** The ASK GB ANYTHING thread (diet/nutrition related) **

[BBrian]

3 Reasons Fish Oil is Bad For You

By Peter Bebber




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There's a lot of talk about Fish Oil these days and a few people have recently asked my thoughts on taking it. I've looked for solid, scientifically backed information from people not selling fish or fish oil to help me understand more about the benefits and/or drawbacks. What I've found is some great information that you won't hear from the Fish Oil salesmen and could take you a while to find sifting through the "fish oil miracle" stuff online.

1. Fish Oil is known to contain concentrations of chemicals like PCBs.
2. Oils are 100% fat and fat is unhealthy. Whether it's from a fish, a cow, or an olive - fat is fat is fat.
3. Although Fish Oil is popular for Omega-3 Fatty Acids, Omega-3's are available from sources other than fish.

You might be thinking right now that Olive Oil is healthy because it's from a plant, and you've heard how healthy Fish are because of the Omega-3's. This way of thinking is a combination of reductionist science and marketing. Let me explain: Modern science is obsessed with reducing things down to individual parts in an attempt to find the magic bullet or the cure all, but it doesn't exist. A grape was not created for the Resveratrol, a carrot doesn't simply provide beta carotene, and an orange doesn't exist solely for it's Vitamin C.

Let's look at oranges a little closer. An orange has less Vitamin C than bell Peppers or broccoli, yet we associate Vitamin C with oranges. This is because an industry saw how important Vitamin C is to our health, realized that their product, oranges, has Vitamin C, and marketed the heck out of that fact. It doesn't matter how much Vitamin C an Orange has, it just matters that an Orange has Vitamin C. If Broccoli growers had built a marketing campaign around Vitamin C before the Orange growers, we'd be seeing green when talking about Vitamin C instead of orange.

Fish and Fish Oil appear to be a similar case to the Orange, except an Orange is still good for you. An Orange provides more than just Vitamin C, it provides water, fiber, carbohydrates and antioxidants (which help fight free radicals - something oils promote). Fish, on the other hand, are made up of flesh and fat and contain no fiber, which makes it difficult for our bodies to digest. Fish are also known for their mercury content, a toxic metal that our bodies certainly can't handle but are exposed to when we consume fish and fish products.

Mercury is not the only toxin found in fish and fish oil. Polychlorinated biphenyls, or PCBs, are commonly found, in high levels, in fish Oil supplements. PCBs are considered carcinogens, or cancer causing, and are also known to cause headaches, cough, fatigue, skin sores and more. There is currently a lawsuit against fish oil companies because they are not disclosing the levels of PCBs and other chemicals present in their products. This is certainly something I'd like to be aware of before considering their products.

To address the fat issue, oils are fat. While there is fat even in the plants that we eat, when whole, they are in the natural form with the fiber, water, and other components our bodies use to digest them properly. They are also in an appropriate ratio of 5-10% of calories from fat. While nuts, seeds, and avocados are an exception and are actually high in fat, most plants are in the lower range. These whole plant foods provide an optimal source and amount of fats helping to keep our bodies slim and healthy.

While a healthy looking body is constantly sought after, a healthy body is most important. Oils work against us in both categories. The fat in oils certainly contribute to today's common weight problem while oils hurt the health of our bodies by encouraging the production of free radicals. Free radicals damage our cells and contribute to aging. In fact, a study at the Agricultural Research Human Nutrition Center on Aging at Tufts University "...have determined that fish oil reduces the production of T-cells and other lymphocytes by at least 63 percent." T-cells and lymphocytes are a part of our immune system and help us fight off infections. A 63 percent reduction in the production of T-cells is clearly not the desired effect of a pill taken to improve health. Here again we see a contradiction to benefits claimed by the fish and fish oil industries, industries that depend on people spending their money on the products their pushing.

Now that you've seen many of the effects of fish and fish oil you're probably wondering about those Omega-3's that are so beneficial and where to get them without fish. Fortunately, like Vitamin C, Omega-3's have more than one source. In fact, some of the same sources of Vitamin C, such as broccoli, spinach and other dark green leafy vegetables are also good sources of Omega-3's. Cauliflower, winter squash, papaya and those nuts, seeds and avocados we mentioned earlier are good sources as well. Because the nuts, seeds and avocados are high in fat content, it's recommended to eat small amounts. I've seen it suggested that a half an avocado every other day (on average) is a healthy amount to keep your overall fat intake down but still experience benefits.

