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Thread: My First Cycle: Planning and Executing a Successful First Cycle

  1. #1001
    CaptainGoose is offline Junior Member
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    I've tried searching around but haven't found an answer to a question I have.

    My question is how would you load HCG and Test E into the same shot so that you can inject both at the same time every 3.5 days?

    I'm assuming it works by keeping both vials right side up, draw enough air for both and then put enough into each vial respectively. After you would draw for the Test vial and then from the HCG vial.

    Not saying I'm incompetent but what if for example I accidentally got a little of my test into the HCG vial or vice versa?

  2. #1002
    kirkjamest is offline Junior Member
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    Kelkel,

    Hey, thanks again for the recommendation. Told doc I'm taking 4 g of L-Arg and he was happy to prescribe the shorter acting version of that med you just recommended. ( I can't post names due to spam suspicions for a while I guess) Anyway, I assume only take it as needed because of liver hepatoxicity?

    Also, I had to leave the country for a few days and certainly didn't want to risk loosing anything so I had to skip a dose. I am currently doing 200mg cyp twice a week and had to skip one 200mg injection. I was considering just picking up where I left off, any thoughts?

  3. #1003
    kirkjamest is offline Junior Member
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    kelkel,

    By the way, the E-2 sensitive came back at 14.2. dropping to .25 Adex EOD.

  4. #1004
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirkjamest View Post
    Kelkel,

    Hey, thanks again for the recommendation. Told doc I'm taking 4 g of L-Arg and he was happy to prescribe the shorter acting version of that med you just recommended. ( I can't post names due to spam suspicions for a while I guess) Anyway, I assume only take it as needed because of liver hepatoxicity?

    Also, I had to leave the country for a few days and certainly didn't want to risk loosing anything so I had to skip a dose. I am currently doing 200mg cyp twice a week and had to skip one 200mg injection. I was considering just picking up where I left off, any thoughts?
    Yes, since you've already left just resume when you return.


    Quote Originally Posted by kirkjamest View Post
    kelkel,

    By the way, the E-2 sensitive came back at 14.2. dropping to .25 Adex EOD.
    From memory that range is 8-35? If so then sure, you can drop back a little. It's all how YOU feel. We all feel better at different levels. One size does not fit all....
    -*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-

  5. #1005
    crkr01 is offline New Member
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    Many thanks for this very useful post for me

  6. #1006
    Alvara731 is offline New Member
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    This is such a great and informative post. Thanks Austinite! I saw your height/weight recommendations. I'm 32, 5'6 185lbs. 20%bf ( gained 10lbs in the last 2 months due to trying to get up to a weight class for powerlifting). Is there a cycle to use to cut weight? My cals are at a slight deficit (200/week), I train 5 days a week on a powerlifting program. Just curious if I should cut on my own first and then start my first cycle in April/May or if there was a cycle to help cut BF. Sorry if this is a dumb question.

  7. #1007
    22-250 is offline Junior Member
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    Reposting as I think it got missed:

    Austinite, thanks again for all the info. I searched but could not find the answer to my question.

    FAQ says: "What if I develop Gynecomastia ? -- Best gyno reversal compound is Raloxifene. Dose at 60 mg daily until gone. Have it on hand if you're worried."

    I'm worried. How much should I have on hand?

  8. #1008
    Albertsteven215 is offline New Member
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    Hi I'm AL and I'm new to the forum. I'm 22yrs old, 170lb, 5'11". I started to think about steroids about a year ago when I ran an inexperienced Test/Deca only cycle(I now know how dumb that was, don't shoot me down yet lol) and experienced good gains. I realized how inexperienced I was so I layed off roids until now. I am currently considering running a Test600mg/Deca400mg/Dbol40mg cycle with arimidex and then a pct of Hgh/Nolva. I learned a lot about steroids since my first cycle, and I have built what I think is a solid foundation. I feel (in my opinion) that it's a little more of a challenge for me to add size and thickness, and mass since I'm taller and longer. I'm open to any advice that doesn't relate to my age. Please and thank you
    Last edited by Albertsteven215; 01-03-2016 at 05:51 PM.

