply and demand they don't stock big quantities all year long, sometimes they run out. Now whose to say they don't switch the real boxes with fake bottles or mix them in with real ones. So you think you're getting genuine HGH. Remember lot's can happen by the time it gets to the USA. I really think you can't hold Gensci China for this problem. Maybe other smaller HGH companies in China but not Gensci.


D) Gensci China is really the only real supplier of genuine HGH, So it's not in their best interest to send out fake HGH. There in it for the long hull not to make a quick buck.

Now that's not saying it's not in other smaller companies best interest to do it. I'm sure there are many companies that are sending out fake HGH and thinking they can make a quick buck off of western people. But like I said before Gensci China "I would say it's all 100 genuine" coming out of the factory in Gensci China or at least very close to that.

Hey bro, I hate to say this, but you have no idea of what goes on in China. Everything in China is a smokescreen. I have stayed in Shanghai for long periods of time and there are rarely any 100% legit companies. Even COACH faked their own products to sell in China, out of their own factory. There are Nike factories where workers stay late to pump out fakes to sell on the street and in the counterfeit malls. Lets' put it this way….last year, 97% of chinese companies had cooked books (aka cheated taxes). Nothing is really "regulated" in china except things that the government and the communist party isn't making money on, such as narcotics and violence. I guarantee you that fakes ARE coming out of Gensci China AND there are others making counterfeits. The moral of the story here is…..if you don't know your Chinese supplier personally, don't buy it.

[marcus300]

Hey bro, I hate to say this, but you have no idea of what goes on in China. Everything in China is a smokescreen. I have stayed in Shanghai for long periods of time and there are rarely any 100% legit companies. Even COACH faked their own products to sell in China, out of their own factory. There are Nike factories where workers stay late to pump out fakes to sell on the street and in the counterfeit malls. Lets' put it this way….last year, 97% of chinese companies had cooked books (aka cheated taxes). Nothing is really "regulated" in china except things that the government and the communist party isn't making money on, such as narcotics and violence. I guarantee you that fakes ARE coming out of Gensci China AND there are others making counterfeits. The moral of the story here is…..if you don't know your Chinese supplier personally, don't buy it.

I agree, and Gensci can produce fakes and sell them with anti-counterfeiting security codes what all match up and anyone who thinks different as no idea what they are capable of doing. When your dealing with an underground market you can sell them anything you want especially when it goes through an agent or even direct, just like AnkiBio did. Are the current jins coming through fakes or one of these water retaining anti-diuretic hormone's who know but I am sure in time we will find out but usually when someone buys something and they see some kind of results they usually start believing its real when its not just like all the generic boys who think their source is 100% lol.

For me I am out of buying them at this moment in time, to many people have been scammed, orders left short, sold fakes and many don't even get emails back the source, they are selectively scamming which worries me but I again we are having problems with Chinese hgh. Hey even if some of the current gh coming through now is real its been in transit for 3 months in this weather so its probably got about 1% potency and ruined anyway.

Anyone who has used pharm grade hgh for a long time at a decent dose couple with aas stacks will understand that it changes the whole shape and body composition, ive seen guys on gh for 2-3 years with the Chinese ones and they look exactly the same, real hgh doesn't work like that it transforms you into the next level so all the comments from guys who have used gh once or twice or even only just started to use gh think Gensci aren't capable of selling fakes have blinkers on. Just remember that when looking at your results with the current jins coming through, I am not saying they are junk or copies because ive stopped ordering from them and don't know but its very clear to me something is wrong and when something seems wrong it normally is..

[tawweiliu]

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[marcus300]

Sorry my friend I think you need to read my post very carefully before you sit there and tell what you know and don't know. I never once said companies I'm only talking about Gensci factory in China. I'm referring to all the comments on Gensci factory not business in China. Also I was posting about Gensci as a company not other companies so please save the speech as I know exactly what goes on in China. I've lived it Taiwan now for over 10 years and done business in Taiwan and China for over 21 years. I've seen it all and do have stories of my own but that being said this topic was about Gensci HGH coming out of China so I'm here to set the record straight.

