The mainstream media did this to America

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Neither has Hillary....

The 2016 election was on November 8th, 2016.
Hillary conceded on November 9th, 2016.

She does still bitch to this day...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...%20territories.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillar...the%20campaign.

[tarmyg]

Neither has Hillary....

As far as records go she conceded quite publicly. How is that in anyway in dispute or are you referring to something else?

[charger69]

Neither has Hillary....

LMAO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Beetlegeuse]

Thomistic Thinker

Making Common Sense Great Again

Skeptical of Voter Fraud in 2020?
Here’s Your Evidence.

Posted on November 20, 2020 by Gil Sanders

Has anyone ever told you that “You can’t do it” and “You’re crazy” over and over? Perhaps they’ve told you this so many times, you’ve started to believe it yourself. This is what’s happening in our election today. The media is telling us “There is no evidence. You can’t prove it” and “You are just a crazy conspiracy theorist” over and over again. They’re gaslighting, ridiculing, and dismissing. But we all know something is up. 70% of Republicans suspect foul play; far lower than it has ever been in the history of U.S. elections. Something doesn’t smell right, even if we can’t quite put our finger on it. Can we do better than that though? Can we provide evidence? I will argue that we most certainly can. If you suspect fraud or you are open to the possibility, this article is for you.

Preliminaries

First, it is important we begin with a clear and precise thesis:

We will be using BBC’s criteria to make the minimal claim that we have good reason to suspect that there is targeted fraud in some key battleground states (PA, WI, MI, GA, and AZ). Their results do not pass the “sniff” test. We are not claiming there is decisive evidence of targeted fraud (yet), that there is nation-wide voter fraud in every state, that every Democrat and news outlet is conspiring together, or that there is massive fraud in the millions. Rather, we are making the more limited and the far more modest claim that we tentatively have good reason to suspect that targeted fraud exists in some of the key states, that several powerful figures are behind this, and that this fraud is significant enough to flip the election in Trump’s favor even if that is by a small margin.

We are taking a minimal approach here because it is intellectually honest, easier to prove, and more persuasive. If instead we started with a claim like “There are millions of fraudulent ballots! Everyone is in on this!” then not only would it clearly be false, a skeptic would dismiss our case entirely and believe that there is nothing to it whatsoever. Now if you believe the evidence justifies a stronger thesis, that’s perfectly compatible with this thesis. I am not saying that the minimal, and only the minimal thesis is true. I am simply arguing that at least the minimal thesis is true.

Second, we should make a distinction between radical conspiracies and normal conspiracies. Radical conspiracies are like faked moon landings, lizard people ruling the earth from the underground, and all of that crazy stuff. Normal conspiracies are just normal human beings with normal motives conspiring to do bad things. This happens all of the time. North Korea’s leaders conspire to oppress their people, Nazi Germany conspired to murder Jews, Japan conspired to bomb Pearl Harbor, thieves conspire to rob banks, and you get the point. The idea that voter fraud took place in this election is a normal conspiracy. All this conspiracy requires in order to work is a few people with the means, motive, and opportunity in some key areas. That’s why I call it targeted fraud rather than massive fraud.

Don’t let anyone get away with conflating targeted fraud with radical conspiracies. If they do, make this point: These same people accepted baseless conspiracy theories like the Russian Collusion hoax despite the fact that Leftists journalists like Matt Taibbi and Greenwald showed it was baseless. They also immediately rejected the Hunter-Biden emails as Russian disinformation without any evidence whatsoever. They’re not in any position to ridicule us. To better understand why this is not a radical conspiracy, I would highly recommend Edward Feser’s article against conspiracies.

Now, my job is to provide evidence of targeted fraud. But before I do, I need to lay the foundation because that will help support our evidence. Four things will comprise our foundation: historical precedent, means, motive, and opportunity. As I was writing this, Edward Feser posted an article with a similar structure here. You should read that as well.

Historical precedent

Has voter fraud happened before? Yes!

* Heritage records 1,298 proven instances of voter fraud.
* 20 state elections have been overturned due to fraud.
* Abraham Lincoln faced the most elaborate election fraud scheme in America’s history with mail-in ballots.
* In 1994 the Democrats enforced a “massive scheme” to steal the PA’s Senate election.
* A great plot to sway Montenegro’s election was uncovered.
* Significant voter fraud seems to have occurred in Bolivia.
* Both Joe Biden and Jimmy Carter were concerned about voter fraud.
* More recently, NJ had rampant voter fraud.
* The DNC conspired against Bernie Sanders in the election process.
* Non-partisan experts discovered very extensive evidence of suspicious discrepancies in 2016’s election that “were overwhelmingly to Clinton’s benefit.”
* Venezuela’s election had 1 million fake votes.
* There’s evidence that Al Franken won through voter fraud.
* A historian thinks Nixon may have been cheated out by 100,000-200,000 votes.
* Rod Blagojevich, a former governer of Illinois who was convicted of selling a Senate seat and other corrupt activities, claims voter fraud occurs on a regular basis.
* Most countries ban mail-in voting because of significant fraud problems.
* Steve Baker says “there is widespread abuse of postal votes…”
* A 2007 report by Teresa James and Michael Slater found that “Vote by mail is more susceptible to corruption than voting at polling places.”
* 15 elections were thrown out because of fraudulent mail-in ballots.
* In 2012 the NY Times said mail in ballots are “more likely to be compromised.”
* NPR reports thousands of mail in ballots were rejected, admitting that it is “fraught with potential problems.”
* Republican Steve Watkins was charged with voter fraud.
* In 2016, NYC wrongfully purged 200,000 voters.
* Former election official pleads guilty to stuffing ballot box for Democrats.
* Some “fact checkers” use the Brennan Center Report to dismiss voter fraud. John Glibbs provides a good response.
* Georgia official admits 1,000 people voted twice in the primaries.
* For more evidence of mall-in ballot fraud, see here, here, and here.
* Just Facts estimates that probably 1 million non-citizens have voted in the past. Briggs refutes the fact checkers on this.

