Chinese HGH concerns

[swithuk]

The pharm grade GH I have seen in the UK is very expensive.

Get lots of Norditropin Simplexx, Genotropin also. However, it is faked as well.

thanks mate .
i think theres loads of hgh clinics in the u.s but there dont seem to be any here . im sure we will follow them over the next few years.

[ChuckEisenmench]

I ordered GenSci Jintropin online. When I received the box it was in Russian. The vials were wrapped in Russian newspaper. It was shipped from the Eukraine. I went to the genuine GenSci website (GenSci-China.com/gensci/fake.asp) and checked on the anticounterfeiting site. The #'s under the scratch off graphite were OK. The batch was for export to Russia.
Also on the box was the logo for Europharm. I went there (Europharm.com/en/products/488/) and the graphis was identical to what I got.

[ChuckEisenmench]

I was able with a pin to pick threads out of sticker on box. This is another GOOD indicator no?

[EasyDoesIt]

I was able with a pin to pick threads out of sticker on box. This is another GOOD indicator no?

The threads are under the label. The site should show what direction the threads are displayed. If you run your finger across the label, you will feel the direction threads are running and match direction of label. That's the verification of the product being legit. Removing them does not mean anything. I had same verification, but the product was JUNK!!!
The point being as discussed by many on this thread is: Company builds a website, makes junk product, places authentication of the product consumer purchases. Problem being they make fake product and the verification makes the consumer believe that it's good. It only verifies that the company that made product proves that they made it.
In a real situation using a Company like Eli Lilly, and I use there name because anyone in U.S. is familiar with them being a strong and reputable company. if they did the same type of verification, it would prove that they made the product and not some third party person or company is making fake products and using there name, packaging etc.

[swithuk]

TBH after hearing more and more of this thread it just seems to me most people besides this one incident that I still dont truly believe soley because I along with many good bros have used anke for so many years seems to be like 1 big sourcing issue. Because i have seen top competitors using hyges, rips, novos, and thanks ...


they may well have been good . however recently something has definitely changed . many independent credible people , here and other boards , who are running it are noticing a dramatic difference .its not just chat .
me too , im running 6i.u e.d and im getting nothing ,no results and not even any sides
dont get me wrong i hope the situation is rectified and they get things back on track but they have dropped the ball or worse its intentional, which would be very short sighted

[EasyDoesIt]

TBH after hearing more and more of this thread it just seems to me most people besides this one incident that I still dont truly believe soley because I along with many good bros have used anke for so many years seems to be like 1 big sourcing issue. Because i have seen top competitors using hyges, rips, novos, and thanks ...

they may well have been good . however recently something has definitely changed . many independent credible people , here and other boards , who are running it are noticing a dramatic difference .its not just chat .
me too , im running 6i.u e.d and im getting nothing ,no results and not even any sides
dont get me wrong i hope the situation is rectified and they get things back on track but they have dropped the ball or worse its intentional, which would be very short sighted

Hey Bud: how do you know top competitors were using Rips etc.? Not to deny they were, but did a supplier tell you or the person themselves. Also, sometimes guys will use half pharm and half generic etc. for money issues.
My point is, pro's etc are pretty knowledgable or at least informed about better products and there source will get them quality product. It's kind of like the bodybuilding mags using Pro's to endorse there products as if they obtained there physique on Protein Powder, fat burners etc. Just something to think about. Unfortunately this stuff not like available retail consumer products that you can switch to any brand you want. When I got screwed on mine, I just quit using hgh. Just felt I'm not beating my head against the wall and chance blowing money again. Prob a year later obtained pharm. still would not use if I didn't. Pro's have to have, average person does not..unless medical reasons.

[swithuk]

Hey Bud: how do you know top competitors were using Rips etc.? Not to deny they were, but did a supplier tell you or the person themselves. Also, sometimes guys will use half pharm and half generic etc. for money issues.
My point is, pro's etc are pretty knowledgable or at least informed about better products and there source will get them quality product. It's kind of like the bodybuilding mags using Pro's to endorse there products as if they obtained there physique on Protein Powder, fat burners etc. Just something to think about. Unfortunately this stuff not like available retail consumer products that you can switch to any brand you want. When I got screwed on mine, I just quit using hgh. Just felt I'm not beating my head against the wall and chance blowing money again. Prob a year later obtained pharm. still would not use if I didn't. Pro's have to have, average person does not..unless medical reasons.