Your not hear to set the record straight, you have no idea what your on about or what they are capable of doing. Infact you only just started to use hgh last month for the first time in your life so don't start sprouting BS to people who have been using hgh and dealing the Chinese hgh for years. All because you bought some doesn't make you the spokes person fro Gensci.
Your making yourself look rather stupid IMHO so please give your views and members can read and take what ever they want in but our members or most of them have been dealing with Chinese hgh longer than a month and I understand how passionate you are because I was the same when I first bought my first batch but please don't start sprouting BS saying your setting the record straight because you cant.

[tawweiliu]

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[tawweiliu]

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[tawweiliu]

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[marcus300]

Oh and just to ad one more thing marcus300.....

Just because you have 26,482 post and I only have 356 post doesn't make you an experience person when it comes to Gensci china's legit company. I might have low post but been a member here for a long time. Now my experience come from my best friend who has been dealing with that company for many years, He is a very big supplier with the elite boby builders community in Asia. I will take his experiences over yours as he has dealt directly with the manufacturer not distributors or third hand parties. If members from this forum who have never got any bad Gensci for Ukraine distributor then that means you don't really know what you are talking about and just go on "hear say" from peoples' past experience and post.

Yes of course Gensci are capable of selling fakes, they have done it before and they can do it again, are they doing it now who knows but yes they are capable of selling fakes to the underground market. I am sure they wont sell fakes/copies to legit companies they supply but to distributors who sell to the underground of course they are capable of doing so. This forum is full of stories what show what's happened over the years with the Chinese growth hormone business. The problem occurs when they sell to the underground market or through a second supplier. Can the Chinese be trusted? I think that's obvious to state no they cant be trusted just look how they do business especially to the black market.


Facts are you don't have any experience in using hgh, you just started last month, experience in using hgh is worth a great deal when your dealing with the Chinese. My problem is you stating your here to put the record straight, that's total BS you cant put the record straight they cant be trusted end of story. Ive done dealing with the Chinese hgh factory's for 25 yrs and at some stages I was buying 10,000ius every month and I had a very good relationship with them, even AnkiBio started selling fakes to the black market and they tried to silence me buy offering me free hgh. Ive also been offered at one stage fakes and boxes and labels of every hgh company going even with counterfeit security codes what match up, that was direct from certain companies and I was told every factory have an outlet to supply some chemicals what they are trying to pass of as real hgh. You may know some part but you don't know everything and to claim you do is really dumb IMHO.


Post count doesn't mean anything so why bring it up? ive never mentioned my post count. I mentioned your experience with taking hgh and you don't have any,fact.


There is enough evidence and experience from members who have ordered hgh from all companies showing they cant be trusted, I am not saying Gensci are doing this but of course they are capable of doing so especially to the underground market, its a closed market and no come back. The Ukraine and gensci are capable of selling fakes/copies and you stating they aren't is just tunnel vision and clearly shows your inexperience in this market.


You can write a long post and try and sound like you know some inside information but it doesn't mean its true, check out the Chinese concerns threads what goes on for years and you will see many things unfold, it may also open your eyes a bit further into this market we are on. Your welcome to your views and please carry on posting and writing your long posts if it makes you feel better but I am sure the members will make their own mind up and in all honesty there is a lot of information in the concerns thread what clearly shows the Chinese cant be trusted.


Something is wrong with the Ukraine side of things, I have no idea what and I hope the gh what's coming through is legit, but ive seen a lot of members either on threads, via pm to me and personal friends state they have been scammed, sold fakes, had orders filled but left short and been ignored once the monies have been transferred, for me at this stage I wont be buying anymore. When something seems wrong it normally is.


I am not going to go back and forth with you because I hate repeating myself over and over to someone who is blind to what's been happening and what can happen, so if you want to learn something read the concerns thread and take in what members are saying, that's how you learn.