Means

Do the Democrats have the ability to commit targeted fraud? You bet.

* Tech experts were able to hack an election in seven minutes.
* Russians were purportedly able to hack our 2016 election.
*The Guardian criticized Dominion for acting like “they are above the law.”
* A federal judge “expressed serious concerns’ about Dominion’s system in Georgia.
* An academic paper claims Dominon’s systems “cannot assure the will of the voters.”
* 96% of Dominon’s donations go to Democrats. They admit as much.
* The Brennan Center for Justice claimed that election vendors are prime targets that require oversight.
* Voting machine firms reportedly added lobbyists.
* Elizabeth Warren and others filed a formal complaint over the machines switching votes.
* AP questioned the reliability of these new voting machines.
* A whistleblower on the NY post explains how voter fraud works.
* An extensive study by Public Interest Legal Foundation suggests that there are 300,000+ dead people on voter rolls.
* One million dead people got stimulus checks.
* There are 1.8 million possible ghost voters.
* One study shows that there are 353 U.S. counties with registration rates exceeding 100% of eligible voters.

All it takes is one hacker to affect this entire election. Just one. It’s also clear that politicians have the arsenal (dead people, ghost voters, illegal voters) and questionable voting systems to do damage. I am not saying that the full arsenal is being used – especially since some errors are gradually being corrected – but it leaves open the real possibility of targeted fraud.

Motive & Opportunity

Democrats have the king of all motives and plenty of opportunity.

* Trump and his supporters are the embodiment of all that is wrong with America.
* They are white supremacists, sexists, anti-Muslim, anti-LGBTQ, despicable fascists, sycophants, neo-nazis, and anti-rights.
* Some even claim that Trump is more dangerous than Hitler!
* Nancy Pelosi herself showed nothing but unprecedented contempt when she tore up Trump’s State of Union address.
* After Biden’s alleged win, the Left celebrated like crazy and shouted all kinds of profanities against Trump.
* If given the opportunity, why wouldn’t Democrats remove Trump (aka Hitler) illegally?
* Voter fraud already occurs often enough at a smaller scale, and it has happened (although less commonly) at a larger scale. The opportunity exists.

As you can perhaps see now, there is some basis or evidence for our suspicion based on the data presented above. But that data and reason by itself is not sufficient to show we have good reason for thinking that targeted voter fraud took place in 2020. We need to look at the specific events that occurred in 2020 in order to justify our thesis.

The Evidence

In 2016 BBC provided a very helpful set of criteria (or signs) of a rigged election. Elizabeth Blunt is an experienced BBC journalist who has witnessed many elections in Africa, some of which were proven to be rigged. There is no better source to use because she has no political axe to grind. Recall, however, that this article is not claiming to provide decisive evidence. Just as a fire alarm going off, screaming, and smoke is evidence of fire, so too are these signs evidence of fraud. But these signs could obviously be wrong. The fire alarm going off, the screaming, and the smoke might be explained by a broken alarm, a loud horror movie, and a bachelor overcooking his food. It’s possible then to provide reasonable explanations of these signs but that shouldn’t be our first instinct. We should take it at face value, especially because of what’s at stake. We’d be perfectly justified in our belief that there is a fire until proven otherwise. Same applies here. When we take these signs together, it provides a good cumulative case for targeted fraud, which calls for further investigation. So without further, let’s go through a few of the signs and show how it parallels what is happening in this election.

Delay in announcing results

It is an undeniable fact that results got delayed. As BBC says, however, this by itself is not “necessarily a sign of rigging” but it “is certainly dangerous.” No doubt these delays can primarily be explained by COVID-19 and by the unprecedented amount of mail-in ballots that require additional verification. But explaining why delay has occurred does not magically remove the fact that it greatly increases the risk of fraud and should be viewed with suspicion. Especially when tensions are as high as they are in the U.S. this year, it is simply disgraceful and dangerous that our country “has no ability to perform the simple task of counting votes in a minimally efficient or confidence-inspiring manner.” As Greenwald further points out, Brazil with a population of 210 million “holds seamless, quick vote counts about which very few people harbor doubts” despite being “much poorer and less technologically advanced country than the U.S.” NY is so embarrassed by how slow their process is, they admit it would be a “national scandal” if they were a swing state.