sorry mate . i didnt write that bit ! lol sorry . i wrote in reply to his post

i wrote this bit ..... they may well have been good . however recently something has definitely changed . many independent credible people , here and other boards , who are running it are noticing a dramatic difference .its not just chat .
me too , im running 6i.u e.d and im getting nothing ,no results and not even any sides
dont get me wrong i hope the situation is rectified and they get things back on track but they have dropped the ball or worse its intentional, which would be very short sighted

[EasyDoesIt]

sorry mate . i didnt write that bit ! lol sorry . i wrote in reply to his post

i wrote this bit ..... they may well have been good . however recently something has definitely changed . many independent credible people , here and other boards , who are running it are noticing a dramatic difference .its not just chat .
me too , im running 6i.u e.d and im getting nothing ,no results and not even any sides
dont get me wrong i hope the situation is rectified and they get things back on track but they have dropped the ball or worse its intentional, which would be very short sighted

Lol---Well at least no weird sides. Frustrating! Pulling it out of fridge thinking WTF is this going to work, knowing it isn't. Remember a lot of supplement companies spiked products then after market built and before getting caught pulled the extras out. HGH has a whole new market of average people now. The market increased in large amounts. I know guys that don't even workout buying the generics etc.

[Mrmilo]

I think the best and most productive way forward is to bypass ALL Chinese hgh weather jinss, ankie or generics no matter which country are selling them. It's obvious they have excellent counterfeit facilities and also chemicals what gives gh sides so I think your better off eliminating all Chinese hgh completely so the risk isn't there. obviously the cost is going to go up but at least you won't have all this Chinese worries to contend with.

Great thoughts. After 6 months on some yellows a few years ago sourced from China I was left wondering just what I had been taking. The manufacturing capabilities - especially the specialty labeling skills in China are second to none. They are the undisputed forgery cap of the world. As mentioned earlier the Russians/ Ukrainians are just good at ripping suckers off. So while I had results there is no way to confirm the quality of the hgh or if it was indeed hgh at all. But as we all know hgh is awesome and can improve so many things. I swear my back pain went away, eyesight improved and cardio improved massively. bf dropped from a high of 18 down to 11 with some real strength gains. At 165 I felt great and slept like a baby! Now I was focused on workout recovery and general fitness rather than size and brute strength. There was no denying this stuff worked. As a guy in his mid forties recovery and injuries were derailing my workouts like crazy! Once I hit stride with 2.5-3 iu per day 3 on one off I was at the top of my game.
Now that source has been discredited on other forums and his hoakey site looks even worse and has far fewer items. Obviously there was a crackdown. I had hoped to go with more hgh and some igf LR3 to turbocharge things- Yeah I am still too big a ***** to go do a real stack but hey just the hgh worked for me the first time. he no longer lists LR3 and his HGH is more expensive and he was hit pretty hard in other forums since he is a pretty well know supplier. So I am glad I found this forum. There is a good vibe here to help each other meet their goals. I have been considering going to a longevity clinic and discussing hgh but the pharm industry in the USA is just evil with the prices they charge. So I am at a crossroads with respect to where I go next but I am glad I found this great group. Plenty more to read. Thanks!

[EasyDoesIt]

So I am glad I found this forum. There is a good vibe here to help each other meet their goals. I have been considering going to a longevity clinic and discussing hgh but the pharm industry in the USA is just evil with the prices they charge. So I am at a crossroads with respect to where I go next but I am glad I found this great group. Plenty more to read. Thanks!

There are some reasonably priced Anti-Aging clinics in the U.S. if that's where your from. Blood work from these companies can range from 235.00-2,500.00. They do require prescription for blood work through them as they are tight with there protocol, many have been shut down for not following procedure. Also, purchasing the pharm grade hgh from them will allow you to take less with probably better results.

[Sgt. Hartman]

My ansomone 10iu vials is legit. Been on it a couple weeks now and I've thought it was real gh it seems to be working like usual and bw shows it too.

Gh serum is 20.6 1hr after 10iu and igf-1 is 635.

