You'll want to read this!

[Ronnie Rowland]

Hey Ron, I'm retreading your old posts trying to get a grasp on the pct that you outlined. Since you say it's individualistic I have a question I cant find an answer to. You recommend:

Week21-24
Hcg 2500 EOD for 2 weeks
Clomid 50 mgs 2x daily for 4 weeks
Nolva 20 mgs daily for 4 weeks

You mention most people don't need the Clomid since it just makes people emotional and what not. I'm running your basic test cycle.
Week1-8 500 mgs test e
Week 9-10 250 mgs test e
Week 11-18 750 mgs test e
Weeks 19-20 250mgs test e
(saving the hcg for full pct)

I havent used an ai. No signs of gyno. So would you still recommend the Clomid? Or even just the hcg alone?
Sorry for another pct question, lol I'm just trying to follow your training system to the letter.

Stick to HCG alone.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Hi Ronnie,

what's your guideline on FEMALE on the 20 weeks slingshot program? Reload & deload still the same?? what AAS will be suitable for a 1st timer? what will be their PCT? will that be HCG still?

Start with 10 mgs of anavar for both reloads. No pct is required for females.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Did you see my post? #5168?

I think I answered it. Hows the baby coming along?

[lla23]

Thanks Ronnie... I have posted other questions for u... Just take ur time to answer..

Start with 10 mgs of anavar for both reloads. No pct is required for females.

[SEOINAGE]

Hello Ronnie. I've recently returned to this thread for a few reasons. I've been on TRT over a year, and done one 12 week blast. My training is more focused on powerlifting however. I was contemplating keeping my trt dose constant, but adding prop in for 8 weeks at a time, and upping my ai for the duration. I was kind of wondering how I could make this method work for my goals.

My training is rather interesting and is basically 4 sessions a week. 2 devoted to bench 2 to S/DL. I'll rotate through one session of bench will be say 5 rep, the next accesory, the next heavy 1-3 rep, then the next 8-12 rep. It is almost like the deload is built in, but still if i push too hard on every one of them, then eventually one is going to suffer soon after. I also change heavy movements so they tend to be only hit once a month. I'm not opposed to adding in official deloads at all.(this is overly simplifying my routine.) I also do supplemental work for back, rear delts, some arm work and shoulder work, as well as leg accessories, nothing very high volume however.

I had considered running 8 weeks of prop then 3 weeks without, all the while on trt dose. Wondering if I should change it to 8 and 2, or even 6 and 2. or maybe even 6 and 1, or 5 and 1.
Typical powerlifting deloads are 1 week out of 6, and consist of a week of higher reps and much less weight. But they also are hitting it hard and heavy every week. I like to think i do the same with my 5 rep days. But not sure where to go with this change.

After I get set up with prop, probably make my own, I want to start this up and see if I can do it continually for very long periods. Of course health is a concern, I donate blood regularly just on trt to make sure. s/b/dl is 567/405/485 raw, and my goals are well above 600 on s/dl and get close to 500 lb bench.

Last curve ball to throw into the mix, I've been working on reducing bodyfat as well while keeping my strength. I've been doing ok so far I think, down over 20 lbs and lifts are roughly equivalent, although I haven't squatted that much in a while. But in order to get to a lean healthy percentage I need to lose 25 lbs. And I think the prop would allow me to reduce overall calories more while preserving strength and muscle, and speed things up.

I intend to compete next month, and then hopefully nationals in november, so I don't want to go full bore into fat loss.

Hopefully this isn't too scattered, and take your time if you are able to get back to me, I realize it will be a long while before I even have prop, and I understand this is a long term commitment anyways. I've been lifting 13 years not counting the stuff I did growing up and in high school. Some bits of time off and some ups and downs but training for strength for 4 and a half years almost absolutely solid.

More info than you need but if you even have simple suggestions to get the most out of what I am doing I would greatly appreciate it, understand you are doing a lot for others. thanks.

[The Titan99]

I think I answered it. Hows the baby coming along?

It's due on August 8th. I still haven't come up with a name yet!! My main worry is that there are no facilities on this island for having the baby here. She will have to go over to the mainland and wait. I booked a hotel next to the hospital for July 27th onward. I hope I didn't misjudge the timing or she might be having it in the bathtub!! I think 9-10 days will be enough but it's so big right now....