We not only had serious delays, but we had key states (MI, WI, and PA) suddenly flip from Trump to Biden overnight after some ballot dumps. PA suspiciously stopped counting mail in ballots at 9:30 PM. A Leftist source reports a very strange spike in Wisconsin for Biden. Another PA ballot dump reported a 92-8 margin, while another ballot dump of 23,277 was for Biden. Michigan’s vote dump had 138,339 Biden votes, which Decision Desk HQ said was an error that added an extra zero. Michigan gave 6,000 votes to Biden, but it was another glitch. Antrim County flipped blue due to another glitch. Another error in Georgia was found that reduced Biden’s lead from 7,000 to 4,000. 20,000 votes all came for Biden while 1,000 Trump votes disappeared. 2,600 uncounted votes, mostly for Trump, were found on a memory card. A third Georgia county found the same. Why are memory cards, that can be easily disposed or lost, being used here? All of this raises red flags.

Too Many Voters

As BBC notes, even in areas where voting is obligatory, “turnout only reaches 90-95%.” If we see these numbers in our counties, it’s a red flag. MN had a 90% turnout and WI had a 89% turnout. These are highly abnormal turnouts, especially when we compare them to nearby or similar states like Florida and Iowa that had 10% less turnout. Olmstead saw a 90% voter turnout. Milwaukee had close to 100% turnout. The officials of Milwaukee scrambled to correct the numbers, which the fact checkers make use of, but it’s still problematic.

High Turnout in Specific Areas

A study shows that in PA “Biden soared in three predominately R counties, by 1.24 to 1.43 times greater than either Obama run or Hillary” which seems to be quite a suspicious turnout. It is also odd that PA and MI had massive mail-in ballot numbers compared to the rest of the country. Another confirms that mail in ballots in PA and MI dwarfed other swing states. We also had an abnormally high number of Biden-only ballots in the key states: 98,000 in PA, 80,000 in GA, 90,000~ in MI, and 62,000 in WI. Biden’s absentee lead does not match up with other states. Another person observed that Joe Biden votes greatly exceeds the votes that Senate candidates received in swing states, whereas those cast for Trump and GOP senators are much closer. This is suspicious because the overwhelming vast majority of people said they’d vote a straight party ticket, and the great dissimilarity just doesn’t make sense.

(end of part 1)

[Beetlegeuse]

(beginning of part 2)

Large Numbers of Invalid Votes

This data is still forthcoming, but according to NPR, we already have 550,000 primary absentee ballots rejected that far outpaces 2016. NY Times says that nearly 100,000 invalid absentee ballots were sent. There’s a lawsuit, backed by eyewitness testimony with signed affidavits, claiming that 40,000 ballots in Detroit are invalid. There is evidence of tossed Trump-ballots. Kayleigh claims to have 230 pages of signed affidavits of questionable practices by various officials, some of which mention discarded votes.
Miscellaneous Evidence

Other crumbs that raise concerns over our election’s reliability

* More than 200,000 ballots in Nevada got sent to the wrong address
* Interestingly, Trump has been warning about voter fraud since 2012. This challenges the narrative that Trump screams fraud only for self-interest.
* This year 80,000 ballots were disqualified in NYC. 35,000 in Florida.
* CNN says 160,000 ballots were not delivered in Maryland.
* California rejected 100,000 mail in ballots this year.
* Wisconsin rejected 23,000 ballots because of a small error (Trump’s prior 2016 margins), which can make the difference between winning or losing.
* 28 million ballots have been missing in the last four elections!
* 72% of Detroit’s absentee ballot counts were off.
* PA rejects 372,000 ballots because of duplicates, causing “mistrust in already-anxious voters.” They caught it this time, but what else is falling through the cracks?
* First hand account of election workers kicking out GOP observers.
* Secretary of PA Improperly Changed Deadline 2 Days Before Election Day.
* Some Dominion Systems are connected to the internet when they shouldn’t be.
* PA count late ballots without postmarks as if they were received on Election Day
* Russell Ramsland of Allied Security Operations filed an affidavit, stating that our systems have large vulnerabilities and the election has significant anomalies.
* Twitter user gives an interesting analysis of the election data.
* Benford’s law might have use for detecting fraud, but proceed with caution.

Objections

“If there is fraud, how do you explain the Democrats losing the Senate?”

The answer is quite simple. A good thief focuses on the crown jewel; taking other jewels in the process radically increases the risk. A good thief cannot get too greedy. Trump is that crown jewel. If they tried to take over the House and Senate, it would not only be monstrously harder (requiring massive fraud as opposed to targeted fraud), it would infuriate the GOP and unite them under Trump. This objection makes as little sense as saying a man cannot be guilty of robbery because he didn’t rob all of the money. Lastly, it’s worth pointing out that just because the Democrats lost the Senate does not mean that they didn’t succeed in stealing some seats. We just don’t know yet.

“But fact checkers say x irregularity is not evidence of voter fraud!”

