Breaking News Deadly School Shooting In Newtown Ct.

[dan991]

[lovbyts]

not to disrespect you, and granted this pic isnt sensitive, but to me the God argument is as good as we should give the kids umbrella's. they could open and hide behind the umbrella for safety. I dont want to turn this into a god or religion thread. But for some of us that solution is a joke

None taken. That's the nice thing about America vs other countries, we are allowed to have our opinions and speak them freely; more or less and for the time being.

I'm not saying it would have stopped anything but it's true and hypocritical how so many people who don't believe in God still blame God when things dont go as they think they should although normally they want nothing to do with God or religion so I think the statement is valid in that regard.

[Rwy]

interesting.... i just read about it. The kid delivered him a pizza the week before and gave him a discount which is probably why that guy didnt blow off his head.

While I get what you are saying this could have gone another way too. Its crazy because everyones feelings on gun control comes down so much to where you live.

[lovbyts]

interesting.... i just read about it. The kid delivered him a pizza the week before and gave him a discount which is probably why that guy didnt blow off his head.

While I get what you are saying this could have gone another way too. Its crazy because everyones feelings on gun control comes down so much to where you live.

Did you hear about the shooter at the mall in Oregon last week? It's funny how the news is not reporting why he shot himself after only killing 2 people. It turns out someone was breaking the law and had their concealed weapon with them and after hearing shots ran towards the shooter. The shooter's gun had jammed and as he was un jamming it he saw the citizen running towards him with his gun. The citizen did not fire due to people in the background but the shooter after seeing him decided it was time to take his own life.

Funny how things like that get left out of many stories.

I still like this video.
http://www.break.com/index/71-year-o...obbers-2349328

[Rwy]

I totally get this point that you guys are making. My thing is what happens when there comes a time that a shooter runs out of ammo. What happens when a civilian cannot pull the trigger to kill the shooter and takes that persons weapons and kills more. What happens when a civilian with an itchy trigger finger does fire on the same scenario you just told me about and kills innocent bystanders. I am just trying to see both points of view.

I was a little emotional the other day. I have family close to that school. 3 girls age 4-11 who I absolutely adore and newton really hit home for me.

[lovbyts]

Yup it's all possible but that's also why not everyone should have a concealed weapons permit and should be trained in using his weapon.

I can understand all the emotions. This is not the first time I have had to hear about stuff like this and I have a 19 and 7yr old and maybe another one soon??? I had a 10yr old nephew who was shot and killed by his father several years ago and have had one wife who accidentally shot herself during our divorce and one who purposely shot herself 2 years after our divorce but that's still not the same as loosing a child.

There is a lot of blame to go around in this case I believe including the fact how hard it is for parents to get help for kids with mental disorders. My sister had to force the state to take her 12 yr old who is autistic after he killed a cat and tried to drown his little brother more than once. The stage/government does not make it easy to find help until after they have committed a crime then it's in/through jail.

[Rwy]

Wow thats a rough story. People just need to start speaking up. My one brother suffers from depression (but wont admit or get help) and if he had a gun I would def tell police that he is the last person who should have a gun. Has he ever hurt anyone no, but are there times were everyone in the family have no idea whats going through his head....all the time

You know there are tons of people out there who should not own a gun. Certain people are liabilities and they should not be able to carry a gun or get one

[Capebuffalo]

Deadliest school massacre was in the 1920's I believe. Almost 100 dead. The guy used dynamite not a gun FYI

[gixxerboy1]

Deadliest school massacre was in the 1920's I believe. Almost 100 dead. The guy used dynamite not a gun FYI

not sure if you mean in the US. But the one in Russia with the Chechen's was alot worse

[Capebuffalo]

not sure if you mean in the US. But the one in Russia with the Chechen's was alot worse

Sorry. Yes US up north.

[Flagg]

If gun control will not solve anything, as many have pointed out, then the logical next step would be what to do when this occurs again.

Aren't there some 100,000 schools in America? What I propose would be something like having metal detectors at the school entrance, and a lock down procedure. Bullet proof glass and steel doors. If some guy bursts into a classroom, have a bullet proof panels cut off the back of the class from the class exit. Security auto locking devices preventing this person from going elsewhere. Security patrols. All teachers keep a taser in the class room.

Seriously, increase the tuition fee's of each pupil by a 100 dollars to pay for this. You really can't put a price on human life.

They have all this kind of stuff in Banks and Prisons. It seems unfathomable that it would be needed at schools and universities, but that is the environment you guys want to live in. There's a reason people can't waltz in and do those kind of things in banks or prisons..

