ANAVAR Cycle (for those interested)

**WARMachine** · 10-07-2009, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by BJJ

Has anyone ever had a direct experience to validate or invalidate some of the above written statements?

Anavar PCT
Starting Anavar Only Cycle at 40mgs?

Read some my discussion in this thread for an idea as to WHY it is a good idea to have a PCT when running an Anavar only cycle.

-WAR

**ythrashin** · 10-07-2009, 08:10 PM

All these bridging threads are getting to be a joke. There is no such thing as a bridge, with any AAS, which will be both effective at maintaining AAS induced muscle growth and simultaneously allow full HPTA recovery.

See the following studies with Anavar at 2.5mg/day and it's effect on HPTA.

MaxRep

__________________________________________________ ________________

1: Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1993 Apr;38(4):393-8.

The effects of oxandrolone on the growth hormone and gonadal axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty.

Malhotra A, Poon E, Tse WY, Pringle PJ, Hindmarsh PC, Brook CG.

Endocrine Unit, Middlesex Hospital, London, UK.

OBJECTIVE: We studied the effects of oxandrolone on serum concentrations of LH, FSH, testosterone , GH, SHBG, DHEAS, IGF-I and insulin in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty.
DESIGN: Ten boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty, mean age 13.8 years (range 12.4-15.5) were studied. Twenty-four-hour serum concentration profiles of GH, LH and FSH were constructed by drawing blood samples at 20-minute intervals. Three study occasions over a period of 6 months were chosen to assess hormone concentrations before, during and 6 weeks after a 3-month course of oxandrolone (2.5 mg once daily) therapy.
RESULTS: Growth velocity increased during oxandrolone treatment and stayed higher after therapy (pre 3.9 +/- 0.5; on 6.3 +/- 0.8; post 6.4 +/- 0.9 cm/year (mean +/- SEM) two way ANOVA, F = 5.3, P = 0.02). Oxandrolone had androgenic effects, suppressing mean serum LH concentrations from 1.7 +/- 0.3 to 1.1 +/- 0.2 U/I and serum testosterone concentrations from 1.9 +/- 0.6 to 0.8 +/- 0.1 nmol/l. SHBG concentrations were also reduced from 130.9 +/- 14.6 to 30.7 +/- 7.3 nmol/l. Serum GH concentration fell slightly from 5.9 +/- 0.6 to 4.8 +/- 0.5 mU/l. After cessation of treatment, there was a significant 'rebound' in mean 24-hour serum LH (2.6 U/l +/- 0.4) and testosterone concentrations (3.2 +/- 0.9 nmol/l) but no change in serum GH concentrations. SHBG values also rose but not to the same extent as those observed before therapy (82.0 +/- 8.4 nmol/l). There were no statistically significant differences in serum concentrations of FSH, DHEAS, IGF-I and insulin over the study period. In a stepwise multiple regression analysis of factors that might influence the growth rate observed, the 24-hour mean serum testosterone concentration and the treatment (on or off) with oxandrolone were the main influences. The relationship was described by the equation Height velocity = 0.69 (24-hour mean serum testosterone concentration)+1.70 (treatment regimen)+3.37 (adjusted R2 = 0.35, F = 8.39, P = 0.001).
CONCLUSIONS: Oxandrolone has an androgenic action as shown by changes in serum LH, testosterone and SHBG concentrations and by the lack of effect on FSH. No effect of oxandrolone on the GH axis was documented. We suggest that the growth promoting effects of oxandrolone are related in part to the mild androgenic effects of the steroid and the growth acceleration following oxandrolone withdrawal may reflect increasing total serum testosterone concentrations and decreasing levels of SHBG and progress in puberty.

PMID: 8319371 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

1: Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1997 Feb;46(2):209-16.

Effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone treatment on the pituitary-testicular and GH axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty.

Crowne EC, Wallace WH, Moore C, Mitchell R, Robertson WH, Holly JM, Shalet SM.

Department of Endocrinology, Christie Hospital Trust, Manchester, UK.

OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone on the pituitary-testicular and GH-IGF-I axes. DESIGN: Prospective double-blind placebo-controlled trial.
PATIENTS: Sixteen boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty (CDGP) with testicular volumes 4-6 ml were randomized to 3 months treatment: Group 1 (n = 5), daily placebo: Group 2 (n = 5), 2.5 mg oxandrolone daily or Group 3 (n = 6), 50 mg testosterone monthly intramuscular injections with assessment (growth, pubertal development and overnight hormone profiles) at 0, 3, 6 and 12 months.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: LH and GH profiles (15-minute samples) were analysed by peak detection (Pulsar), Fourier transformation and autocorrelation. Testosterone levels were measured hourly and insulin, SHBG, IGF-I, and IGFBP-3 levels at 0800 h. Statistical analysis was by multivariate analysis of variance for repeated measures.
RESULTS: LH and testosterone parameters increased significantly with time in all 16 (LH AUC, P < 0.001; peak amplitude, P = 0.02; number of peaks, P = 0.02; testosterone AUC, P = 0.02; morning testosterone, P = 0.002). In Group 2, however, LH and testosterone parameters decreased at 3 months followed by a rebound increase at 6 and 12 months. SHBG levels were markedly reduced at 3 months (P = 0.006) and a wider range of dominant GH frequencies was present although GH AUC was not increased until 6 months, with an increase in GH pulse frequency but not amplitude. IGF-I levels were increased at both 3 and 12 months. In Group 3, pituitary-testicular suppression was not apparent, but GH levels increased with an increase in GH amplitude at 3 and 12 months. CONCLUSION: Oxandrolone transiently suppressed the pituitary-testicular axis and altered GH pulsatility. Testosterone increased GH via amplitude modulation.

**ythrashin** · 10-07-2009, 08:15 PM

I think the LH rebound effect is also a MYTH. Perhaps at very low dosages under 5mg... But haven't found any concrete evidence...

Anyone??

**spooledup** · 10-07-2009, 10:34 PM

Those studies have been posted/debated and are done on boys with dysfunctional endocrine systems. We need tests on adult males with healthy endocrine systems.

Secondly, a dose of 2.5mg ox ED and 50mg test monthly are nowhere near an equal comparison. There is no way they can get stable blood levels of test by injecting 50mg once a month, the test will be clear of their system for a very large part of the month.

Nevertheless, in the first test the study concludes oxandrolone only suppressed LH by less than 40% of the normal range. Testosterone is suppressed a bit more but not near castration levels as applying a stable regimen of exogenous testosterone would do. But we'll never know because the dumbass research conductors didn't know how to use the test.

**BJJ** · 10-08-2009, 03:52 AM

Originally Posted by spooledup

Those studies have been posted/debated and are done on boys with dysfunctional endocrine systems. We need tests on adult males with healthy endocrine systems.

I shall be a "human guinea pig" then...

**BJJ** · 10-08-2009, 04:07 AM

Originally Posted by WARMachine

Anavar PCT
Starting Anavar Only Cycle at 40mgs?

Read some my discussion in this thread for an idea as to WHY it is a good idea to have a PCT when running an Anavar only cycle.

-WAR

Thank you, very interesting.
Just hoping to get to the right PCT for my genetics.

**BJJ** · 10-08-2009, 04:15 AM

Regarding blood analyses in progress, I am going saturday morning after 17 days to check:

CHOLESTEROL TTL
CHOLESTEROL HDL & LDL
BILIRUBIN (TTL & DIVIDED)
CREATININE
AZOTEMIA
AMYLASE
TRANSAMINASE ALT/GPT
GAMMA GT

TESTOSTERONE
TESTOSTERONE FREE
SHBG
LH
FSH
INSULIN (basal)
IGF-1
HGH
DHEAS

URINE TEST

Forgetting anything?

**BJJ** · 10-08-2009, 05:01 AM

The Oxandrolone steroid appeared in USA in 1964, under “Anavar ” denomination and produced by “Serl” company. It’s a delicate steroid with a weak androgen component. It had been observed that if this steroid is used in reasonable doses, it hasn’t any side effect, because it was initially produced for women and children. Is one of the few steroids which doesn’t provoke the premature retardation of kid's body development because it doesn’t close the epiphysis conjunctions. Accordingly, the Oxandrolone steroid is used in medicine for children to stimulate their growing and for women to treat the osteoporosis.