[blackfiveo]

got tested on IP yellows(10 IU) - saw several posts with the same batch # and exp date that were posted as bunk. Tested 2hr 45 min after 10IU. test attached
Attachment 126588

I assume they are legit? or could my body be producing this much on its own

[gixxerboy1]

got tested on IP yellows(10 IU) - saw several posts with the same batch # and exp date that were posted as bunk. Tested 2hr 45 min after 10IU. test attached
Attachment 126588

I assume they are legit? or could my body be producing this much on its own

do you have a baseline reading?
you could also have peptides that increase gh readings
also if its not bio available gh it will show an increase on blood work

[blackfiveo]

no I have never had a test before (31 years old)

I am not on anything else. What other test should I get?

[Sgt. Hartman]

no I have never had a test before (31 years old)

I am not on anything else. What other test should I get?

Igf-1. Gh serum just shows you're injecting 191aa but that doesn't mean that it's biologically active ie. that it will have the expected effect when injected.

And your results are a little low for 10iu......

[blackfiveo]

Igf-1. Gh serum just shows you're injecting 191aa but that doesn't mean that it's biologically active ie. that it will have the expected effect when injected.

And your results are a little low for 10iu......

Ok back to the drawing board, should i do the same thing 10iu 2-3hr later test for IGF-1 (Insulin Like Growth Factor) or should I do both? $80 to have the HGH done again at the same time

[marcus300]

Getting watery eyes after about 20mins after injection and it seems to stay all day. Never had this before and I thought it was just me being tired but just had another report the same. Will update soon.

[marcus300]

My ansomone 10iu vials is legit. Been on it a couple weeks now and I've thought it was real gh it seems to be working like usual and bw shows it too.

Gh serum is 20.6 1hr after 10iu and igf-1 is 635.

Let me know if you see a difference in different boxes. Had some report mixed batches, half real half fake. If you suspect some are no good pm please. Thanks..

[yom]

too much info

[yom]

can we bump a thead with what serial numbers people suspect are fake n ones that are good ?

[EasyDoesIt]

this ansamone reviews has made me very distraut as ive used these 2 yrs straight. 10 to 20iu day, as much as i can afford as i need this too stay on top in my country for bodybuilding......

ive used 4 different serial numbers since they all kept my weight at 300lbs so i might be lucky n not got a bad batch yet i hope i never do. my remailer buys alot so he may be given the good ones n small buyer the bad batch

Think it was brought up that certain countries etc were still good. Rolls back too"Selective Scamming" as Swifto pointed out. Almost like companies that test market areas first but in a bad way. Also, very obvious that it could not be a unusual or heat problem if fakes show up everywhere. Just an opinion.... On another note, 1)what type of long term side effects might come from that high of a dosage for extended period of time? 2) Excessive bone and organ growth including heart right?
I understand it's a necessity for your profession, but for knowledge sake I am just inquiring. 3) At for numbers sake, with proper training and diet how quickly would someone who is in shape notice a major change on bumping form 2iu's to 6iu's a day using Pharm grade? I am asking for personal use regarding photo shoot etc.

[yom]

look at any top pro and u will see the same. the hands grow, nose has gottten a lot bigger cartiligdge has made it thicker, stomach has gotten more distention as its used in a coctail insulin /gh/test high calorie/resistance training orgy . ive seen a friend on serotism 4iu day for 12months n was not at his genetic limit i didnt believe he even neeeded it (he didnt) hestopped the gh n replaced with rp6 n increased his cruise dose of testosterone by 400mg a week n began to grow again .2iu i cannot comment on

[Far from massive]

Yom, great to have the input of someone in your position. Thanks for your contribution to the thread.

[EasyDoesIt]

look at any top pro and u will see the same. the hands grow, nose has gottten a lot bigger cartiligdge has made it thicker, stomach has gotten more distention as its used in a coctail insulin/gh/test high calorie/resistance training orgy . ive seen a friend on serotism 4iu day for 12months n was not at his genetic limit i didnt believe he even neeeded it (he didnt) hestopped the gh n replaced with rp6 n increased his cruise dose of testosterone by 400mg a week n began to grow again .2iu i cannot comment on