[Rwy]

No one should be able to get their hands on an assualt rifle.

[Flagg]

Another thing, there are four main reasons that a lot of you guys are pro gun and it boils down to these:

a) Hunting
b) Sports and fun
c) Home defence
d) Insurance against a tyranical government

Hunting is a strange one cause you could simply use a bow, but then a gun is easier. I could personally see the allure of going out on a range and firing rounds at paper targets, cans, vegetables etc. Home defence is a double edged sword because there are cases when home invasion was foiled by the owner having a gun on the premises. The last one is ridiculous unless some of you survivalist nuts think that your shed full of hand guns is any match against U.S. Drones, tanks and soldiers who are far superior in the art of war than you.

In my opinion, for the 2nd Amendment to have it's place in a Modern America, especially if it's most important function is to prevent a tyranical government from taking control of the population, wouldn't the U.S. have to be in a state similar to Egypt or Syria? Seriously, if the U.S. government wanted to take the country by sheer force, who will stop them? They have the mightiest military on the planet. Your assault weapon is NO MATCH for Drones.

So, if the USA has to something close to Syria for the 2nd Amendment to kick in, then isn't the USA already dead at that point?

The 2nd Amendment needs serious 'amending'. It's impractical now. It should be amended for an educated citizen to have a right and requirement, not well armed citizenship.

If one messed up kid can do that much damage in one school, the United States government could crush ANY RESISTANCE by 'the people'.

[gixxerboy1]

^^^^very good post.

and since you brought up other countries.
How come we "the US" feel we have the right to tell other countries what weapons they can have. And alot of the US population is always lets bomb them (iran, iraq, N. Korea) We cant and wont put limits on our weapons but will goto war to prevent someone else from getting something.

[Flagg]

^^^^very good post.

and since you brought up other countries.
How come we "the US" feel we have the right to tell other countries what weapons they can have. And alot of the US population is always lets bomb them (iran, iraq, N. Korea) We cant and wont put limits on our weapons but will goto war to prevent someone else from getting something.

At this point you might as well change the 2nd Amendment to "every citizen has the right to one Reaper Drone, one battle tank and one viral bomb", because that's the only way the common man would be on a level playing field with a modern american tyrannical regime.

[dan991]

No one should be able to get their hands on an assualt rifle.

Why not? You think it matters if its a .40 cal Glock or a SEMI-AUTOMATIC AR-15? Same thing.... and in all reality the weapon of choice would be the Glock as its easier to conceal walking into the building.

Here's reality- Timothy McVeigh didn't use a gun and that dude killed MORE kids and hundreds of people. Last I checked- its still easy to rent a UHaul, its still easy to buy fertilizer, and its still easy to buy Diesel fuel.

You CANNOT stop a phsyco by implementing laws.... period. Ban what you want- anyone that wants to do a lot of damage will find a way and in reality doesn't even need to look at a gun to do it.

[likelifting]

I expect our Gov't (Dems and Repubs) will fight about a legislation that will do nothing, but end up being passed so both Dems and Repubs can feel good about themselves up in DC.

[dan991]

I expect our Gov't (Dems and Repubs) will fight about a legislation that will do nothing, but end up being passed so both Dems and Repubs can feel good about themselves up in DC.

Probably... but it should actually be voted on. First- they need ALL new gun laws. The existing gun laws don't even make sense half the time. Gun reform is not a new topic; its just never been fully addressed. Even the requirements to own a gun need to be revisited.

[AXx]

Another thing, there are four main reasons that a lot of you guys are pro gun and it boils down to these:

a) Hunting
b) Sports and fun
c) Home defence
d) Insurance against a tyranical government

Hunting is a strange one cause you could simply use a bow, but then a gun is easier. I could personally see the allure of going out on a range and firing rounds at paper targets, cans, vegetables etc. Home defence is a double edged sword because there are cases when home invasion was foiled by the owner having a gun on the premises. The last one is ridiculous unless some of you survivalist nuts think that your shed full of hand guns is any match against U.S. Drones, tanks and soldiers who are far superior in the art of war than you.

In my opinion, for the 2nd Amendment to have it's place in a Modern America, especially if it's most important function is to prevent a tyranical government from taking control of the population, wouldn't the U.S. have to be in a state similar to Egypt or Syria? Seriously, if the U.S. government wanted to take the country by sheer force, who will stop them? They have the mightiest military on the planet. Your assault weapon is NO MATCH for Drones.

So, if the USA has to something close to Syria for the 2nd Amendment to kick in, then isn't the USA already dead at that point?