[lla23]

Bro... Maybe u might wanna move earlier just in case, becos once u r panic, u can't think right.. I mean just to be VERY safe about it..

It's due on August 8th. I still haven't come up with a name yet!! My main worry is that there are no facilities on this island for having the baby here. She will have to go over to the mainland and wait. I booked a hotel next to the hospital for July 27th onward. I hope I didn't misjudge the timing or she might be having it in the bathtub!! I think 9-10 days will be enough but it's so big right now....

[The Titan99]

I know. I'm thinking about it everyday.

[slimshady01]

It's due on August 8th. I still haven't come up with a name yet!! My main worry is that there are no facilities on this island for having the baby here. She will have to go over to the mainland and wait. I booked a hotel next to the hospital for July 27th onward. I hope I didn't misjudge the timing or she might be having it in the bathtub!! I think 9-10 days will be enough but it's so big right now....

Wow that's a tough situation!

[The Titan99]

Wow that's a tough situation!

It's her 2nd baby and the Dr. said it should come pretty much on the due date. Still, worrying though...

[Lunk1]

It's her 2nd baby and the Dr. said it should come pretty much on the due date. Still, worrying though...

Congrats buddy. Just grab some towels, hot water, a clamp and scissors and catch it yourself lol.

[slimshady01]

It's her 2nd baby and the Dr. said it should come pretty much on the due date. Still, worrying though...

Best of luck to you 2!!

[kml999]

Hey Ron,
i was on a 20wk cycle (STS) and wanted to share with you what happened to me when i was taking 750mg test e, 200mg tren e and 300mg Mast e. i was even taking 250IU HCG 2x/wk and NO AI as you advised. I did this as my last relaod before i deload at the end of the cycle and after 3-4wks of the above dosages i got an eye infection, UTI (urine traction infection) and high blood pressure (155/90). my blood pressure is good now and have no infections right now. i did blood work when the issue happened and its abvious the blood pressure increase was from the increase of estrogen:

1- estrodial 185 (11-44)
2- progesterone 0.3 (0.1-0.2)
3- Prolactin <0.06

i had to stop all injs and use the meds given to fight the two infections that i was suffering from, wait for 21 days after my last jab and started my pct which i am still on right now. I'm on my 7th wk of PCT. My PCT consists of 40/40/20/20/20/20 Nolvadex and 100/100/100/50/50/50 Clomid. I'm on my 7th wk of PCT right now.

After 4 wks of PCT did blood work and here are the results:
1- Estradiol= 34 (11-44)
2- LH= 0.04 (0.57- 12)
3- FSH= 2.8 (0.95-11.95)
5- Progesterone= 0.2 (<0.1-0.2)
6- Prolactin= <0.6 (3.46-19.4)
7- total testosterone = >15 (3-11) <---- test is above range!


questions:
1- what can i do to speed recovery? now i just completed 7/8 wks of PCT and my Testes are still very very small just like when i was on cycle. FYI i did take 250IU 2x/wk during cycle and was debating if i should do 250IU 3x/wk when noticed my teste keep shrinking as days pass by. what would you recommend to speed the recovery ? or just complete my current pct and see what happens?
2- if you noticed my progesterone/estrogen went up and i have noticed from the above results that when i took masterone my progesterone and estro didnt stay in check. does this sound correct to you? and another thing i thought DHT should maintain both progesterone and estradial in check, but in my case it let both progesterone and estradiol go through the roof without even resisting them....please comment
3- does it look my body is recovering? everything looks acceptable except my LH values! my FSH is picking up as i can see, but my LH is almost nil. i was injecting 1000iu of HCG/day starting from 3rd wk of pct (did this since i noticed my testes were very still small) and was expecting the teste size return to their original size. Now hcg stimulates in LH production, but after 10days of 1000iu of hcg and 25iu of HMG for 5 days my testes were still small? how to fix this?
4- is the low LH value because i was injecting HCG/HMG? i used both on 3rd and 4th wk of pct
5- would you recommend any adjustments in my PCT? I have everything in hand

any further comments would be helpful too

[BigSwol]

Ronnie what's ur thoughts on sust, eq,var?
I was thinking
Weeks 1-8 sust 600 mg, eq 500mg, var 50mg Ed
Weeks 9&10 sust 300mg
Weeks 11-18 sust 750, eq 650, mast 300 ew
Weeks 19-20 sust 450
Then pct...prob nolva and hcg

Thanks and interesting stuff!