Fish and fish oil are not requirements for us to live a healthy life. In fact, the opposite appears to be true once we get past the clever marketing. The reductionist science that companies have been using to fuel that marketing leaves the public confused and misled. Although it's easy for people to forget, humans come from nature, not a lab, and our bodies are designed to consume things from nature that make us healthy and leave us feeling good. Chemically burdened food that's difficult for our bodies to digest and pills designed in a lab are not healthy, do not promote health, and generally make us sick. I hope this article is helpful in answering your questions about the "benefits" of fish and fish oil.


Peter

Pardon me for jumping in here, but while reading your Lean Mass Gain Progress Log I caught the comment about fish oil, and ended up here. This article written by Peter Bebber contains a couple of serious flaws, as outlined in bold above. First of all, to state that fat is fat and all fat is bad shows a serious lack of nutritional and physiological knowledge from this guy. Essential Fatty Acids are not only healthy, but our bodies can not exist without them, starting at the brain (in fact our brain is 60 percent fat - and DHA (an Omega-3 essential fatty acid) is the most abundant fat in your brain), but I'm probably not saying anything that all of you don't already know in regards to the importance of poly and monounsaturated fats. Additionally, when he warns about Fish Oil containing mercury (it's actually methylmercury, to be precise) and other toxins, while this is true of specific fish, but not all fish, high quality fish oils actually philter out these toxins. Fallacy number two by Mr. Bebber. Also, one thing that he failed to mention, and is of particular relevance for people using AAS's, fish oil actually lowers blood pressure - the higher the dose of oil, the more it lowers BP. On the subject of how much fish oil is too much or too little, that is a fairly complicated answer. While there is no recommended daily allowance of EFA's such as those found in fish oil, here are three variables that are useful in making that calculation; first, the requirement for men is probably more than for that of women. Second, a preferable amount of EFA's seems to typically be calculated at around 5% of our daily caloric intake, but can fluctuate greatly depending on factors such as stress and disease. Third, there should be a ratio of Omega-3's to Omega-6's of around 1:5, respectively, but this too can fluctuate greatly depending on several individual factors and is based on a healthy diet. Those who eat American junk food on a regular basis would want to get closer to a 1:2 ratio.

[gbrice75]

Is it possible to gain weight on a caloric deficit by adding muscle? Or at best would you stay the same? What I mean is, if I'm consuming x fewer calories than my TDEE and say burning an additional y from cardio and I'm burning fat to provide energy and adding muscle during the same time could you gain weight? Would the answer be any different if you were on cycle?

I'm willing to bet there are a few freaks who have done it, but generally, no. If you are in a caloric deficit - and thats assuming a standard cutting diet where you are in a deficit more often than not - you simply arent getting the calories needed to grow. There are ways around it though... carb/calorie cycling is one. Done correctly, you are basically spending a few days in a deficit burning fat, and a few days in a surplus, hopefully adding or at least maintaining muscle mass. Same deal with intermittent fasting, albeit different timing.

AAS is a game changer. I cut from 195lbs @ roughly 16% to 177lbs @ roughly 10-11%, all natty. I then ran a cutting cycle to further reduce bodyfat - and at my peak got back up to 195lbs and down to around 9% (see my avy) - all while on the same diet I used to cut natty. That diet consisted of 3 days with a fairly large deficit, 3 days at a less severe deficit/close to maintenance, and 1 day a bit over maintenance, a refeed day basically.

[gbrice75]