The 2nd Amendment needs serious 'amending'. It's impractical now. It should be amended for an educated citizen to have a right and requirement, not well armed citizenship.

If one messed up kid can do that much damage in one school, the United States government could crush ANY RESISTANCE by 'the people'.

I don't see anything wrong with what was just posted. Wow I agree with Flagg on something lol

[dan991]

Reality is- there is A LOT to debate on guns and gun laws. Hell.. even the convicted felon automatic disqualification needs to be revisited... but at the same time look at what is "political" versus what is something that needs to be addressed. FULLY AUTOMATIC assault rifles are illegal. SEMI-AUTOMATIC which is what was used in this school shooting is the EXACT same thing as a pistol. You're going to take away a semi-automatic "assault rifle" because ????? Next step is semi-automatic pistols?

People are confusing the difference between a fully automatic Uzi and an AR-15 you can own legally. In the real world- there are pistols of larger caliber that can do a lot more damage than that AR-15.

[gixxerboy1]

Why not? You think it matters if its a .40 cal Glock or a SEMI-AUTOMATIC AR-15? Same thing.... and in all reality the weapon of choice would be the Glock as its easier to conceal walking into the building.

Here's reality- Timothy McVeigh didn't use a gun and that dude killed MORE kids and hundreds of people. Last I checked- its still easy to rent a UHaul, its still easy to buy fertilizer, and its still easy to buy Diesel fuel.

You CANNOT stop a phsyco by implementing laws.... period. Ban what you want- anyone that wants to do a lot of damage will find a way and in reality doesn't even need to look at a gun to do it.

I'm sick of that argument, it has nothing to do with guns. Yes some people will do anything. Not everyone is going to build some bomb if they cant get a gun. And if you want to use stupid logic, the fvcking kid that just did that shooting wasn't even old enough to rent a u-haul. A seat belt isnt going to save everyone is an accident, so i gues sthere is no sense of wearing one. If im driving down the road and hit a kid on a bike going 30 im probably going to kill them, so i might as well go 70. they still will die whats the difference.

Nobody is saying changing gun laws is going to solve the problem. But if it prevents some its a start. Just because its not a fix all doesn't mean we shouldn't make an effort. "America the greatest country in the world" and we cant keep our kids safe at school. Its complete BS.
Hell the gov tracks who buys cold medicine because you could make meth, but you can order 5000 rounds of ammo online and nobody knows. 1 idiot makes a shoe bomb and we all take our shoes off at the airport. Thousands are murdered each year by guns and oh well nothing we can do.

[likelifting]

We 'might' be the greatest country in the world, but we as a people are still human. There is some real crazy people in this world. We aren't excluded from having crazy people.

[gixxerboy1]

We 'might' be the greatest country in the world, but we as a people are still human. There is some real crazy people in this world. We aren't excluded from having crazy people.

and the people in other countries in the world are human too. And they arent having the issues we have with guns deaths, but yea its nothing to do with how easy they are to get here. Lest keep hiding our head in the sand.

[Rwy]

Reality is- there is A LOT to debate on guns and gun laws. Hell.. even the convicted felon automatic disqualification needs to be revisited... but at the same time look at what is "political" versus what is something that needs to be addressed. FULLY AUTOMATIC assault rifles are illegal. SEMI-AUTOMATIC which is what was used in this school shooting is the EXACT same thing as a pistol. You're going to take away a semi-automatic "assault rifle" because ????? Next step is semi-automatic pistols?

People are confusing the difference between a fully automatic Uzi and an AR-15 you can own legally. In the real world- there are pistols of larger caliber that can do a lot more damage than that AR-15.

Your not willing to even meet remotely in the middle dan. We can agree to disagree at this point.

[Rwy]

We 'might' be the greatest country in the world, but we as a people are still human. There is some real crazy people in this world. We aren't excluded from having crazy people.

Greatest country you cant be serious lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqcLUqYqrs

[dan991]

and the people in other countries in the world are human too. And they arent having the issues we have with guns deaths, but yea its nothing to do with how easy they are to get here. Lest keep hiding our head in the sand.

We are also 4-5 times the size in population of countries we keep getting compared to. 150 in the UK a year means 450 here and 800 if comparing Australia. Not to mention YOU WILL NEVER get rid of guns. Its almost impossible. There are over 270 Million guns in the US.... how do you propose you will get them back? That's only the known "registered" ones.

Yes- its annoying that there is no simple solution. The first one the government reaches for shouldn't be one that violates the US Constitution. If they are willing to violate the 2nd Amendment.... what else are they willing to violate?