[kelevra]

Hey Ronnie,
I typically stick to your style carb cycling diet with good results, but did want your thoughts on carb backloading?
Thanx

[kelevra]

Back workout?
Do you ever recommend separating width and thickness to dif days?
If so, 3 best movements for each??

[Crazy Chris]

Back workout?
Do you ever recommend separating width and thickness to dif days?
If so, 3 best movements for each??

I'm sure Ronnie will have some great input on this one. But I thought I'd share my own back routine with you

I work out twice each day. On back day I do width in the morning and thickness in the evening.

Width:
1. Lat pull down, 6 sets
2. Narrow pull down w palms facing eo, 6 sets

Thickness:
1. Seated row medium/narrow grip, 6 sets
2. Diagonal row/pull w rope, 6 sets

So that's a total of 24 sets for back each week.
I could never do 24 sets in one session, but with this routine I have time to recover between the two sessions and I can do more volume.
I really like the idea of focus on two excercises each session and increase the amount of work sets to a maximum of 6. This has worked incredibly well for me. And I personally think separating width and thickness to different days is great.

[TJ413]

Aren't u suppose to take off a break for as long as u ran ur cycle??

[Ronnie Rowland]

Aren't u suppose to take off a break for as long as u ran ur cycle??

Not if you are a competitor or trying to get as big as humanly possible.

[Ronnie Rowland]

I'm sure Ronnie will have some great input on this one. But I thought I'd share my own back routine with you

I work out twice each day. On back day I do width in the morning and thickness in the evening.

Width:
1. Lat pull down, 6 sets
2. Narrow pull down w palms facing eo, 6 sets

Thickness:
1. Seated row medium/narrow grip, 6 sets
2. Diagonal row/pull w rope, 6 sets

So that's a total of 24 sets for back each week.
I could never do 24 sets in one session, but with this routine I have time to recover between the two sessions and I can do more volume.
I really like the idea of focus on two excercises each session and increase the amount of work sets to a maximum of 6. This has worked incredibly well for me. And I personally think separating width and thickness to different days is great.

Yes this works great. Separating quads and hams also works equally as well for some!

[Ronnie Rowland]

Back workout?
Do you ever recommend separating width and thickness to dif days?
If so, 3 best movements for each??

Width:
dual cable pulldowns palms facing forward
Pullups with medium grip
Pullover machine like Dorian Yates used

Thickness:
Rows on life fitness macine using side grip and seat set deep so angle of pull is at upper abs to lower chest area
Seated cable rows- close grip
One arm dumbell rows

[Ronnie Rowland]

Hey Ronnie,
I typically stick to your style carb cycling diet with good results, but did want your thoughts on carb backloading?
Thanx

It works as well.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Ronnie what's ur thoughts on sust, eq,var?
I was thinking
Weeks 1-8 sust 600 mg, eq 500mg, var 50mg Ed
Weeks 9&10 sust 300mg
Weeks 11-18 sust 750, eq 650, mast 300 ew
Weeks 19-20 sust 450
Then pct...prob nolva and hcg

Thanks and interesting stuff!

looks good but I would run masteron both reloads and use var during second reload because of its unmatched ability to enhance ATP/CP systems. You may want to run var for both reloads!

[Ronnie Rowland]

Hey Ron,
i was on a 20wk cycle (STS) and wanted to share with you what happened to me when i was taking 750mg test e, 200mg tren e and 300mg Mast e. i was even taking 250IU HCG 2x/wk and NO AI as you advised. I did this as my last relaod before i deload at the end of the cycle and after 3-4wks of the above dosages i got an eye infection, UTI (urine traction infection) and high blood pressure (155/90). my blood pressure is good now and have no infections right now. i did blood work when the issue happened and its abvious the blood pressure increase was from the increase of estrogen:

1- estrodial 185 (11-44)
2- progesterone 0.3 (0.1-0.2)
3- Prolactin <0.06

i had to stop all injs and use the meds given to fight the two infections that i was suffering from, wait for 21 days after my last jab and started my pct which i am still on right now. I'm on my 7th wk of PCT. My PCT consists of 40/40/20/20/20/20 Nolvadex and 100/100/100/50/50/50 Clomid. I'm on my 7th wk of PCT right now.