  9. #1009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albertsteven215
    Hi I'm AL and I'm new to the forum. I'm 22yrs old, 170lb, 5'11". I started to think about steroids about a year ago when I ran an inexperienced Test/Deca only cycle(I now know how dumb that was, don't shoot me down yet lol) and experienced good gains. I realized how inexperienced I was so I layed off roids until now. I am currently considering running a Test600mg/Deca400mg/Dbol40mg cycle with arimidex and then a pct of Hgh/Nolva. I learned a lot about steroids since my first cycle, and I have built what I think is a solid foundation. I feel (in my opinion) that it's a little more of a challenge for me to add size and thickness, and mass since I'm taller and longer. I'm open to any advice that doesn't relate to my age. Please and thank you
    Post a pic

  10. #1010
    rd070707 is offline New Member
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    Hi Austinite, Quick question. 4 weeks into my test-e cycle now at 500mg/week - stats 5'8 220lb 11% bf. I have noticed no signs of gyno, no puffiness or lumps felt but my nipples are definately more pointy (erect) more often and are slightly sensitive to the touch, but only slightly not noticed in clothing.

    Is this also a symptom of high e2 levels? or will it simply clear up post cycle?

    Im not currently running an AI but would be open to suggestions if you think it would solve this issue.

    Any advice greatly appreciated

  11. #1011
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    Quote Originally Posted by rd070707
    Hi Austinite, Quick question. 4 weeks into my test-e cycle now at 500mg/week - stats 5'8 220lb 11% bf. I have noticed no signs of gyno, no puffiness or lumps felt but my nipples are definately more pointy (erect) more often and are slightly sensitive to the touch, but only slightly not noticed in clothing. Is this also a symptom of high e2 levels? or will it simply clear up post cycle? Im not currently running an AI but would be open to suggestions if you think it would solve this issue. Any advice greatly appreciated
    Re-read the thread and run AI immeaditly

  12. #1012
    Xv1d is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you for this informative thread Austinite, it has proved invaluable

  13. #1013
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    Thanks.
    ~ PLEASE DO NOT ASK FOR SOURCE CHECKS ~

    "It's human nature in a 'more is better' society full of a younger generation that expects instant gratification, then complain when they don't get it. The problem will get far worse before it gets better". ~ kelkel

  14. #1014
    kirkjamest is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Yes, since you've already left just resume when you return.

    Kelkel, check it out, I posted this in PCT also. I'm bummed but am looking for advice.

    Here is a bummer of a story. After reading and researching as much as I could I came across Austinite's post on first cycle and kelkel's responses therein and decided to pull the trigger on my first cycle. Here is what I did for 3 1/2 weeks.

    48, 5'10, 175 lbs, 17.8 percent BF
    400mg T-Cyp. 200mg IM 2X per week. Pharm grade
    Arimidex .5 PO 3X weekly
    HCG 500iu subq 2X weekly

    Did blood work after 3 weeks and adjusted fire with arimidex to .25 EOD, I added in NAC as the liver values increased pretty quick. Watched lipids climb but were still in the "not bad" range. Got some advice from Kelkel and kept on trucking. Had great total and free test, things were going awesome in the gym and I was pretty excited.

    Was just beginning to see results when I got called out of the country for what was supposed to be 4 days so I would only miss one pin, decided to leave the gear behind to reduce risk of confiscation. Turns out I got stuck in another country for a little over two weeks and missed a total of 5 pins.

    So, I got blood work as soon as I got back stateside and here is my dilemma.
    Pre cycle BW showed test at 597ng/dl and free was 10.2. LH=8.3, FSH=8.5 and TSH 3.37. Hematocrit was 46.8. E-2 non sensitive was 15.2.

    The blood work I just did showed the liver is stabilizing but the lipids are still through the roof and the Hematocrit has hit 50.7 (after 19 days of no pinning, ugh). Total T is now below baseline at 583, Free is at 11.2, LH<.2, FSH<.2 TSH=3.77. E-2 sensitive is 28.3!! Eeck. (I didn't take arimidex while outside the US)

    Clearly my system has shut down completely and I'm sure it will be only a few more days before I crash.....HARD. So, my question is, do I abandon my first ever cycle after spending so much time, effort and cash or do I pick up where I left off? (Been off for 19 days now, so right at time line to start PCT for T-Cyp)

    If I abandon I do have the necessary ancillaries including Nolv, clom and hcg (large quantities) on hand to do a proper PCT so my question then would be how long should I run PCT given the fact i was only on the AAS for 3.5 weeks? And, should PCT continue at the same doses as recommended on this board?

    LET THIS BE A LESSON TO THOSE WHO THINK A SHORT CYCLE WON'T SHUT THEM DOWN!!!!!!!!!

    Thank you in advance for any responses,

    James Tiberius Kirk.




    From memory that range is 8-35? If so then sure, you can drop back a little. It's all how YOU feel. We all feel better at different levels. One size does not fit all....
    Didn't mean to add this quote.

  15. #1015
    kirkjamest is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Yes, since you've already left just resume when you return.