The Oxandrolone steroid provokes very weak masculinity symptoms. This quality makes it very effective for women, because for 10-15 mg a day dose can’t be observed masculinity effects.

The bodybuilders and powerlifters prefer the Oxandralone steroid. It helps to consolidate their force in a speedy way because it provokes the creatinphosphat’s syntesis in muscular cells and it doesn’t accumulates liquids. The weightlifters who don’t want to be included in a high category use this concoction because it increase their force without increasing their weight in the same time.

The daily combination of Oxandrolone and 10-12 mg of Halotestin had been proven to be very effective because its utilization gives musculature a more inflexible aspect.

The daily combination of Oxandrolone and 120-140 mg of Clenbuterol helps to obtain good results too. The Oxandrolone doesn’t increase the musculature, but it increase the other steroids effects on the organism. The concoction is combined with Deca -Durabolin , with Dynabolon and with others Testosterone ’s derived which accumulate liquids and assure the considerable musculature increase . A daily combination of 200 mg of Deca-Durabolin, 500 mg of Testosterone Enanthate and 25 mg of Oxandrolon helps most athletes to increase their weight and their force. The Deca-Durabolin has an anabolic effect more pronounced and stimulates the proteins synthesis, the Oxandrolon increases the force and the Testosterone makes sportsmen more aggressive during the trainings and increases the regeneration speed.

Another reason of which the Oxandrolone is used, is that the steroid doesn’t aromatize no matter how big is the dose. As we mentioned earlier, a big part of blood testosterone is transformed in estrogens. After Oxandrolon’s utilization, the musculature will not have an aqueous aspect; that’s why the concoction is supposed to be very effective for trainings before competitions. During those trainings, it’s very important to maintain the estrogens to a low level because the estrogens provoke the liquid accumulation in the organism even if the athlete have a less calories diet. In combination with the diet, the Oxandrolone helps to obtain a strong and elastic musculature. Although the concoction doesn’t help to fats burning, it has a complementary role because it diminishing the appetite.

The Oxandrolone can provoke heavy stomach sensation and nausea sensations if the pills are used during the meals.
Pursuant to Italian prospect, the steroid has a big influence on digestive tract (some sportsmen have regular diarrhea).
The concoction helps sporters to burn the fats and gives body slenderness.
Those who trains for competitions or those who are very interested of musculature quality should combine the Oxandrolon with steroids such as Winstrol , Parabolan , Masteron , Primobolan or Testosterone Propionate .
The combination of 50 mg a day, 50 mg of Testosterone Propionate at every two days and 25 mg of Oxandrolone a day it’s very effective combination.

Side effects of Oxandrolone:

It had been demonstrated that sportsmen who have an increased arterial tension caused by androgen steroids or those who have ginaecomasty will not have any problem with Oxandrolone because it doesn’t aromatize. The combination of Oxandrolone with Deca-Durabolin is for some athletes the best choice in case they face problems because of others steroids utilization (Testosterones, Dianabol , Anapolon 50). The Oxandrolone is also recommended because it is a chemical substance which doesn’t influence the production of specific hormones in organism. During the Oxandrolon’s utilization, the testicles don’t signalize the diminution or the interruption of hormones production. This specific quality of Oxandrolon steroid is possible because the active chemical substance isn’t aromatized in estrogens.

Doctor Mauro de Pascuale says: “ ..it is supposed that the estrogens which appear because of the testosterone aromatization and because of other anabolic steroids diminish the luteinesation hormone’s secretion from brain and hypothalamus and the testosterone generation too” (“The side effects of anabolic steroids – facts, fictions and treatment”) . The american doctor Robert Kerr confirms this in “ The practical anabolic steroids utilization ”: “If a healthy man uses Oxandrolone (Anavar) in augmented doses, he will not diminish the spermatozoon quantity and the sperm quantity will not be transformed into estrogens.” . That’s why the Oxandrolone is very well combined even with 240 mg a day of Andriol , isn’t aromatized and the hormones secretion in the organism isn’t affected. The daily utilization of 280 mg Andriol with 25 mg Oxandrolone can increase the force and for the beginners can increase the musculature without a significant water accumulation .