After 4 wks of PCT did blood work and here are the results:
1- Estradiol= 34 (11-44)
2- LH= 0.04 (0.57- 12)
3- FSH= 2.8 (0.95-11.95)
5- Progesterone= 0.2 (<0.1-0.2)
6- Prolactin= <0.6 (3.46-19.4)
7- total testosterone = >15 (3-11) <---- test is above range!


questions:
1- what can i do to speed recovery? now i just completed 7/8 wks of PCT and my Testes are still very very small just like when i was on cycle. FYI i did take 250IU 2x/wk during cycle and was debating if i should do 250IU 3x/wk when noticed my teste keep shrinking as days pass by. what would you recommend to speed the recovery ? or just complete my current pct and see what happens?
2- if you noticed my progesterone/estrogen went up and i have noticed from the above results that when i took masterone my progesterone and estro didnt stay in check. does this sound correct to you? and another thing i thought DHT should maintain both progesterone and estradial in check, but in my case it let both progesterone and estradiol go through the roof without even resisting them....please comment
3- does it look my body is recovering? everything looks acceptable except my LH values! my FSH is picking up as i can see, but my LH is almost nil. i was injecting 1000iu of HCG/day starting from 3rd wk of pct (did this since i noticed my testes were very still small) and was expecting the teste size return to their original size. Now hcg stimulates in LH production, but after 10days of 1000iu of hcg and 25iu of HMG for 5 days my testes were still small? how to fix this?
4- is the low LH value because i was injecting HCG/HMG? i used both on 3rd and 4th wk of pct
5- would you recommend any adjustments in my PCT? I have everything in hand

any further comments would be helpful too

1)You needed to Pct with hcg at 2500 eod for 2-3 weeks post cycle not clomid and nolvadex only. 2)dht or Masterone is not going to help with estrogen and especially progesterone. You are stuck with the progesterone increases from the tren. I would use aromasin or arimidex since you are so estrogen sensitive. Nolvadex combine with mast is another option to consider. 3)either or hcg if counterfeit or you are one of these people who will take a long time to recover. Did your balls slowly or abruptly shrink during your cycle when hcg was being administered 2xwk?4)no. 5) run hcg 2500 eod for 3 weeks. First concern is its quality!

[Ronnie Rowland]

Keeping doses reasonable and not overdoing multiple compounds what is the longest any of you have stayed on this program with only 2 week or months 'breaks'?

Honesty, I know of people who have been doing this for over 20 years. But,keep in mind they don't keep increasing dosages after each subsequent reload and they place primary emphasis on injectables, especially testosterone .

[Ronnie Rowland]

I'm a little confused about one thing. I'm about to finish my second reload and going to do a deload after. Then I'm taking a break from AAS. Do I do a low dose of test during this second deload and then do PCT? It looks like I'm supposed to do PCT immediately after this reload and no test during this deload, but after reading this through this thread I've found some conflicting language. Just trying to clarify. Thanks in advance.

Techinically you could use either method but w
I have found that guys experience less post cycle crash tapering down to near TRT levels for a 2 week deload then PCT with hcg ,etc for 3 weeks or so.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Thanks so much for your reply! Ill be switching my workouts around to combine checst and bi's into 1 day, and back and tri's into another like you suggested. My only other questions would be, that being this is my first cycle, you still believe that 8 week on, 2 weeks off is the right cycle for me? I am taking Test Enth and still trying to figure out exactly what I should be taking for PCT. Were you saying that if I take HCG threwout my cycle that I can skip taking anything else for PCT? Also, if I chose to do a full PCT instead of HCG the entire cycle, will I be able to fit a full PCT into only 2 weeks, and exactly what would you recommend taking for it?

EDIT: Ronnie id also like to add that I realize that you are a trainer, meaning you usually make money helping guys get big. This being said if you contact me via PM, I have no problem giving you a little cash for your time helping me out. I appreciate your help and realize you are busy.