Pardon me for jumping in here, but while reading your Lean Mass Gain Progress Log I caught the comment about fish oil, and ended up here. This article written by Peter Bebber contains a couple of serious flaws, as outlined in bold above. First of all, to state that fat is fat and all fat is bad shows a serious lack of nutritional and physiological knowledge from this guy. Essential Fatty Acids are not only healthy, but our bodies can not exist without them, starting at the brain (in fact our brain is 60 percent fat - and DHA (an Omega-3 essential fatty acid) is the most abundant fat in your brain), but I'm probably not saying anything that all of you don't already know in regards to the importance of poly and monounsaturated fats. Additionally, when he warns about Fish Oil containing mercury (it's actually methylmercury, to be precise) and other toxins, while this is true of specific fish, but not all fish, high quality fish oils actually philter out these toxins. Fallacy number two by Mr. Bebber. Also, one thing that he failed to mention, and is of particular relevance for people using AAS's, fish oil actually lowers blood pressure - the higher the dose of oil, the more it lowers BP. On the subject of how much fish oil is too much or too little, that is a fairly complicated answer. While there is no recommended daily allowance of EFA's such as those found in fish oil, here are three variables that are useful in making that calculation; first, the requirement for men is probably more than for that of women. Second, a preferable amount of EFA's seems to typically be calculated at around 5% of our daily caloric intake, but can fluctuate greatly depending on factors such as stress and disease. Third, there should be a ratio of Omega-3's to Omega-6's of around 1:5, respectively, but this too can fluctuate greatly depending on several individual factors and is based on a healthy diet. Those who eat American junk food on a regular basis would want to get closer to a 1:2 ratio.

Good info BBrian... I remember now that I was supposed to address this, but forgot. Pretty sure I made it to bold point 2, shook my head in disbelief at that terribly irresponsible and blanket statement, and moved on!

[tbody66]

I'm willing to bet there are a few freaks who have done it, but generally, no. If you are in a caloric deficit - and thats assuming a standard cutting diet where you are in a deficit more often than not - you simply arent getting the calories needed to grow. There are ways around it though... carb/calorie cycling is one. Done correctly, you are basically spending a few days in a deficit burning fat, and a few days in a surplus, hopefully adding or at least maintaining muscle mass. Same deal with intermittent fasting, albeit different timing.

AAS is a game changer. I cut from 195lbs @ roughly 16% to 177lbs @ roughly 10-11%, all natty. I then ran a cutting cycle to further reduce bodyfat - and at my peak got back up to 195lbs and down to around 9% (see my avy) - all while on the same diet I used to cut natty. That diet consisted of 3 days with a fairly large deficit, 3 days at a less severe deficit/close to maintenance, and 1 day a bit over maintenance, a refeed day basically.

Okay, so if I use the formula correctly for BMR and TDEE and am running a 500 calorie deficit from intake and another 500 from activity(cardio/weight training) but am not loosing weight but am loosing bf does that mean that for some reason my personal body isn't fitting into the calculators calculations? For example, due to my age or other personal health issues is it possible that my body isn't utilizing the macros the way it's supposed to? And if that is the case and I get on cycle then does that make my body start using them the way it is supposed to?

[gbrice75]

^^ you're losing me. If you're not losing weight but are losing bodyfat... what's the problem? Sounds like quite the ideal scenario to me. If that's truly what's happening, I'd venture to guess your body is utilizing nutrients very efficiently, and adding gear to the mix should only increase efficiency.

[tbody66]

I know it's a good situation, but I'm just thinking that if you are truly at a 1000 calorie a day deficit you should be dropping 2lbs a week. If you aren't, obviously somethings off so if you go into more of a deficit would you lose even more fat or is there a danger of causing other issues. I guess a guy should just leave well enough alone.

[gbrice75]

I know it's a good situation, but I'm just thinking that if you are truly at a 1000 calorie a day deficit you should be dropping 2lbs a week. If you aren't, obviously somethings off so if you go into more of a deficit would you lose even more fat or is there a danger of causing other issues. I guess a guy should just leave well enough alone.

There are too many other factors at play for the math to be that simple, i.e. 7000 calories/week deficit = 2lbs lost. I wish it were that simple... if it were, we'd all have the body of our dreams without much effort, at least from the mental aspect.

To be honest, it's hard for me to believe what you're saying is actually happening. A 1000 calorie/day deficit is pretty severe, and I'd expect to see the scale move at those numbers. Maybe your figures are off; it's no secret that I'm not a fan of the formulas. Chances are you're eating more than you think you need to, meaning your deficit isn't as large as you think. With that said, if you are losing bodyfat, then I'd leave well enough alone.

[--->>405<<---]

to add a personal point to this GB and TBody(if u dont mind)...what do u think about my situation as in:

starting weight:213lb 21.87%bf
current weight:190lb 10.22%bf

equals:23lb/10.43kg drop in fat
4.14lb/1.88kg increase in LBM

all done over 16weeks 2days.. id also like to say i am aware of the potential for some inaccuracy in the bf caliper test.. but i have had the same person doing it every week(my wife).. and we have the harpenden calipers so theyre very good.. my tdee at the start was 3101 and is currently 3164... been eating 2200 cals the whole time...