Yes Yom, I am familiar with the growth on forehead, elbows etc. I was wondering more on the effects in the high dosages of the heart, organs etc. if any non reversible damage? I am not on the inside info of the Pro-Bodybuilding group of people, but as of yet have not heard of anyone having damaging effects that have affected there health permanently. I was using the 2iu as a base that I have used as a minimum for some time now. Just as information that I have been using as opposed to never using and the difference in bumping to around 6iu's. "At 58 I've pretty much reached my genetic Limit"--Lol---Just wondering due to cost if it would have physical and cosmetic advances in as little as 6 weeks. Financially I'm not sure how long I would be able to afford 6iu's of Pharm Grade, such as Serostim.
Serostim has been a great product for myself. Guess everyone is different and would just have to give it a try.
Also, I use 5 on 2 off, but have heard its better to use 3 on 1 off? I did that for awhile, but sometimes is harder to stick to that schedule.What is considered best way to take? Anyone please feel free to chime in on that question.
Thanks for commenting Yom!

[ChuckEisenmench]

If you are using 191aa bioavailibility is the result of how much is absorbed, how quickly it is absorbed ( muscle or fat injection), and how much of the drug remains free and available. If its 191aa it is 191aa period!

[ChuckEisenmench]

If you are indeed using 191aa then bioavailability is based on how much drug is absorbed (muscle or fat injection) , how quickly the drug is absorbed, and how much of the drug remains free and available. If it is 191aa it is 191aa period!

[ChuckEisenmench]

The bioavailability of HGH (191aa) is dependent on how much drug is absorbed, how quickly the drug is absorbed, and how much of the absorbed drug remains free and available. If it is 191aa it is 191aa period!

[Sgt. Hartman]

^^^^Wrong, I've posted this and copied and reposted it many times but here it is again. And there's some more good info from marcus in this thread as well (post #24). http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...=#.UFuhZJiTaJU

There's always a lot of talk on here about people wanting to get their GH tested and recently another board has posted results of several generic GH brands that they paid to have tested at a licensed US facility.

The problem with giving these tests any credibility is that there currently isn't a proper method of testing a recombinant protein based drug for "biological activity". In other words it could test to be pure 191aa GH and have absolutely none of the desired effect when administered. This article is written by Boris Y. Zaslavsky, Department of Physiology and Biophysics, Cornell University Medical College.




Recombinant DNA (rDNA) technology has led to the development of new protein-based drugs that are gaining worldwide regulatory approval. Human growth hormone , human insulin , β- and γ-interferons, and erythropoietin are just a few examples of approved rDNA-derived biopharmaceuticals.

The biological effects, purity, and potency of a drug is governed by the chemical structure of the drug for both traditional drugs and biopharmaceuticals. Standard analytical methodologies used for structural analysis of conventional drugs are, however, inadequate for complete characterization of protein-based products.

Two main reasons for this inadequacy are the large molecular size and conformational flexibility of protein-based drugs. The large molecular size hinders the possibility to detect, for example, repla***ent or chemical modification of a single amino acid residue or a change in a single glycosylation site. These alterations of the biomolecule structure, however, may lead to subtle changes of the molecule conformation resulting in significant changes in the pharmacological properties of the product.

Additionally, the wrong choice of manufacturing conditions or formulation may lead to improperly folded polypeptide chains which are biologically inactive. Hence, further methodologies capable of analysis of the protein conformation are needed.

Currently, the analysis of biopharmaceuticals relies heavily on the use of sophisticated methods for the demonstration of the structural identity, homogeneity and purity of the products. These methods include amino acid and carbohydrate analysis, N- and C-terminal sequence analysis, spectroscopic (UV, CD, ORD) analysis, peptide mapping, electrophoresis, chromatographic purity profile methods, potency/activity assays, etc. It must be emphasized that no one method is considered to be sufficient in itself, and that multiple methods are necessary to completely characterize and/or control such products.

For example, amino acid analysis for proteins with molecular weights above about 16 kilodaltons is known to be of very limited value. While useful for identification of the target protein, N-terminal and C-terminal sequencing only partially characterize the protein. Analysis of the primary structure, however, is insufficient to assure the biological potency of a protein, particularly since the potency depends on the protein conformation.

The conformation of proteins is usually analyzed by optical spectroscopy, such as UV spectroscopy, fluorescence spectroscopy, optical rotary dispersion, or circular dichroism. These methods are generally not sensitive enough to detect the subtle conformational changes caused by small alterations in the protein structure, especially if these changes do not affect side-chain chromophores from tryptophan, phenylalanine, tyrosine, and cysteine residues within the protein. Furthermore, these methods as well as others, such as electrophoresis, isoelectric focusing, differential scanning calorimetry, light scattering, ultracentrifugation, gel filtration, and immunological assays, only provide information about a particular structural or functional feature of a protein.