    From memory that range is 8-35? If so then sure, you can drop back a little. It's all how YOU feel. We all feel better at different levels. One size does not fit all....
    Kelkel, I posted this to the PCT forum also, just need some advice, I'm inclined to abandon my efforts, do PCT then try again later. thoughts? Here is what I posted.

    Here is a bummer of a story. After reading and researching as much as I could I came across Austinite's post on first cycle and kelkel's responses therein and decided to pull the trigger on my first cycle. Here is what I did for 3 1/2 weeks.

    48, 5'10, 175 lbs, 17.8 percent BF
    400mg T-Cyp. 200mg IM 2X per week. Pharm grade
    Arimidex .5 PO 3X weekly
    HCG 500iu subq 2X weekly

    Did blood work after 3 weeks and adjusted fire with arimidex to .25 EOD, I added in NAC as the liver values increased pretty quick. Watched lipids climb but were still in the "not bad" range. Got some advice from Kelkel and kept on trucking. Had great total and free test, things were going awesome in the gym and I was pretty excited.

    Was just beginning to see results when I got called out of the country for what was supposed to be 4 days so I would only miss one pin, decided to leave the gear behind to reduce risk of confiscation. Turns out I got stuck in another country for a little over two weeks and missed a total of 5 pins.

    So, I got blood work as soon as I got back stateside and here is my dilemma.
    Pre cycle BW showed test at 597ng/dl and free was 10.2. LH=8.3, FSH=8.5 and TSH 3.37. Hematocrit was 46.8. E-2 non sensitive was 15.2.

    The blood work I just did showed the liver is stabilizing but the lipids are still through the roof and the Hematocrit has hit 50.7 (after 19 days of no pinning, ugh). Total T is now below baseline at 583, Free is at 11.2, LH<.2, FSH<.2 TSH=3.77. E-2 sensitive is 28.3!! Eeck. (I didn't take arimidex while outside the US)

    Clearly my system has shut down completely and I'm sure it will be only a few more days before I crash.....HARD. So, my question is, do I abandon my first ever cycle after spending so much time, effort and cash or do I pick up where I left off? (Been off for 19 days now, so right at time line to start PCT for T-Cyp)

    If I abandon I do have the necessary ancillaries including Nolv, clom and hcg (large quantities) on hand to do a proper PCT so my question then would be how long should I run PCT given the fact i was only on the AAS for 3.5 weeks? And, should PCT continue at the same doses as recommended on this board?

    LET THIS BE A LESSON TO THOSE WHO THINK A SHORT CYCLE WON'T SHUT THEM DOWN!!!!!!!!!

  16. #1016
    kelkel's Avatar
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    You can do either as I don't see anything surprising in your numbers given the situation. Your E2 level is fine as well assuming the normal range is 8-35 or so at Labcorp. You are shut down so the choice is up to you. Do you have the time to re-run a normal cycle without interruption? If yes and it were me, I'd probably do so. If not, then a normal 4 week pct would be the way to go.

    I will add that when off cycle and you pull BW a few months post pct, delve into your thyroid. That's an elevated level even though it's probably in your lab's ranges. A more modern range is .3 - 3.0. TSH is a weak indicator but it's still a red flag to look further. Pull TSH, FT3, FT4, RT3 and Antibodies at a minimum. Simply put though if TSH is raised and T4 is low you may very well be hypothyroid. It's why it's always best to view all numbers. Myself, for example. My TSH ranges a pretty good amount yet all my other numbers are in line.
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  17. #1017
    kirkjamest is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    You can do either as I don't see anything surprising in your numbers given the situation. Your E2 level is fine as well assuming the normal range is 8-35 or so at Labcorp. You are shut down so the choice is up to you. Do you have the time to re-run a normal cycle without interruption? If yes and it were me, I'd probably do so. If not, then a normal 4 week pct would be the way to go.


    I will add that when off cycle and you pull BW a few months post pct, delve into your thyroid. That's an elevated level even though it's probably in your lab's ranges. A more modern range is .3 - 3.0. TSH is a weak indicator but it's still a red flag to look further. Pull TSH, FT3, FT4, RT3 and Antibodies at a minimum. Simply put though if TSH is raised and T4 is low you may very well be hypothyroid. It's why it's always best to view all numbers. Myself, for example. My TSH ranges a pretty good amount yet all my other numbers are in line.
    Kelkel, thanks again for your feedback, I appreciate your input very much and again appreciate your knowledge and willingness to share it with us.

    I do have the time to start over and actually finish, the only thing that concerns me now is that would be a total of 18 to 20 weeks of total HPTA shut down, which doesn't sound very intriguing to me at 48 years old. I'm thinking PCT, see how I recover (if at all) then re-evaluate and make sure my **s is not going to be forced into leaving the country.