When it comes from Oxandrolone, good results are obtained through utilization of 8-12 pills for men and 5-6 pills for women. It has been practically confirmed that the utilization rule is 0.25 mg ofsteroid/1 kg from athlete’s weight. Usually, the pills are used 2-3 times a day after the meal and this way the active chemical substance from the steroid is totally absorbed. Those who have digestive tract problems should take the pastilles 1 or 2 hours after the meal or they should give up on taking them. Lots of athletes use Oxandrolone for a long time because isn’t very toxic and it hasn’t side effects. But it shouldn’t be used for a long time without a pause because as well as the others oral steroids is a 17-alfa alchylate and it has influences on the liver.

The Oxandrolone is a spread steroid and it is often used by women . Women who are sensitive to anabolic steroids can obtain good results if they combine it with Primobolan or/and with Clenbuterol; this way the masculinity side effects can’t appear. However, women shouldn’t use this concoction in doses bigger than 6 pills a day, otherwise side effects such as acne, voice thickening, clitoris hypertrophy or hairiness could appear.

The main disadvantage of this concoction is the big price. The Italian Oxandrolone, supplied on the Russian market (30 pills of 2.5 mg) has a medium price of 25-30$ . There is a possibility for Oxandrolon to become more accessible , because a chinesse firm (“Hubei Huangsi Pharmaceuticals”) produce its own Oxandrolone in pills of 5 mg which will have a calculated price of 40$/blister (30 pastilles). The “B.M Pharmaceuticals” Indian firm started the production of injectable Oxandrolone – the Oxandrolonject product of 10 mg/phial.

Oxandrolone, the commercial denomination:
Anavar/out of market/ 2,5mg/lozenge
Anatrophill/ out of market / 2,5mg/ lozenge
Lipidex 2,5mg/ lozenge
Lonavar/ out of market / 2,5mg/ lozenge
Oxandrolone SPA 2,5mg/ lozenge

**BJJ** · 10-08-2009, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by MYWHEY

Impressive physique mate, subbed for final results

thank you

**elpropiotorvic** · 10-08-2009, 09:50 AM

I have exp de lh rebound

**BJJ** · 10-08-2009, 09:56 AM

what happened then? how long did it last?

**elpropiotorvic** · 10-08-2009, 10:08 AM

Mmm don't remember exactly man ... New baby brother and three girls atthe time ...but I know I had been away from the gym for about 1 month and something because injured my ankle ... ... Came back just like that squatting 225 for 12 reps ... I had been away from gym and bad diet so it was more like 7 weeks just lying at home and sitting at the desk ... And i was able to respond to all three girls perfectly...I was very very horny...and also a lot more aggressive in the lifts ...I was having sex probably about 9 to 10 times per week all the times I wanted it like it was the first time I saw porn ....

**BJJ** · 10-08-2009, 10:21 AM

Wow... not bad.

**ythrashin** · 10-08-2009, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by elpropiotorvic

I have exp de lh rebound

Pure speculation without blood work.....

**BJJ** · 10-08-2009, 10:26 AM

Updated stats on day 16:

Body Weight: 94,5 kg (207,9 lbs) +8,62%
Body Fat: 14% +8,52%
Body Water: 63,6% +0,63%
Estimated Muscle Mass: 77,3 kg (170,6 lbs) +5,17%

(given data by Tanita BC-418)

Getting bigger I would say but the fat too!
I suppose I have to modify my diet.

(current-previous)/previous*100 = + increase% or - decrease%

**thai-lan** · 10-08-2009, 10:43 AM

so you put on 15pounds and bodyfat aswell ??

do you think that electronic scale is right? i think , caliper is the best way to measure the bodyfat

**ythrashin** · 10-08-2009, 11:02 AM

I agree those electronic bf% checkers are not accurate.

**ythrashin** · 10-08-2009, 11:03 AM

Holy shit that Tanita BC-418 scale costs over 5,000 dollars... It better be accurate!!!