[likelifting]

and the people in other countries in the world are human too. And they arent having the issues we have with guns deaths, but yea its nothing to do with how easy they are to get here. Lest keep hiding our head in the sand.

I realize they are human too.

But what about the militias in Africa stealing food supplies for themselves and letting starving children die? I'm saying there are shitty, effed up people in this world and just going after guns in this country is not the answer, imo.

[likelifting]

Greatest country you cant be serious lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqcLUqYqrs

Why are you quoting me?

[dan991]

The whole "gun" topic is a dead horse.... no matter who is talking about it. The only people that want to talk about it is the media. Those jackasses have their TV shows, they bring on all these "experts" for whatever, and when the dust settles about the only thing that will happen is they will make some very very minor changes that everyone forgets about in a month. Maybe they ban "assault rifles" again just to shut people up. People that aren't ignorant to guns already know that there is no such thing as a legal assault rifle anyways. The media uses the looks of an AR-15 for shock factor and they don't even realize that its no more powerful than a lot of handguns that are legal. Its simply just the media thriving on people's ignorance and the governments way of deflecting.

[Rwy]

We are also 4-5 times the size in population of countries we keep getting compared to. 150 in the UK a year means 450 here and 800 if comparing Australia. Not to mention YOU WILL NEVER get rid of guns. Its almost impossible. There are over 270 Million guns in the US.... how do you propose you will get them back? That's only the known "registered" ones.

Yes- its annoying that there is no simple solution. The first one the government reaches for shouldn't be one that violates the US Constitution. If they are willing to violate the 2nd Amendment.... what else are they willing to violate?

I watch the government turn a blind eye to big corporations and big banks everyday. I watch them write legislation that screws the average person to make filthy rich people even richer. The fact of the matter is not matter what the government will never get rid of guns. Why because the NRA has huge lobbying power. The government is built on legal bribery nowadays and no one is goign to shoot themselves in the foot and risk their political future becasue 20 kids got shot. Its really that simple

[dan991]

I watch the government turn a blind eye to big corporations and big banks everyday. I watch them write legislation that screws the average person to make filthy rich people even richer. The fact of the matter is not matter what the government will never get rid of guns. Why because the NRA has huge lobbying power. The government is built on legal bribery nowadays and no one is goign to shoot themselves in the foot and risk their political future becasue 20 kids got shot. Its really that simple

The NRA is one of the largest contributors to politicians for election. You think these politicians are going to go against their piggy bank? Hell no.... and the only person today that matters has no political future in another 4 years. He's the only dangerous one and regardless- he doesn't make the laws.

[gixxerboy1]

We are also 4-5 times the size in population of countries we keep getting compared to. 150 in the UK a year means 450 here and 800 if comparing Australia. Not to mention YOU WILL NEVER get rid of guns. Its almost impossible. There are over 270 Million guns in the US.... how do you propose you will get them back? That's only the known "registered" ones.

Yes- its annoying that there is no simple solution. The first one the government reaches for shouldn't be one that violates the US Constitution. If they are willing to violate the 2nd Amendment.... what else are they willing to violate?

And for the 100th most people arent saying get rid of guns. But the gun people seems thats all they hear. I never said that once.
Yes we have a larger population. Even per capita we are higher then other developed countries for gun deaths.
The 2nd amendment doesn mean anyone can have any fvcking gun they want.

Why is limiting the amount of bullets in a clip breaking the 2nd amendment?
how about better back ground checks,
close gun show loop holes.
No face to face no paperwork sales.
How about a mental test before you can get a license?
maybe you are required a mental evaluation every few years to keep your license.

If your a responsible gun owner i cant see any reason why you would have an issue with things like that,

[Rwy]

The NRA is one of the largest contributors to politicians for election. You think these politicians are going to go against their piggy bank? Hell no.... and the only person today that matters has no political future in another 4 years. He's the only dangerous one and regardless- he doesn't make the laws.

finally we agree lol

[likelifting]

And for the 100th most people arent saying get rid of guns. But the gun people seems thats all they hear. I never said that once.
Yes we have a larger population. Even per capita we are higher then other developed countries for gun deaths.
The 2nd amendment doesn mean anyone can have any fvcking gun they want.

Why is limiting the amount of bullets in a clip breaking the 2nd amendment?
how about better back ground checks,
close gun show loop holes.
No face to face no paperwork sales.
How about a mental test before you can get a license?
maybe you are required a mental evaluation every few years to keep your license.

If your a responsible gun owner i cant see any reason why you would have an issue with things like that,

Most of this is already law in CA.

[gixxerboy1]

Most of this is already law in CA.

but not in every state. So people goto another state where its easier and bring them back, but if it was like that in every state it would help.