Chromatography is currently the most widely used analytical method for determining the purity of small organic drugs. Four modes of High-Performance Liquid Chromatography (HPLC) currently used for protein analysis are size-exclusion, ion-exchange, reversed-phase, and hydrophobic interaction chromatography. All these HPLC methods, though commonly employed to monitor the purity of biopharmaceuticals, are usually incapable of resolving proteins that differ by one or two residues or detecting other small changes in the macromolecular structure.

Hence, while chromatography is sufficient for determining whether a small organic drug is functional, the evaluation of a biopharmaceutical requires measurements of biological activity. Many of these measurements are the animal-based assays, particularly when the mechanism of action of the biopharmaceutical is not well defined. These assays are generally imprecise (with variability often 30% to 100%), time-consuming, and costly, and are not rugged. Cell culture assays can be used when the protein-based drug produces a measurable response in a cell-based system. The variability of these assays is much lower, often in the range of 10% to 30% or better (e.g., in vitro clot lysis assay has a variability of about 5%).

Physicochemical tests are much faster, more precise, and more reliable than biological assays. A physicochemical test providing information related to the biological potency of a protein-based drug would improve the control of the safety and efficacy of the drug.

Such a test should meet the following requirements: (1) it should provide information quantitatively related to the biological potency of a biopharmaceutical, (2) it should be capable of detecting minor changes in the structure of large macromolecules, (3) it should be especially sensitive to the structural changes affecting the efficacy of a biomacromolecule, (4) it should be sensitive to the presence of impurities in the product in quantities as small as 0.1 to 0.01 wt. %, (5) it should be simple, precise, and rugged, and (6) it should be time-, labor-, and cost-effective so as not to increase the overall cost of the product. Even if only some of these requirements were met, the test would improve the possibilities for assuring the safety and efficacy of biopharmaceuticals, such as recombinant human growth hormone (rhGH).

[marcus300]

^^^^Wrong, I've posted this and copied and reposted it many times but here it is again. And there's some more good info from marcus in this thread as well (post #24). http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...=#.UFuhZJiTaJU

There's always a lot of talk on here about people wanting to get their GH tested and recently another board has posted results of several generic GH brands that they paid to have tested at a licensed US facility.

The problem with giving these tests any credibility is that there currently isn't a proper method of testing a recombinant protein based drug for "biological activity". In other words it could test to be pure 191aa GH and have absolutely none of the desired effect when administered. This article is written by Boris Y. Zaslavsky, Department of Physiology and Biophysics, Cornell University Medical College.




Recombinant DNA (rDNA) technology has led to the development of new protein-based drugs that are gaining worldwide regulatory approval. Human growth hormone , human insulin , β- and γ-interferons, and erythropoietin are just a few examples of approved rDNA-derived biopharmaceuticals.

The biological effects, purity, and potency of a drug is governed by the chemical structure of the drug for both traditional drugs and biopharmaceuticals. Standard analytical methodologies used for structural analysis of conventional drugs are, however, inadequate for complete characterization of protein-based products.

Two main reasons for this inadequacy are the large molecular size and conformational flexibility of protein-based drugs. The large molecular size hinders the possibility to detect, for example, repla***ent or chemical modification of a single amino acid residue or a change in a single glycosylation site. These alterations of the biomolecule structure, however, may lead to subtle changes of the molecule conformation resulting in significant changes in the pharmacological properties of the product.

Additionally, the wrong choice of manufacturing conditions or formulation may lead to improperly folded polypeptide chains which are biologically inactive. Hence, further methodologies capable of analysis of the protein conformation are needed.

Currently, the analysis of biopharmaceuticals relies heavily on the use of sophisticated methods for the demonstration of the structural identity, homogeneity and purity of the products. These methods include amino acid and carbohydrate analysis, N- and C-terminal sequence analysis, spectroscopic (UV, CD, ORD) analysis, peptide mapping, electrophoresis, chromatographic purity profile methods, potency/activity assays, etc. It must be emphasized that no one method is considered to be sufficient in itself, and that multiple methods are necessary to completely characterize and/or control such products.