[Back In Black]

to add a personal point to this GB and TBody(if u dont mind)...what do u think about my situation as in:

starting weight:213lb 21.87%bf
current weight:190lb 10.22%bf

equals:23lb/10.43kg drop in fat
4.14lb/1.88kg increase in LBM

all done over 16weeks 2days.. id also like to say i am aware of the potential for some inaccuracy in the bf caliper test.. but i have had the same person doing it every week(my wife).. and we have the harpenden calipers so theyre very good.. my tdee at the start was 3101 and is currently 3164... been eating 2200 cals the whole time...

I'll weigh in a bit here - gaining LBM and losing bf is possible in your case owing to a complete clean diet overhaul, putting you on hypertrophy workouts and you have started TRT. I'm also not a fan of TDEE calculators, it's why I suggested 2100ish cals for a steady weight loss and not too disimilar a figure for Tbody to follow. Also you have followed diet and routine 99% of the time for the last 4 months and that counts. You were, essentially, almost like a new trainee.

Anyhow, not sure if that even needed saying and, as this isn't my thread, I'm out!

[--->>405<<---]

makes sense

[gbrice75]

Not at all Stem, feel free! I agree btw - for a newb, or somebody who has been out of the game for an extended length of time, it's quite possible, in fact probable that he'll lose fat and add LBM, at least for short period. When I was a disgusting 255lbs and mid-30s bodyfat, the same happened to me when I finally started training.

[tbody66]

There are too many other factors at play for the math to be that simple, i.e. 7000 calories/week deficit = 2lbs lost. I wish it were that simple... if it were, we'd all have the body of our dreams without much effort, at least from the mental aspect.

To be honest, it's hard for me to believe what you're saying is actually happening. A 1000 calorie/day deficit is pretty severe, and I'd expect to see the scale move at those numbers. Maybe your figures are off; it's no secret that I'm not a fan of the formulas. Chances are you're eating more than you think you need to, meaning your deficit isn't as large as you think. With that said, if you are losing bodyfat, then I'd leave well enough alone.

Dude, that's what I was saying. I totally agree, I'm just trying to figure out how/where/why so I can fix it. Thanks for trying to get through my thick skull, I do know I'm a hard one to explain things too.

[--->>405<<---]

Okay, so if I use the formula correctly for BMR and TDEE and am running a 500 calorie deficit from intake and another 500 from activity(cardio/weight training) but am not loosing weight but am loosing bf does that mean that for some reason my personal body isn't fitting into the calculators calculations? For example, due to my age or other personal health issues is it possible that my body isn't utilizing the macros the way it's supposed to? And if that is the case and I get on cycle then does that make my body start using them the way it is supposed to?

Just trying to be helpful If ur running 500below tdee on ur food and then counting calories burned during workout towards ur deficit, aRent those calories already factored into ur tdee? So in essence ur really only running a 500calorie deficit not 1000?? And the tdee calculator tends to be a high estimate??

I run 900below tdee and just do my workouts and dont use the calories expended there in any of my math...

(hope its ok for me to put this in GB)

[gbrice75]

^^ this. TDEE assumes all activity factored in, including workout and cardio.

[JimmySidewalk]

What would you prefer as a carb source, oats or simple bisquits with no sugar ?
Bisquits do have about 10g carbs more per 100g of product when compared with oats. Thus bisquits are around 400 something kcalories and oats at about 350. Could you also explain your choice ?

[gbrice75]

I'm always going to go with the more natural source/least processed source, so for me it's oats.

If you're trying to gain weight, it's not as important IMO - I eat white rice, white potatoes, etc. But I tighten things up when cutting...opting for choices lower on the GI/GL chart.

Mainly though, it comes down to how cleanly you want to eat. It's more important to some than others. I used to be more concerned with eating clean, I'm not as bad with it now.

[DESJK1]

Hello gd.. I am a fighter and train 4 times per week in boxing and only 2 with weights.. Now i want to start training 4 times per week in boxing and 4 times per week lifting weights so i decided to split the routines in weight training in the morning in fasted state and boxing in the evening.. Here is how i think my morning routine will be..