If you pct during cycle continue post cycle therapy for an additional 2 weeks using a higher dosages eod 1500 is a good number. If you do not pct during cycle then use an even higher dosage for 3 weeks- like 2500 eod.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Hi Ronnie when you get a chance can you look at #5234.

Also in addition to #5234 if I was to run 500iu per week of hcg during the cycle instead of 2500iu eod at the end what would be the difference?

Thanks.

Not That much difference at all given your cycle was only 20 weeks in length.

[TJ413]

Hey Ron, how does this look for a 5 day split doing the slingshot training.

Mon. Chest
Tues. Back
Wed. Off
Thurs. Shoulders , traps
Fri. Bis, tris, forearms
Sat. Legs
Sun. Off

I do 12 intense sets for each muscle group

[lynxeffect1]

i was told proviron combined with nolva almost works as good as an ai ? yet safer and can be ran for months on end . if you sensitive to putn on lots of water weight how do u go about staying on an ai year round? cycle between arimidex and aromasin , den maybe nolva proviron ? i know u mentioned use less test and more anabolics, but if u really wanted test there and has estro issues ?
also ron for someone whos only using aas and not insulin , is white basmati rice fine for offseason compared to wholegrain brown rice? i thought id bloat more since basmati is fast releasing but someone told me that white is better for offseason because and wont bloat you where as brown would in the offseason and shud be used when dieting?

[The Titan99]

Techinically you could use either method but w
I have found that guys experience less post cycle crash tapering down to near TRT levels for a 2 week deload then PCT with hcg,etc for 3 weeks or so.

See! I thought I had a PHD in STS, but you learn something new everyday. I always advise people asking me about STS reload 8 weeks, deload 2 weeks, followed by nothing for 2 weeks (if your using test e) the day 15 PCT starts. I thought the 2nd deload was if you planned to continue reloading with AAS (like I do). I would think after the cycle you'd want to go straight for hpta start up asap. I've no experience there though. Lol!! The silver lining to trt!!!

[The Titan99]

Hey Ron, how does this look for a 5 day split doing the slingshot training.

Mon. Chest
Tues. Back
Wed. Off
Thurs. Shoulders , traps
Fri. Bis, tris, forearms
Sat. Legs
Sun. Off

I do 12 intense sets for each muscle group

I'd switch arm day and leg day around. Give your arms a rest day after shoulder. Just mho. Of course there's a lot to be said for a good day or two off after leg day. I'm interested to see what Ron says.

[lla23]

1234

[lla23]

Hey Ronnie, what's ur take on this? I have problems getting HCG as it's expensive and Titan99 was suggesting this..

Thanks Titan99 for advising me bro.. So do u mean my cycle will be like this?

How about my PCT, what should I use? Novaldex or clomid?

I will be starting 2nd cycle with Test E again when I'm done with this protocol.

Phase 1-
500 mgs of test weekly,
1st 8 weeks reload (250 mgs injection twice a week)
HCG (250 i.u.'s injection twice a week)

Deload -
250 mgs of test weekly,
2 weeks (125 mgs injection twice a week)
HCG (250 i.u.'s injection twice a week)

Phase 2 -
750 mgs of test weekly
2nd 8 weeks reload (375 mgs injection twice a week)
HCG (250 i.u.'s injection twice a week)

PCT -
Novaldex or clomid?

[lla23]

And this too...

Yea, that's how I would do it and how I think Ron would tell you to do it also except you run the HCG for the 2 weeks after your last shot of test, then on day 15 (following last shot) start PCT. I don't like clomid and Ron doesn't think it's necessary. Torem is what I would use with the Nolvadex for 3 weeks on both, but I'm on HRT so I don't do PCT personally. Ron's a lot more knowledgeable on that front. On all fronts really, but there for sure. One thing I would do differently though and hopefully Ron corrects me if I'm wrong, but after phase 2 of the blast I would carry on through with the same diet as I was on cycle all the way through PCT to avoid muscle loss, while at the same time deloading and reloading as usual with your training.
BTW, a good dose of Vitamin C daily throughout PCT should help control cortisol levels.