For example, amino acid analysis for proteins with molecular weights above about 16 kilodaltons is known to be of very limited value. While useful for identification of the target protein, N-terminal and C-terminal sequencing only partially characterize the protein. Analysis of the primary structure, however, is insufficient to assure the biological potency of a protein, particularly since the potency depends on the protein conformation.

The conformation of proteins is usually analyzed by optical spectroscopy, such as UV spectroscopy, fluorescence spectroscopy, optical rotary dispersion, or circular dichroism. These methods are generally not sensitive enough to detect the subtle conformational changes caused by small alterations in the protein structure, especially if these changes do not affect side-chain chromophores from tryptophan, phenylalanine, tyrosine, and cysteine residues within the protein. Furthermore, these methods as well as others, such as electrophoresis, isoelectric focusing, differential scanning calorimetry, light scattering, ultracentrifugation, gel filtration, and immunological assays, only provide information about a particular structural or functional feature of a protein.

Chromatography is currently the most widely used analytical method for determining the purity of small organic drugs. Four modes of High-Performance Liquid Chromatography (HPLC) currently used for protein analysis are size-exclusion, ion-exchange, reversed-phase, and hydrophobic interaction chromatography. All these HPLC methods, though commonly employed to monitor the purity of biopharmaceuticals, are usually incapable of resolving proteins that differ by one or two residues or detecting other small changes in the macromolecular structure.

Hence, while chromatography is sufficient for determining whether a small organic drug is functional, the evaluation of a biopharmaceutical requires measurements of biological activity. Many of these measurements are the animal-based assays, particularly when the mechanism of action of the biopharmaceutical is not well defined. These assays are generally imprecise (with variability often 30% to 100%), time-consuming, and costly, and are not rugged. Cell culture assays can be used when the protein-based drug produces a measurable response in a cell-based system. The variability of these assays is much lower, often in the range of 10% to 30% or better (e.g., in vitro clot lysis assay has a variability of about 5%).

Physicochemical tests are much faster, more precise, and more reliable than biological assays. A physicochemical test providing information related to the biological potency of a protein-based drug would improve the control of the safety and efficacy of the drug.

Such a test should meet the following requirements: (1) it should provide information quantitatively related to the biological potency of a biopharmaceutical, (2) it should be capable of detecting minor changes in the structure of large macromolecules, (3) it should be especially sensitive to the structural changes affecting the efficacy of a biomacromolecule, (4) it should be sensitive to the presence of impurities in the product in quantities as small as 0.1 to 0.01 wt. %, (5) it should be simple, precise, and rugged, and (6) it should be time-, labor-, and cost-effective so as not to increase the overall cost of the product. Even if only some of these requirements were met, the test would improve the possibilities for assuring the safety and efficacy of biopharmaceuticals, such as recombinant human growth hormone (rhGH).

Thats correct SGT and the Chinese know it, they even saying now when blood test come back normal that you must be a none responder haha what a joke, you just know they fill those gh vials with peptides now just to throw the blood test out.........

[ChuckEisenmench]

Even if only SOME of these requirements were met, the test would IMPROVE! the possibilities for the safety and efficacy of biopharmacuticals, such as (HGH)

You see Jintropin has the patent for the development of HGH. They have done all the quoted mumbo jumbo medical jargon to produce 191aa.

[marcus300]

Come off my anasome because having strange sides, seems very weak and I suspect they are peptides or something else.

[EasyDoesIt]

Come off my anasome because having strange sides, seems very weak and I suspect they are peptides or something else.

That's horrible man, have any ideas what might be in it? Sorry to hear that. Hopefully you can pressure them into exchanging and let them make up some bs, just to get good.

[Sgt. Hartman]

Come off my anasome because having strange sides, seems very weak and I suspect they are peptides or something else.

Does it look like and reconstitute like real gh?

[swithuk]

Yes i had the exact same problem . mine looked fine and reconstituted fine too , put the water in and just left it standing for 5 mins and was clear . if it was g.h then it was weak , could of been a peptide - definitely something not right with it - real shame

[marcus300]

Does it look like and reconstitute like real gh?

Exactly the same, cant tell the difference but they seem so weak. Ive used gh for years on and off and this last batch seem like the generics i use to get years ago. Had some odd sides this time around like watery eyes and I mean none stop but as soon as ive stopped them my eyes are fine! Also had some heavy bloating which didnt subside infact it was increasing as I went up the ius and I had a strange overall feeling something wasn't right.