First off, most fact checkers agree that these glitches, irregularities, and events occurred. They just deny it is evidence of fraud because they examine each irregularity or event in isolation. They’re right. No single irregularity by itself is evidence of fraud, but when we combine them with other irregularities and events, it obviously becomes evidence in the same way a fire alarm, screaming, and smoke is evidence of a fire. Second, we must be wary of fact checkers because they’ve made significant errors, are biased, and are not trained in critical thought. I have seen fact checkers quote representatives of Dominion Systems to show that voter fraud did not occur, which is as ridiculous as asking an alleged robber if they robbed a bank. Of course they’re going to deny it. Now I’m not saying do not use fact checkers whatsoever. I used them to weed through a lot of false information about voter fraud. But you should always read them critically.

“If your evidence is so great, why don’t you give it to the courts?”

I am a philosopher, not a lawyer. My goal is to persuade the American people that at the very least we have good reason to be skeptical of this election’s integrity. I am not claiming to have proved beyond a reasonable doubt that there is fraud. So if the courts require proof beyond a reasonable doubt, then this article obviously fails to meet that standard – which is not a refutation because that was not my goal in the first place. This is equivalent to telling a soccer player he lost because he wasn’t playing basketball. Furthermore, not everything that is true can be proved in the courts. You can be justified in believing that John was lying to you even if you couldn’t prove it in court. I suspect, however, that in court we do not need proof of voter fraud because reasonable doubt over this election’s integrity may suffice to call for a serious investigation or recall. If that’s the case then this article may serve to help that cause after all, but again, I am not a lawyer so who knows.

Summary

I will be quoting someone from a private email exchange (the links are my additions) because he sums this up very well: “Going into midnight on Election Day, President Trump was leading by historic margins in Florida, Ohio, and a dozen bell-weather counties which have been accurate in 90% of past elections. He was up across all voter demographics including African Americans and Hispanics. Still, Fox and others refused to call key states in his favor (even Alaska!). Everywhere you looked, Trump was outperforming. Then swing states with Democratic governors stopped counting with no explanation. Later, at 4 AM, massive dumps of unobserved ballots ostensibly tipped the key races in Biden’s favor.” What are the odds that almost all of these irregularities, high turnouts, and ballot dumps in key states consistently favor Biden? These are serious errors. What are the odds that Florida and other counties failed to predict this election’s outcome ? It’d be absurd to deny it’s improbable! Attach this improbability to the foundation we built earlier and we have a good case for targeted voter fraud.

What amazes me is how dismissive and arrogant people get over this issue. Imagine someone saw signs of a fire next door but kept mocking, “No decisive evidence you idiots!” instead of calling 911 or investigating it. It’d be absolutely unacceptable, if not downright immoral. That’s happening right now. No good person could possibly claim to champion people’s rights while dismissing their concerns of possible fraud. The integrity of our vote and our elective system is at stake here. Now it may turn out that these signs, while normally reliable, are best explained by something other than fraud. I am perfectly open to being wrong. However, as of now we have good reason for believing this. Our view can be falsified if the DOJ, FBI, courts, and other independent agencies properly investigate and say otherwise. Time will tell. In the meantime, I would recommend further research using the articles below. I do not accept every claim made in these articles, but they remain helpful and interesting.

Further Reading

* Mark Chatham’s article shows that our 2020 election would be considered fraudulent if held in a foreign country. A must read.
* Daniel Horowitz gives a similar, carefully argued case for voter fraud.
* ZeroHedge offers a good analysis of fraud in PA.
* Libertas Bella has an extensive take on the evidence.
* Every Legal Vote has a lengthy article explaining why this election is suspect.
* Powerful data analysis of fraud can be found here, here, here, and here.
* Michael Anton warned of a coming coup here and here.
* Here Is The Evidence records irregularities and anomalies.
* Jennifer Cohn presents Dominion’s suspicious history.

Published by Gil Sanders

thomisticthinker.com/skeptical-of-voter-fraud-in-2020-heres-your-evidence/

[Beetlegeuse]

Judge blocks certification of Pennsylvania election results

[Beetlegeuse]

Damn! There's just never a cop around when you need one.

Black Lives Matter Leader Killed in Carjacking

Ain't karma a beyotch?

[tarmyg]

Damn! There's just never a cop around when you need one.

Black Lives Matter Leader Killed in Carjacking

Ain't karma a beyotch?

Someone you disagree with died and you make it sound like that is ok! In my opinion you are a disgusting human being.

[Beetlegeuse]

No one is arguing that these statistical anomalies didn't occur but the odds of them all occurring coincidentally and without human intervention are on par with the odds against a snowstorm creating a perfect snowman, complete with lumps of coal for eyes and a carrot for its nose.

(Includes extensive documentation [PDF])

The Scandal of the Century

How Election Was Stolen

Analysis Shows Obvious Fraud By Computer in States of GA, PA

Fake Votes Were Reported in Multiples of 4,800 Votes in GA,6,000 in PA in Identical Fashion

New York Times Election Report Reveals 104,984 Stolen Votes in Ga, 347,768 in PA

Millions of Mail Ballots Made It Impossible to Track Which Votes Were Being Tabulated

Georgia: When Ballots from Nowhere Arrived in Multiples of 4,800 Votes

Pennsylvania Also Suffered Vote Fraud But by Multiples of 6,000 or 12,000

Guiliani: We Have Someone in Dominion

“We have a person in-side Dominion who has come forward and signed an affidavit that Dominion observed the hundred thousand phony ballots that were brought in at four o’clock in the morning on Nov. 5 that were all Biden ballots.