7.30 am
10gr BCAA's
45 min weight training
10gr BCAA's
45 min cardio
PWO meal ) 48 gr Whey Protein, 1 banana

9.30 Breakfast
24 gr Whey Protein
70 gr Oats
4 egg whites

The rest of the day i will stick with my meals as planned.. I do follow your cutting diet of this forum and in this thread you gave some advice for it..

I know you might say that lifting on empty stomach might be catabolic but here are two things..
My main goal is to shed as much fat as possible and i don't care to gain much muscle because that won't help with boxing.
So can you please give me your thoughts on that?

Thank you very much!

[gbrice75]

The rest of the day i will stick with my meals as planned.. I do follow your cutting diet of this forum and in this thread you gave some advice for it..

Which look like what?

I know you might say that lifting on empty stomach might be catabolic but here are two things..
My main goal is to shed as much fat as possible and i don't care to gain much muscle because that won't help with boxing.

But do you care about maintaining the muscle you do have? I'm sure you're not looking to LOSE muscle, am I correct? I know you need to be fast, but fast and strong can be lethal!!

What is the point of training fasted? Why are you doing it? Is it specifically to lose body fat? Weight training isn't a very efficient fat burner, at all - especially depending on the way one trains. You'd be better off doing just cardio in the am fasted, and then training with better intensity later in the day, if at all possible.

Awaiting your answers...

[joebailey1271]

Fish are also known for their mercury content, a toxic metal that our bodies certainly can't handle but are exposed to when we consume fish and fish products.

The fish oil i buy says purified to remove the mercury, so I guess its safe.

[DESJK1]

Which look like what?

Meal 1:
24gr whey 24/3/1/120
3 eggwhites 12/0/0/51
80gr oats 9/48/6/285

Meal 2:
150gr chicken breast 42/0/5/225
100gr of spinach 4/5/0/47

Meal 3:
150gr chicken breast 42/0/5/225
200gr sweet potatoe 4/46/0/200
100gr of spinach 4/5/0/47

Workout

PWO Meal:
48gr whey protein 48/6/2/120
1 banana 1/27/0/105

Meal 5:
150gr chicken breast 42/0/5/225
100gr of spinach 4/5/0/47

Meal 6:
200gr cottage cheese 24/5/2/143
1 tbs peanut butter 3/1/9/188

Total: P:263/C:151/F:35/ Cal: 2028

My TDEE is 2750..

But do you care about maintaining the muscle you do have? I'm sure you're not looking to LOSE muscle, am I correct? I know you need to be fast, but fast and strong can be lethal!!

Yes that's right, that's why i consider taking bcaa's before and after training.. Won't this help maintaining muscle?

What is the point of training fasted? Why are you doing it? Is it specifically to lose body fat? Weight training isn't a very efficient fat burner, at all - especially depending on the way one trains. You'd be better off doing just cardio in the am fasted, and then training with better intensity later in the day, if at all possible.

I thought that this would help lose more fat.. Plus it's impossible for me to train with weight and after a couple of hours jump rope, shadow fight, sparring or hit the heavy bag.. Anyway now that you have more details can you please critique my diet and give an idea how should i plan my day..?

Thank you gb for all your help..

Awaiting your answers...

[Twin]

Whats your opinion on Natural 100% Oats & Whey

Ingredients
Whey Protein Isolate, Whey Protein Concentrate, Honey Powder, Evaporated Cane Juice Powder, Whole Oat Flour, Oat Fiber, Natural Cocoa Powder, Natural Flavor, Cellulose Gum, Lecithin, Salt, Guar Gum.

Calories 200
Calories From Fat 15
Total Fat 1.5g 2%
Saturated Fat 1g 5%
Trans Fat 0g
Cholesterol 40mg 13%
Sodium 190mg 8%
Total Carbohydrate 23g 8%
Dietary Fiber 4g 16%
Sugars 9g
Protein 24g


Sure it would be cheaper to blend oats with protein.. but lets say money is not a problem, what do you think of this product. i was thinking of having 2 scoops of this stuff in the morning with water as a quick way to get out of the house and then have a real meal 2 hours later on my break..

Or i was thinking of having 2 scoops of this 2 oranges an hour and half before working .
anything wrong with this supplement ? how do the ingredients look? any bs stuff?