Ankie have told me that blood test mean nothing because I could be a none responder to gh haha or some kind of heat as destroyed the delicate hormone. If I had to guess I would say they are selectively scamming bodybuilders or outside orders with the fakes what are going around because the fakes are identical and I mean exactly the same and its funny how the fake site selling them as changed its payment details recently.

[dec11]

Exactly the same, cant tell the difference but they seem so weak. Ive used gh for years on and off and this last batch seem like the generics i use to get years ago. Had some odd sides this time around like watery eyes and I mean none stop but as soon as ive stopped them my eyes are fine! Also had some heavy bloating which didnt subside infact it was increasing as I went up the ius and I had a strange overall feeling something wasn't right.

Ankie have told me that blood test mean nothing because I could be a none responder to gh haha or some kind of heat as destroyed the delicate hormone. If I had to guess I would say they are selectively scamming bodybuilders or outside orders with the fakes what are going around because the fakes are identical and I mean exactly the same and its funny how the fake site selling them as changed its payment details recently.

cvnts, horrible to get done over like that. i'd a colleague who 6 yrs ago was getting his Lily at heavily knocked down price direct from a medical rep he PT'd, oh how i wish that contact was still going!!!

[EasyDoesIt]

Exactly the same, cant tell the difference but they seem so weak. Ive used gh for years on and off and this last batch seem like the generics i use to get years ago. Had some odd sides this time around like watery eyes and I mean none stop but as soon as ive stopped them my eyes are fine! Also had some heavy bloating which didnt subside infact it was increasing as I went up the ius and I had a strange overall feeling something wasn't right.

Ankie have told me that blood test mean nothing because I could be a none responder to gh haha or some kind of heat as destroyed the delicate hormone. If I had to guess I would say they are selectively scamming bodybuilders or outside orders with the fakes what are going around because the fakes are identical and I mean exactly the same and its funny how the fake site selling them as changed its payment details recently.

The bloating, was the same problem I had with the fake Jintropin, the more iu's I added per day the worse it got. I think I dropped about 8lbs.of water within a week after quitting. I'm sure no doctors have diagnosed patients being prescribed Pharmaceutical grade stating to there patients "You must be a non responder". SUCH A WEAK BS ANSWER TO COME UP WITH! All these years of selling there product, all of a sudden they are coming up with claims of people being non responders. You were never a non responder before.....

[marcus300]

The bloating, was the same problem I had with the fake Jintropin, the more iu's I added per day the worse it got. I think I dropped about 8lbs.of water within a week after quitting. I'm sure no doctors have diagnosed patients being prescribed Pharmaceutical grade stating to there patients "You must be a non responder". SUCH A WEAK BS ANSWER TO COME UP WITH! All these years of selling there product, all of a sudden they are coming up with claims of people being non responders. You were never a non responder before.....

I'm 255lbs bloated as hell but the water is dropping, dont know what they put in them but its evil stuff. I'd rather it be sugar and water than dangerous chemiclas like that

[EasyDoesIt]

I'm 255lbs bloated as hell but the water is dropping, dont know what they put in them but its evil stuff. I'd rather it be sugar and water than dangerous chemiclas like that

It's odd that they would be so ignorant as to put something in it that makes you look worse fast, better to put something that does nothing. They obviously have not even come close to counterfeiting the product itself. Just ignorant on there part to make such an obvious blunder. It shows how reckless they are and total lack of regard for people in general, not to mention there brand name being destroyed!!!!!! They have a different set of rules. This will turn out to be a much bigger financial problem then they calculated. HOPEFULLY??????

[marcus300]

It's odd that they would be so ignorant as to put something in it that makes you look worse fast, better to put something that does nothing. They obviously have not even come close to counterfeiting the product itself. Just ignorant on there part to make such an obvious blunder. It shows how reckless they are and total lack of regard for people in general, not to mention there brand name being destroyed!!!!!! They have a different set of rules. This will turn out to be a much bigger financial problem then they calculated. HOPEFULLY??????

If you search around the forums and listen to the guy using generics a lot are saying they just started gh and they have put on 10lbs etc, they actually think its working because they gaining weight.They have no idea what they are taking about. I think the Chinese are clever doing this because us bodybuilders are obsess with size etc.