“They appeared by every measure to be phony ballots, since they were brought in the back door, they were not in the proper containers, they were sticking out of paper bags and cardboard boxes.

(The Dominion insider) was told they were ballots that were needed to ‘catch up to Trump’ because Trump was ‘too far ahead’. When they were counted, they were all counted in favor of Biden. The woman from Dominion testified under oath that she saw not a single vote for Trump from among these, and she was there for four or five hours. She said it appeared to her to be horribly corrupt, and when she reported it, nothing was done about it. She was told it wasn’t any of their business...

... [T]hey were panicked because Trump was ahead by much more than they anticipated. The same thing happened in Pennsylvania. It’s inherently impossible to make up for (a margin of) 800,000 votes at 64 per-cent of the votes tallied). You have to cheat to do it. Philadelphia has cheated in every election in the last 60 years. Philadelphia has more people who have gone to jail for election fraud than probably any-where else in the country. And it’s all Democrat election fraud, because it’s been controlled by a corrupt Democrat machine for the last 60 years.

So when they fell behind by 800,000 votes, they went into a state of panic. So they had to shut out all the Republicans. They had to bring in all the phony ballots.

We never got to examine over 600,000 ballots, which makes them all unlawful — Illegal, unlawful, fraud, fraudulent.

I doubt the (Supreme) court will allow them to count those ballots. I’m sure the state legislature will not accept those ballots in order to certify electoral votes.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Video proof: Trump screams "I don't wanna go" as Pence tries to persuade him...

[wango]

And, they can be heard uttering, if Trump won’t concede, neither will we . . .

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Judge blocks certification of Pennsylvania election results

Yet another loss for the Trump team...

"Appeals Court Rejects Trump Election Challenge in Pennsylvania"

Great quote by a Trump appointed judge on the case

“Free, fair elections are the lifeblood of our democracy,” Judge Stephanos Bibas, a Trump appointee, wrote on behalf of the appeals court. “Charges of unfairness are serious. But calling an election unfair does not make it so. Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here.”

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11...sylvanias-vote

Winning a case on Twitter is easy...
Actually presenting a case and providing proof is proving to be something that Trump can't do.

[kelkel]

Actually presenting a case and providing proof is proving to be something that Trump can't do.

Realistically it would be hard for anyone present a case in such a short period of time. Regardless of party affiliation or the nature of the case.

[Test Monsterone]

Realistically it would be hard for anyone present a case in such a short period of time.

It's definitely hard to present evidence that doesn't exist. If they're so adamant about election fraud occurring, how is it that not even a semblance of evidence is to be found?

Here's a secret... Trump is just using the "election fraud" scheme to make more MONEY. It comes in the form of donations and fundraisers. Trump will continue proclaiming election fraud as long as he benefits from it. It's the same as the rallies, only this time the allegations are serious and damaging to our election process. He knows he is not going to win any of these lawsuits because it's all bs.


This Trump fan donated 2.5 million dollars to a pro-Trump fund group filing lawsuits to overturn the election results. Then those lawsuits were dropped, and he was out of 2.5 million.... so he's suing the group:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ts/6440272002/


How many thousands of people have donated, just like this guy? Trump owes a lot of money, and this election fraud scheme is another fundraising tactic at the expense of his supporters and the democratic process.

[wango]

Realistically it would be hard for anyone present a case in such a short period of time. Regardless of party affiliation or the nature of the case.

Typically in a lawsuit you bring your claims/evidence to a lawyer/legal team and they determine if a case is warranted. Then they compile additional evidence to solidify the case (because why go to court without evidence?). Then a suit is filed and you strengthen your case further. If you win, then you can gloat and make your stronger accusations; because you’ve been proven accurate. If you do it in reverse order and you lose, you could risk a defamation law suit against you.

But how the hell can he be sued over the damage he’s doing to the electoral process, not that he necessarily cares?

[Test Monsterone]

What did I tell you?

TRUMP HAS RAISED UP TO $170 MILLION SINCE ELECTION DAY

"President Donald Trump has raised between $150 million and $170 million since Election Day amid ongoing appeals to supporters as part of his effort to undercut results of the race that saw him lose by millions of votes to President-elect Joe Biden, according to several media reports.

Both The Washington Post and The New York Times reported details of the massive haul, much of which was raised through small-dollar donations from the president’s ardent base in the week after the election.

But those appeals are based on misleading emails and text messages, and the Trump campaign has been using shady legal language buried in the solicitations that effectively gives the president broad power to use the money for a variety of purposes beyond fighting the outcome of the election. The fine print behind the fundraising says the first 75% of any donation goes to the Save America leadership political action committee, which Trump set up in mid-November, and the remaining 25% goes to the Republican Party’s operating expenses.