[>Good Luck<]

Hey ron, what do you think:

Week 1-8 test e 350mg tren e 200mg
Week 9-10 test e 200mg

Week 11-18 test 350mg tren e 200mg tbol 75mg per day
Week 19-20 test e 200mg

nolv 20mg daily 4 weeks hcg 2500iu eod for 3 weeks starting 1 week after last pin

[Ronnie Rowland]

Hello Ronnie. I've recently returned to this thread for a few reasons. I've been on TRT over a year, and done one 12 week blast. My training is more focused on powerlifting however. I was contemplating keeping my trt dose constant, but adding prop in for 8 weeks at a time, and upping my ai for the duration. I was kind of wondering how I could make this method work for my goals.

My training is rather interesting and is basically 4 sessions a week. 2 devoted to bench 2 to S/DL. I'll rotate through one session of bench will be say 5 rep, the next accesory, the next heavy 1-3 rep, then the next 8-12 rep. It is almost like the deload is built in, but still if i push too hard on every one of them, then eventually one is going to suffer soon after. I also change heavy movements so they tend to be only hit once a month. I'm not opposed to adding in official deloads at all.(this is overly simplifying my routine.) I also do supplemental work for back, rear delts, some arm work and shoulder work, as well as leg accessories, nothing very high volume however.

I had considered running 8 weeks of prop then 3 weeks without, all the while on trt dose. Wondering if I should change it to 8 and 2, or even 6 and 2. or maybe even 6 and 1, or 5 and 1.
Typical powerlifting deloads are 1 week out of 6, and consist of a week of higher reps and much less weight. But they also are hitting it hard and heavy every week. I like to think i do the same with my 5 rep days. But not sure where to go with this change.
It all depends on the routine. If you are hitting the same muscle twice a week for powerlifting do low reps early in the week and higher reps later in the week
After I get set up with prop, probably make my own, I want to start this up and see if I can do it continually for very long periods. Of course health is a concern, I donate blood regularly just on trt to make sure. s/b/dl is 567/405/485 raw, and my goals are well above 600 on s/dl and get close to 500 lb bench.

Last curve ball to throw into the mix, I've been working on reducing bodyfat as well while keeping my strength. I've been doing ok so far I think, down over 20 lbs and lifts are roughly equivalent, although I haven't squatted that much in a while. But in order to get to a lean healthy percentage I need to lose 25 lbs. And I think the prop would allow me to reduce overall calories more while preserving strength and muscle, and speed things up.

I intend to compete next month, and then hopefully nationals in november, so I don't want to go full bore into fat loss.

Hopefully this isn't too scattered, and take your time if you are able to get back to me, I realize it will be a long while before I even have prop, and I understand this is a long term commitment anyways. I've been lifting 13 years not counting the stuff I did growing up and in high school. Some bits of time off and some ups and downs but training for strength for 4 and a half years almost absolutely solid.

More info than you need but if you even have simple suggestions to get the most out of what I am doing I would greatly appreciate it, understand you are doing a lot for others. thanks.

I would use 5 reps for 4 weeks. Then progress to 1-3 reps for 4 weeks then use 10-15 reps for a 2 week deload. Run prop during reloads and run TRT during deloads. Always keep ancillary work between 8-15 reps.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Hey Ron, how does this look for a 5 day split doing the slingshot training.

Mon. Chest
Tues. Back
Wed. Off
Thurs. Shoulders , traps
Fri. Bis, tris, forearms
Sat. Legs
Sun. Off

I do 12 intense sets for each muscle group

It's my favorite 5 day training split!

[montana3]

Great post, for a beginner it was exactly what I was looking for thank you!
Question:
I’ve been on testosterone therapy for sometime and though it’s made me feel great my gains in the gym have slowed considerably. (slowed) For this reason, I wanted to incorporate tren along with my test C for eight weeks to help me add more size.
However, I’m not real sure how much trenbolone , (or if tren is good) to take and can I sill use HCG during the cycle.
Any info you can give would be greatly appreciated.
Mike

[LookinToGrow]

Techinically you could use either method but w
I have found that guys experience less post cycle crash tapering down to near TRT levels for a 2 week deload then PCT with hcg,etc for 3 weeks or so.

Thanks for answering my question Ronnie. You're awesome!