[dan991]

Why is limiting the amount of bullets in a clip breaking the 2nd amendment? <-People that acquire guns illegally don't care about this.
how about better back ground checks, <-People that acquire guns illegally don't care about this.
close gun show loop holes. <-People that acquire guns illegally don't care about this.
No face to face no paperwork sales. <-People that acquire guns illegally don't care about this.
How about a mental test before you can get a license? <-People that acquire guns illegally don't care about this.
maybe you are required a mental evaluation every few years to keep your license. <-People that acquire guns illegally don't care about this.

If your a responsible gun owner i cant see any reason why you would have an issue with things like that, The ONLY people that get affected by your recommendations/proposed solutions are all the legal gun owners... that's it. Not the person contemplating a mass murder or any other crime involving a gun.

So....

[thegodfather]

Reality is- there is A LOT to debate on guns and gun laws. Hell.. even the convicted felon automatic disqualification needs to be revisited... but at the same time look at what is "political" versus what is something that needs to be addressed. FULLY AUTOMATIC assault rifles are illegal. SEMI-AUTOMATIC which is what was used in this school shooting is the EXACT same thing as a pistol. You're going to take away a semi-automatic "assault rifle" because ????? Next step is semi-automatic pistols?

People are confusing the difference between a fully automatic Uzi and an AR-15 you can own legally. In the real world- there are pistols of larger caliber that can do a lot more damage than that AR-15.

Incorrect. It is on a state by state basis, in the majority of states where you may own a handgun, you may also purchase a Class 3 Tax Stamp, allowing you to purchase a fully automatic weapon. This comes with some caveats however, as owning a fully automatic weapon (of any make, caliber, & type) means that you must allow the ATF to come into your home and inspect the weapon 24/7/365, unannounced, at any time of their choosing. So, you do give up some amount of freedoms when purchasing a fully automatic weapon. However, I believe since 1986 (when fully automatic weapons were no longer produced/imported for public purchase) there have only been two instances where a registered fully automatic weapon was used in a crime. By the way, if you are a 2A supporter, please refrain from using the word 'assault rifle,' there is no such thing as an assault rifle, it is a term that was coined by the leftist Brady Campaign. It is simply a rifle, either semi-automatic or select fire, like any other rifle.

[likelifting]

Actually Prince Harry Reid's state (Nevada) is right next door and has very liberal gun laws. Its never happened to me, but its pretty widely known that the ATF watches these shows and watches I-80 coming back to CA and stops people all the time. No joke. No bullshit.

[DB1982]

Everybody is debating about gun control right now and its honestly stupid.

Fact -- A Gun sitting in the middle of a crowded room will do no harm . ( unless a PERSON uses it)

- Banning/ gun control will not stop criminals from having guns. (Only honest people)

- Guns have saved countless lives over the years. ( but when somebody rescues or saves someone with the use of a firearm the MEDIA focuses on the person not his weapon. But when a crime is committed the MEDIA focuses on the weapon ) Think about that for a minute.

I find it ironic people on this forum believe harder gun laws will fix this problem.
Considering Steroids are illegal and doesn't stop a majority of those on this site. So what makes any of you believe gun control will stop anybody that's want a gun.

I'm all for better gun laws and harsher punishments with gun crimes.
But banning a certain gun is idiotic like that will help anything. Assault rifles were banned for 10 years in the US IN THE 90'S and that didn't solve anything.

Food for thought
The most dangerous dog in America is a German Shepard because it also the most popular. So why is it that the media only demonizes Pittbulls ??? (Its the Media) The same media that demonizes steroids with baseless facts . But you'll sit here and defend steroids ( because you enjoy them and use them properly) but turn around and eat the BS the media feeds you about guns and don't care because it doesn't effect you cause you don't own any guns. (Hypocritical)


Most people here will agree any dog with the right owners/families are great companions.
Steroids when used right, by the right person are perfectly safe.
Guns when used safely are harmless and can save lives.

[DB1982]

The whole "gun" topic is a dead horse.... no matter who is talking about it. The only people that want to talk about it is the media. Those jackasses have their TV shows, they bring on all these "experts" for whatever, and when the dust settles about the only thing that will happen is they will make some very very minor changes that everyone forgets about in a month. Maybe they ban "assault rifles" again just to shut people up. People that aren't ignorant to guns already know that there is no such thing as a legal assault rifle anyways. The media uses the looks of an AR-15 for shock factor and they don't even realize that its no more powerful than a lot of handguns that are legal. Its simply just the media thriving on people's ignorance and the governments way of deflecting.

I agree