Any donor would have to give more than $5,000 before their money would go to the recount effort.

Trump and his surrogates have continued to spout lies about the election, pointing to discredited conspiracy theories about voting machines and fraud behind mail-in ballots. There has been no evidence to back up those claims, and every legal effort the president has backed to overturn election results in six battleground states has failed.

All six battleground states have now certified their votes declaring Biden the winner. The president-elect is set to be inaugurated on Jan. 20, and Trump will have to leave the White House (his administration signed off on the official transition last week after resisting doing so for days).

The figures, shared by an anonymous source close to the Trump campaign, are mammoth and unprecedented. They near sums raised at the height of the presidential race and would almost guarantee that Trump will exit the White House with all of his campaign debt paid off and a sizable chunk in the bank for any political activity after his presidency.

The Post noted there are few limitations on how the money can be spent and that it could easily flow to Trump’s own properties through event fees or pay for his travel or personal expenses."

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump...060206895.html

[kelkel]

It's definitely hard to present evidence that doesn't exist. If they're so adamant about election fraud occurring, how is it that not even a semblance of evidence is to be found?

How many thousands of people have donated, just like this guy? Trump owes a lot of money, and this election fraud scheme is another fundraising tactic at the expense of his supporters and the democratic process.

You can't realistically say it doesn't exist. There have been many cases of individual allegations, affadavits of fraud, anomalies, etc in this election. Simply initiating mass mall out ballots to non updated voter roles should be a big red flag to any american concerned with potential fraud. Just showing systemic fraud is the issue. I don't think they'll find enough to change the outcome.

Every politician raises money in any way they can. All of their reasons are not altruistic unfortunately. Doesn't matter which party.

[kelkel]

Typically in a lawsuit you bring your claims/evidence to a lawyer/legal team and they determine if a case is warranted. Then they compile additional evidence to solidify the case (because why go to court without evidence?). Then a suit is filed and you strengthen your case further. If you win, then you can gloat and make your stronger accusations; because you’ve been proven accurate. If you do it in reverse order and you lose, you could risk a defamation law suit against you.

But how the hell can he be sued over the damage he’s doing to the electoral process, not that he necessarily cares?

Good points. I still think the biggest issue is mass mail out ballots. Not absentee ballots.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Good points. I still think the biggest issue is mass mail out ballots. Not absentee ballots.

1:
Before the 2020 election there were already 6 states (I believe) that had mail in ballots to every registered voter.
I believe they were Colorado, DC, Hawaii, Montana, Oregon, and Washington.

Nobody ever complained about fraud in those states mail in voting.

Yes mail in ballots are more susceptible to fraud.
Both Democrats and Republicans have cheated with them.

But we have had them in previous elections and Trump didn't bitch about them in 2016 when he won.

Why on earth has it been OK for 6 states to have mass mail in ballots but now it is a problem for the other states to have them?
Why has nobody ever cried about it before?

2:
If there is some fraud, which I am sure there is,...
It will not just be Democrats comitting it.

3:
Both the DOJ and the DHS have stated that the election's outcome wasn't altered by fraud.

4:
The "many cases of individual allegations, affadavits of fraud, anomalies" that the Trump team possess are obviously bullshit.
They wave them in front of news cameras but refuse to present them in court.
The Trump team has lost over 30 court cases.

If they had smoking guns of evidence then they would've prevailed in court.

5:
Trump claimed fraud when he lost the popular vote to Hillary.
A Republican committee investigated and found no fraud.

Trump claimed fraud BEFORE this election even took place.
If the most powerful man in the world can't prove something that he had months and months to prepare for then it didn't happen.



I personally think that what Trump did is disgusting.
He tore this nation apart and destroyed people's faith in our election process all for the almighty dollar.

[kelkel]

Definitely a handful of states have their shit together and can handle mass mail in ballots. But they implemented it quickly without making sure voter rolls were updated and accurate.

DOJ and DHS commented on what they've seen so far. It was not a blanket statement.

Oh I definitely don't agree with all Trump says or does. All to often he's his own worst enemy. Not that he's had it easy though. He's been attacked non stop since he announced for president. Moreso than any presidend I've seen in my lifetime. 90% of the media, big tech, all facets of social media have done everything they can to ruin him. To me it's amazing he's lasted this long.

Regarding tearing apart this nation. I'm a bit ambivalent about that one. I guess there's a fine line between searching for truth (election issues) and causing damage to the electoral process. That said, it's hard to blame him considering how he's been treated by the entities referenced in the last paragraph.

[Test Monsterone]

Definitely a handful of states have their shit together and can handle mass mail in ballots. But they did not implement it quickly without making sure voter rolls were updated and accurate.

DOJ and DHS commented on what they've seen so far. It was not a blanket statement.

Oh I definitely don't agree with all Trump says or does. All to often he's his own worst enemy. Not that he's had it easy though. He's been attacked non stop since he announced for president. Moreso than any presidend I've seen in my lifetime. 90% of the media, big tech, all facets of social media have done everything they can to ruin him. To me it's amazing he's lasted this long.