[BGC123]

Hey gbrice,
Awesome thread! Information overload

I just started a new thread and need some help, and I would really appreciate it if you could have a look if you get the time.

The link is posted below for your convenience.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...17#post5883117

Thanks.

[gbrice75]

Whats your opinion on Natural 100% Oats & Whey

Ingredients
Whey Protein Isolate, Whey Protein Concentrate, Honey Powder, Evaporated Cane Juice Powder, Whole Oat Flour, Oat Fiber, Natural Cocoa Powder, Natural Flavor, Cellulose Gum, Lecithin, Salt, Guar Gum.

Calories 200
Calories From Fat 15
Total Fat 1.5g 2%
Saturated Fat 1g 5%
Trans Fat 0g
Cholesterol 40mg 13%
Sodium 190mg 8%
Total Carbohydrate 23g 8%
Dietary Fiber 4g 16%
Sugars 9g
Protein 24g


Sure it would be cheaper to blend oats with protein.. but lets say money is not a problem, what do you think of this product. i was thinking of having 2 scoops of this stuff in the morning with water as a quick way to get out of the house and then have a real meal 2 hours later on my break..

Or i was thinking of having 2 scoops of this 2 oranges an hour and half before working .
anything wrong with this supplement ? how do the ingredients look? any bs stuff?

I like ON products, and their natural line is decent, but too much sugar for me if I were cutting. I'd opt for the less natural stuff that has an artificial sweetener. On a diet geared towards gaining, no problem with this product at all.

Hey gbrice,
Awesome thread! Information overload

I just started a new thread and need some help, and I would really appreciate it if you could have a look if you get the time.

The link is posted below for your convenience.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...17#post5883117

Thanks.

Thanks buddy, will have a look asap!

[Twin]

alright. thx bro. i guess ill give it a shot and see i do with it.

[gbrice75]

^^ let me know how it is... been meaning to try it myself, never have.

[southernboy918]

I need some advice as well, I just got ONE GOLIATH its a whey and creatine and so forth all mixed in. How many shakes a day should you take while try to gain mass?

[gbrice75]

I need some advice as well, I just got ONE GOLIATH its a whey and creatine and so forth all mixed in. How many shakes a day should you take while try to gain mass?

There's no right or wrong answer to this question. You need to figure out your maintenance calories and then come up with a decent diet plan. Start a thread, post up your proposed diet, and we'll help you sort it out. Fit shakes into the day if you want... or don't, it really doesn't matter much IMO. Most important is that you are eating more calories than you burn in a day (not MUCh more, or you risk adding body fat), and you are stimulating muscle growth with a good training regimen.

You should start at the beginning of this thread; I think you'll learn a lot here.

[southernboy918]

kk ill try to make another thread, i tried yesterday and it said it had to be approved and nothing ever happened.

[gbrice75]

Let me know how it goes. If you still can't post, l'll get it taken care of for you.

[southernboy918]

Well I've given it a few days and they still have not shown up so I am unsure as to what s going on.

[gbrice75]

I'll let admin know for you.

[supersize me]

Gbrice,

Exactly how long after your workout do you eat your PWO meal? You may have answered this before but i didn't see it. Thanks in advance!

[gbrice75]

Well I've given it a few days and they still have not shown up so I am unsure as to what s going on.

You should be all set now bro, the posts have been approved.

Gbrice,

Exactly how long after your workout do you eat your PWO meal? You may have answered this before but i didn't see it. Thanks in advance!

Currently I'm not doing any PWO cardio, so I'd say about 15-20 mins PWO. When I do PWO cardio, you can add another 45 mins or so to that. And finally, when I was runnin my IF diet, I trained fasted and still didn't have my PWO meal until several hours later. The whole 'anabolic window' has pretty much been debunked at this point. Don't kill yourself trying to get your PWO meal in immediately. What's important is that you DO eat, and you eat quality foods.

[jpowell]

Gbrice, how goes it? i was wondering you input on a keto diet? of course im gonna do some searching on the threads, but just wondering thumbs up or thumbs down?

[jpowell]

Not at all Stem, feel free! I agree btw - for a newb, or somebody who has been out of the game for an extended length of time, it's quite possible, in fact probable that he'll lose fat and add LBM, at least for short period. When I was a disgusting 255lbs and mid-30s bodyfat, the same happened to me when I finally started training.

holy crap-- i didnt no u did a trans?! great work bro keep it up!