    The hematocrit spike also freaks me out, seems like it would be dropping since the last pin was about 14 days prior to the last blood test. But it jumped a whole percent more almost reaching 50 when I wasn't even able to inject the T. Especially given the fact I have had lower leg DVT in the past (got stuck in a plane seat at DFW for four hours) although it was almost 20 years ago.

    So, I have myself freaked out now and I'm guessing if I pose the question this way, "Should I continue with the cycle even though I have now freaked myself out?", the answer may be a little different. I didn't realize the psychological relevance of delving into the use of AAS. Hey, maybe that should be added to the first cycle advice (if it's not). Mental preparation, "make sure you can handle it ya big baby!!!" LOL.

  18. #1018
    kirkjamest is offline Junior Member
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    And I will also delve into looking at the thyroid, my doc didn't seem to be too concerned when he stated, "hmmm, looks like your thyroid is slowing down". But now that I know what to look for I will look for it and make him do something about it if something comes up. So a thousand thanks for that man, I appreciate the heads up.

  19. #1019
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    Then you should just pct. If you have negative thoughts / concerns then by all means stop, run your pct and wait for another time in the future to embark on this when you're more ready. When it comes to your hematocrit, just donate blood. Be sure to "not" answer all questions correctly or you'll be refused.

    Re thyroid, take some time and read up at Stop the Thyroid Madness™ - Hypothyroidism and thyroid mistreatment. It's a great site to learn from.
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  20. #1020
    SpotMe87 is offline Junior Member
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    excellent read

  21. #1021
    Macros is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you for the very informative post. I'm new to this thread and I'm doing research before my first cycle. I've been researching for about a year now and this post seems like the perfect cycle for me. I'm 30yo 5'9" 170lbs at approx 15% bf. I train hard and eat extremely clean and follow the right macros for my body. I'm looking to gain 15 lbs and get down near 10% bf in the next 5 years. Not really sure how to get started, so any advice that could help me reach this goal would be much appreciated.

  22. #1022
    raymondtrudeau is offline Junior Member
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    I will start second cycle (first one was 1.5 years ago) on my first cycle I did test 400 only at 600 mg per week. Now should I just stick again to test only for second cycle? I was thinking of throwing in some deca ? how much do you recommend?
    iam 48 205 lbs
    Last edited by raymondtrudeau; 01-24-2016 at 05:42 PM.

  23. #1023
    ocman is offline Junior Member
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    I didn't see anything regarding cholesterol support here or in the educational database. Do you recommend running anything to assist the cholesterol levels while on cycle, like lipid stabil?

    thanks!

  24. #1024
    michaelmike222 is offline New Member
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    Kelkel or Austintine, knowing what to expect and what to look for in blood work results seems a bit complicated. Can you please give a brief on what to look for in post cycle blood work. How would you determine that your system is "shut down"? This info would be perfect addition to this post. Thanks for all the info...appreciated more than you know.

  25. #1025
    michaelmike222 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelmike222 View Post
    Kelkel or Austintine, knowing what to expect and what to look for in blood work results seems a bit complicated. Can you please give a brief on what to look for in post cycle blood work. How would you determine that your system is "shut down"? This info would be perfect addition to this post. Thanks for all the info...appreciated more than you know.
    ***My apologies Austinite...my phone auto corrected your name to Austintine

  26. #1026
    Swolberham_Lincoln is offline Junior Member
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    Great thread! very informative especially for newer users

  27. #1027
    tank331 is offline New Member
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    I'm a noob...and this was awesome. You just may have saved my dumb ass from self-destruction....Now I'm off to print, read and share and study this with lazer focus.

  28. #1028
    lionsky is offline New Member
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    Quick question for ya Austinite.. what are you opinions on this? I'm about to do the cycle you posted, and i've recently discovered this article. Looking forward to your response.. thanks

    (cant post urls yet) just copy and paste into google lol

    evolutionry org /hcg -dangers-exposed/
    Last edited by lionsky; 02-08-2016 at 11:02 PM.

  29. #1029
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    The last response to this thread was years ago so well see if I'm lucky and get a response . I've read else where that some start Nolvadex the last week of their cycle , and I've also.seen some take it from the beginning. Any thoughts?