Regarding tearing apart this nation. I'm a bit ambivalent about that one. I guess there's a fine line between searching for truth (election issues) and causing damage to the electoral process. That said, it's hard to blame him considering how he's been treated by the entities referenced in the last paragraph.

The only fraud that will be found is from the guy in the Whitehouse. It’s hard for me to take anything seriously that Trump says when he is the source of so much corruption and fraud. I just hope Americans wake up and realize what kind of man Trump is once he’s gone. He’s been attacked by everyone including republicans who are now kissing his ass. He’s a divisive person who started the whole birther lie. The ire he gets, he deserves.

[Mooseman33]

The only fraud that will be found is from the guy in the Whitehouse. It’s hard for me to take anything seriously that Trump says when he is the source of so much corruption and fraud. I just hope Americans wake up and realize what kind of man Trump is once he’s gone. He’s been attacked by everyone including republicans who are now kissing his ass. He’s a divisive person who started the whole birther lie. The ire he gets, he deserves.

hard for me to take anything seriously that you say.

People like you are divisive.

[kelkel]

The only fraud that will be found is from the guy in the Whitehouse. It’s hard for me to take anything seriously that Trump says when he is the source of so much corruption and fraud. I just hope Americans wake up and realize what kind of man Trump is once he’s gone. He’s been attacked by everyone including republicans who are now kissing his ass. He’s a divisive person who started the whole birther lie. The ire he gets, he deserves.

Not sure what corruption and fraud you're speaking about. But yes, he's been attacked by everyone because he's not a part of the establishment. We don't need smooth talking career politicians who get nothing done and simply live off the goverment. So tired of that. We need term limits badly.

[Test Monsterone]

Not sure what corruption and fraud you're speaking about. But yes, he's been attacked by everyone because he's not a part of the establishment. We don't need smooth talking career politicians who get nothing done and simply live off the goverment. So tired of that. We need term limits badly.

Not sure what corruption and fraud? Stop watching Fox news.

[kelkel]

Not sure what corruption and fraud? Stop watching Fox news.

Did you note any corruption from the other side by chance?

[almostgone]

1:
Before the 2020 election there were already 6 states (I believe) that had mail in ballots to every registered voter.
I believe they were Colorado, DC, Hawaii, Montana, Oregon, and Washington.

Nobody ever complained about fraud in those states mail in voting.

Yes mail in ballots are more susceptible to fraud.
Both Democrats and Republicans have cheated with them.

But we have had them in previous elections and Trump didn't bitch about them in 2016 when he won.

Why on earth has it been OK for 6 states to have mass mail in ballots but now it is a problem for the other states to have them?
Why has nobody ever cried about it before?

2:
If there is some fraud, which I am sure there is,...
It will not just be Democrats comitting it.

3:
Both the DOJ and the DHS have stated that the election's outcome wasn't altered by fraud.

4:
The "many cases of individual allegations, affadavits of fraud, anomalies" that the Trump team possess are obviously bullshit.
They wave them in front of news cameras but refuse to present them in court.
The Trump team has lost over 30 court cases.

If they had smoking guns of evidence then they would've prevailed in court.

5:
Trump claimed fraud when he lost the popular vote to Hillary.
A Republican committee investigated and found no fraud.

Trump claimed fraud BEFORE this election even took place.
If the most powerful man in the world can't prove something that he had months and months to prepare for then it didn't happen.



I personally think that what Trump did is disgusting.
He tore this nation apart and destroyed people's faith in our election process all for the almighty dollar.

I'm still peeling back through legislation, but most states require that the ballot signature match the signature on the ballot. This wasn't done in several cases because they had already disposed of the envelopes with the voter's signature.

Not pointing fingers at either party, our election process is somewhat flawed. Hopefully this will draw attention to a system that needs to be reviewed/upgraded.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I'm still peeling back through legislation, but most states require that the ballot signature match the signature on the ballot. This wasn't done in several cases because they had already disposed of the envelopes with the voter's signature.

Not pointing fingers at either party, our election process is somewhat flawed. Hopefully this will draw attention to a system that needs to be reviewed/upgraded.

I heard you the first time!!!!

[almostgone]

I heard you the first time!!!!

LOL, it wasn't done for emphasis. That was one of the buy one, get one free double posts that occurs out here in the sticks.

[charger69]

LOL, it wasn't done for emphasis. That was one of the buy one, get one free double posts that occurs out here in the sticks.

AG is causing problems!! LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tarmyg]

---snipp--- We don't need smooth talking career politicians who get nothing done and simply live off the goverment. So tired of that. We need term limits badly.

Had I seen this statement before Trump, I would have said something like, "You are preaching to the choir," but I have completely changed my opinion about this. Running America is serious business for serious people who has experience doing just that. This is literally a 100% turnaround for me. America is complicated, and you got to want it bad if you want to manage it. I never got the feeling that Trump cared about the country or the international community one bit beyond himself. I should state that I would be the epitome of a foreign policy hawk who think we should use our might to exert power and force change in the world because I believe our way to citizenship and governance is far superior to most of the world except for Western Europe who seems to move along just fine. My point, agree or disagree, is that we need people with massive experience doing this. Just as you gain experience in any profession, I see nothing wrong in making your life as a career politician. But this is a completely new viewpoint of mine that I am not done fully developing.