[gbrice75]

Gbrice, how goes it? i was wondering you input on a keto diet? of course im gonna do some searching on the threads, but just wondering thumbs up or thumbs down?

Personally, i'm not a fan. I've run 2 keto diets and both times, I was cranky as hell, lost a lot of LBM (and not much fat believe it or not), and my strength plummeted. I never quite made it out of that 'transitional' fog.

Having said that, I know people that have had excellent results with keto. It's just not for everyone, and you'll need to give it a go before you decide whether it's for you or not. If you decide to go in that direction, I'd recommend reading up on Dave Palumbo's approach - best suited for BBing imo.

Personally, i'd stick with a carb cycling approach - much more efficient and best of both worlds (fat loss/muscle gain or retention) IMO.

holy crap-- i didnt no u did a trans?! great work bro keep it up!

Yessir!!! Although it all took place before I joined this board. If I had this board at my disposal, I probably would have done things right and would be in a much better place today. I basically cut calories very low, ate 3 meals/day (in a 17 hour day, so do the math - that's nearly 6 hours between meals while eating very little... not a great idea), and worked my ass off in the gym. I lost a lot of weight (177lbs was my lowest) but sacrificed a lot of LBM in the process (unwittingly). If I could do it again, i'd take a more slow/steady approach (and healthier) and retain my LBM.

[southernboy918]

KK got it posted it seems, its "want to get back there" i can eat whatever i want and not gain weight so i have started the protein shakes 3 times a day and 6 meals with various combinations. i have gone through a lot of diets on here but from what i have seen there are a few staples such as oats and salads. i like oats but i am allergic to lettuce so i cannot do salads however i will replace that with fruit and see how that works. my main thing now is to get a base and build on it from there. i will post it on the thread so when you get time drop by and give me your input please.

[gonnagethuge]

Hey gb, how you doing? Nice thread!

anyway, my question - On a lean bulk, how many weeks do you give it before re-assessing the possibility of increased calories? What i'm trying to say really is how many weeks do you let pass before deciding that no measurable gains are being made on the current diet and it is time to reassess.

[jpowell]

ok, i checked out palumbos diet for keto. ive noticed there seems to b a big difference, as his is targeted for bodybuilders in the contest prep phase. and ckd--is targeted to lose body fat. both essesntially have the same goal im assuming. but on my calc, why wod there be such a big difference between amounts of pro/fat per meal between the two?

[gbrice75]

Hey gb, how you doing? Nice thread!

anyway, my question - On a lean bulk, how many weeks do you give it before re-assessing the possibility of increased calories? What i'm trying to say really is how many weeks do you let pass before deciding that no measurable gains are being made on the current diet and it is time to reassess.

Good question!! Obviously the answer will vary from person to person since we make gains at different rates, plateau, etc. I personally will go with roughly 4 weeks before I make any big changes. I used to jump the gun and decide something 'wasn't working' after a week or two, but in reality I wasn't giving whatever I was doing a fair chance to make an impact, and ultimately sabotaging my own efforts.

Remember that our bodies take time to adjust, nothing is immediate. I've always felt like whatever I did a month ago will impact me physically today. e.g. you fall off your diet and start eating like crap. This goes on for several weeks, however you weigh yourself and look in the mirror obsessively but it doesn't seem to be impacting you. Great!!!! Then you decide after a month to start getting serious about your diet again. You eat clean, watch your calories, etc but WTF!!!! Suddenly you've put on 5lbs and your abs look blurry. You are seeing the residuals from tour previous behavior. Results aren't immediate, good or bad, and that can sometimes fvck our heads up. But I'm digressing, bigtime, so I'll shut up now!!!

ok, i checked out palumbos diet for keto. ive noticed there seems to b a big difference, as his is targeted for bodybuilders in the contest prep phase. and ckd--is targeted to lose body fat. both essesntially have the same goal im assuming. but on my calc, why wod there be such a big difference between amounts of pro/fat per meal between the two?

Don't be overly concerned with the idea that Palumbo's approach is geared towards competitive bodybuilder's. Can you give me a couple of examples of what's bothering you re: the meals? I'll try to work with those examples so others can see what we're getting on about.