  30. #1030
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelmike222 View Post
    Kelkel or Austintine, knowing what to expect and what to look for in blood work results seems a bit complicated. Can you please give a brief on what to look for in post cycle blood work. How would you determine that your system is "shut down"? This info would be perfect addition to this post. Thanks for all the info...appreciated more than you know.
    When on cycle your LH/FSH levels will basically zero out due to HPTA shutdown. Your body senses all the exogenous testosterone and stops making it's own. PCT then helps to stimulate your Pituitary to function again, thus signalling downstream to produce testosterone. BW should be pulled about two months after PCT to evaluate endogenous levels.
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  31. #1031
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionsky View Post
    Quick question for ya Austinite.. what are you opinions on this? I'm about to do the cycle you posted, and i've recently discovered this article. Looking forward to your response.. thanks

    (cant post urls yet) just copy and paste into google lol

    evolutionry org /hcg-dangers-exposed/

    Not really sure of the question?
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  32. #1032
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    Quote Originally Posted by chefjmo View Post
    The last response to this thread was years ago so well see if I'm lucky and get a response . I've read else where that some start Nolvadex the last week of their cycle , and I've also.seen some take it from the beginning. Any thoughts?
    SERMS won't stimulate any pituitary function until the exogenous testosterone is out of your system. It's why there's a waiting period before PCT starts. How long depends on the ester's used. So starting it early will do nothing for you really. The only reason to take it from the beginning would be if you are gyno prone as running it at a low dose on cycle will prevent it.

    Think about it. If running serms on cycle maintained pituitary function there would not be a need for PCT. Ever.
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  33. #1033
    lionsky is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Not really sure of the question?
    Sorry about that. My question is if you all still recommend the hcg ? Alot of people say its poison considering it's pregnant womens urine. Just curious if you guys have any info on hcggenerate (which is what people are replacing hcg with). Im just looking for the better option, you all seem like a smart lot so trying to get some input.
    thanks guys

  34. #1034
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionsky View Post
    Sorry about that. My question is if you all still recommend the hcg ? Alot of people say its poison considering it's pregnant womens urine. Just curious if you guys have any info on hcggenerate (which is what people are replacing hcg with). Im just looking for the better option, you all seem like a smart lot so trying to get some input.
    thanks guys
    DO NOT USE HCGenerate... It's a complete scam.., and real HCG is safe.. It's derived from a pregnant woman's Placenta(& rat urine)

    Regardless it keeps your testes functional while on cycle... It's a suppressive too, so I ask why would this be used in a regular pct?! It's not! It helps aid in recovery as your testes are last to respond... Prevents testicular atrophy as well - it's a no brainer!

    Run in from the start of the cycle to 3 days prior to starting pct!

  35. #1035
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    Anyone with any medical knowledge will recommend HCG . It mimics LH function and keeps your testes somewhat functioning when on cycle or TRT. HCGenerate is a testosterone booster and does not take the place of legitimate HCG. Here's one quick study involving HCG and there are many:

    Preserving fertility in the hypogonadal patient: an update

    Search up Dr. Crislers paper on HCG or Nelson Vergel's as well. I would not be inclined to take a short cut involving the only set of testicals you have.
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  36. #1036
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    Taking armidex helps regulate your estrogen while on cycle. So you'd take Nolvadex and an ai for gyno problems? What kind of gyno problems would be that bad? I'm learning bro. I haven't cycled yet. I'm just trying to get all questions out before I do cycle.

  37. #1037
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    Quote Originally Posted by chefjmo View Post
    Taking armidex helps regulate your estrogen while on cycle. So you'd take Nolvadex and an ai for gyno problems? What kind of gyno problems would be that bad? I'm learning bro. I haven't cycled yet. I'm just trying to get all questions out before I do cycle.
    Lumps, sensitive nips.

    BUT before this...

    You would get BW done and adjust your AI to get ur e down.

  38. #1038
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    Quote Originally Posted by chefjmo View Post
    Taking armidex helps regulate your estrogen while on cycle. So you'd take Nolvadex and an ai for gyno problems? What kind of gyno problems would be that bad? I'm learning bro. I haven't cycled yet. I'm just trying to get all questions out before I do cycle.
    SERMS such as Raloxifene and Nolvadex will specifically target receptors in the breast tissue, thus they will help to eliminate and/or prevent gyno issues. That said, they are not AI's and will not control estrogen levels as do AI's but can be a great help to those in need.
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  39. #1039
    Steroid N00b is offline New Member
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    Thank you so much for this! Exactly what I needed. Now I just need to find a solid underground lab to get my T from.

  40. #1040
    Daxx123 is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    1
    Created an account just so I could say thank you to OP for this thread!!

    Stopped me from doing something really stupid and probably severely hurting myself. I'm not ready for hormones or AAS -- not even close. I need to go along the natural path for a long time, learn what I'm doing, and get my body ready.

    Again, thanks a million for the start up guide.

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