[Test Monsterone]

Personally, I was indifferent toward whether a president was a career-long politician or an outsider. To me what mattered more was the person in question; their values, character, intelligence, charisma, leadership skills, etc. Trump ran casinos, hotels, and golf courses. Maybe his qualities were good for that world. A tech mogul/CEO might possess different leadership qualities.

I agree though, that normally the best person for a job is one that has the most experience in the field. Knowing how to navigate the political waters, including just knowing your co-workers (all the other politicians, judges, senators, governors, lawmakers, etc.) is a big plus. Entering a new field, at the top level, has to be a difficult endeavor for anyone.

A nice combination would be a politician president with business/outsider vice president.

[kelkel]

Had I seen this statement before Trump, I would have said something like, "You are preaching to the choir," but I have completely changed my opinion about this. Running America is serious business for serious people who has experience doing just that. This is literally a 100% turnaround for me. America is complicated, and you got to want it bad if you want to manage it. I never got the feeling that Trump cared about the country or the international community one bit beyond himself. I should state that I would be the epitome of a foreign policy hawk who think we should use our might to exert power and force change in the world because I believe our way to citizenship and governance is far superior to most of the world except for Western Europe who seems to move along just fine. My point, agree or disagree, is that we need people with massive experience doing this. Just as you gain experience in any profession, I see nothing wrong in making your life as a career politician. But this is a completely new viewpoint of mine that I am not done fully developing.

Oh I agree, we need politicians with experience. That said, we don't need them there for 30-40 or 50 years and produce nothing. It seems they all want to die while in congress anymore. It's ego and power driven.

[kelkel]

A nice combination would be a politician president with business/outsider vice president.

Not a bad idea as long as the VP has actual input.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

what the darnation is going on here?!?!?!

A somewhat civil conversation!!!!!

I give it 3 posts at most until this gets derailed...

[kelkel]

what the darnation is going on here?!?!?!

A somewhat civil conversation!!!!!

I give it 3 posts at most until this gets derailed...

Nah. Have faith brother!

[wango]

Kel, I mean this positively and not as a critique in any way.

In many ways you are a “smooth talker” here. Not in deceptive or shifty way, but someone who can smooth over hurt egos, work with conflicting personalities & bring peace and courtesy where there previously was none.

In that respect, I believe we do need a bit of a smooth talking career politician that can negotiate both sides better without creating further divisiveness.

[kelkel]

Kel, I mean this positively and not as a critique in any way.

In many ways you are a “smooth talker” here. Not in deceptive or shifty way, but someone who can smooth over hurt egos, work with conflicting personalities & bring peace and courtesy where there previously was none.

In that respect, I believe we do need a bit of a smooth talking career politician that can negotiate both sides better without creating further divisiveness.

I appreciate your comment!

I can't disagree with your smooth talking viewpoint but I will elaborate a bit. Take Obama for example, in my opinion he was one of the best orators I've ever seen yet he achieved very little (my opinion). Then there's the current president who's not a politician and can be rude, crude and abrasive. He holds nothing back where sometimes he should. Yet his achievements in one term have been more than most do in two terms. He looked at government from a business perspective, not a political one. I guess what I'm trying to spit out is that someone who could walk that middle road would really be good for our country. Hoping for the best as whoever is president is my president.

Maybe the old Teddy Roosevelt style: "Speak softly and carry a big stick"

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Obama barely accomplished a thing because he faced a Republican majority in the Senate.

Trump accomplished much because he faced a Republican majority in the Senate.


For example:
The reason that Obama left a Supreme Court seat vacant is simply because the Senate wouldn't approve any of his picks.
Their was one pick they flat out refused to even interview.
If you remember:
Mitch McConnell wouldn't let Obama fill a seat in February because it was an election year.

"The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court Justice. Therefore, this vacancy should not be filled until we have a new president," McConnell said in a Feb. 13, 2016, statement.

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...g-supreme-cou/

Meanwhile Trump was able to fill a seat in October of an election year.

So Mitch blocked it in February because of the election 9 months away but was fine in doing in in October with the elction 1 month away.
(I guess his moral compass sways from time to time.)


So while you think Trump was sucessful because of his skill...
I think he was successful because the checks and balances were weighted in his favor.

Biden will get very little done without control of the Senate unless Senator Romney lends a hand.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I do however agree with you being a "smooth talker"...
although I would word it differently...

Guys like you and S&D have far more patience then I.
Y'all are able to keep your emotions in check far better.

Maybe you both have lower estrogen 'cause of the lower body fat.

[kelkel]

I do however agree with you being a "smooth talker"...
although I would word it differently...

Guys like you and S&D have far more patience then I.
Y'all are able to keep your emotions in check far better.

Maybe you both have lower estrogen 'cause of the lower body fat.

Ok, the lower estrogen comment made me laugh out loud while sitting at my desk and stuffing my face with my dog on my lap. I'll get back to the other post when I can but always know that I respect your viewpoint whether we differ or not.