**WARMachine** · 10-08-2009, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by BJJ

Regarding blood analyses in progress, I am going saturday morning after 17 days to check:

CHOLESTEROL TTL
CHOLESTEROL HDL & LDL
BILIRUBIN (TTL & DIVIDED)
CREATININE
AZOTEMIA
AMYLASE
TRANSAMINASE ALT/GPT
GAMMA GT

TESTOSTERONE
SHBG
LH
FSH
INSULIN (basal)
IGF-1
HGH
DHEAS

URINE TEST

Forgetting anything?

Free test. Always.

**elpropiotorvic** · 10-08-2009, 12:27 PM

I don't know what it was ... Like u said if there is no blood work to prove it it could be too many things but one thing is for sure ... I thought that maybe the var I took had some other compoundthat hit after 10 weeks or something(as stupid as it sound the change wAs that big that I thought I had juice running on my bloodstream) but man ... I felt a difference in all those things I mentioned ,.,. I think it's ph rebound because of one of the articles recently posted ....before I read that I just thought that my source was packed with some other Weird ass acting substance

**ythrashin** · 10-08-2009, 01:02 PM

Perhaps it was...and perhaps there is more to var then we know. If you do var again you should do blood tests weekly from the last week week of the cycle to 4 weeks after. Testing LH levels...

**scoobysti87** · 10-08-2009, 01:14 PM

just finished reading through the majority of this thread, very good read and thank you to bjj and everyone else who has contributed to this.

**BJJ** · 10-08-2009, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by thai-lan

so you put on 15pounds and bodyfat aswell ??

do you think that electronic scale is right? i think , caliper is the best way to measure the bodyfat

Before buying the Tanita I have at home for regular checks (which I paid more than 3500 eu) I went to the usual private clinic to undergo a BMI/BMC and a hydrostatic weighing (the best measurements ever).

Well, my incredibility was deep when I figured out the results were the same.
So yes, I think I spent the money in a good way, the scale is correct.

**BJJ** · 10-08-2009, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by ythrashin

Holy shit that Tanita BC-418 scale costs over 5,000 dollars... It better be accurate!!!

I just answered thai-lan about that.
I am glad you checked out yourself...

Even though my experience brings me to say not all the time the more expensive the better... but this time it is like that.

**BJJ** · 10-08-2009, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by WARMachine

Free test. Always.

Thank you, just added.

**BJJ** · 10-08-2009, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by scoobysti87

just finished reading through the majority of this thread, very good read and thank you to bjj and everyone else who has contributed to this.

Well it is not finished yet... many weeks have to come...
Thanks

**mikey24** · 10-09-2009, 03:23 AM

Are you taking anything to keep the VAR from thrashing your good cholesterol HDL?Are your just not that worried about it?

**BJJ** · 10-09-2009, 03:37 AM

Sure, it's written.

I take EFA complex, ALA and LIV.52

Tomorrow I am going to check up my blood, so I'll see how things are going and if the supplements I take are enough.

**mikey24** · 10-09-2009, 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by BJJ

Sure, it's written.

I take EFA complex, ALA and LIV.52

Tomorrow I am going to check up my blood, so I'll see how things are going and if the supplements I take are enough.

If u find out their not enough, I read niacin can be very beneficial.
Also are you taking anything to supplement whatever natural TEST you might have suppressed from the var?Such as;tribulus,zma or any other test booster?I have always pondered if a test booster would help in such a cycle without test,maybe all start a thread.

**BJJ** · 10-09-2009, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by mikey24

If u find out their not enough, I read niacin can be very beneficial.
Also are you taking anything to supplement whatever natural TEST you might have suppressed from the var?Such as;tribulus,zma or any other test booster?I have always pondered if a test booster would help in such a cycle without test,maybe all start a thread.

Niacine is also called Vitamin PP.
Yes I already take that too, I take many supplements actually.
Thanks for the clue anyway.

I have either Tribulus and ZMA, but for my PCT.
I have on hand for the 5th week (but I was considering starting at the 4th) mesterolone, 25mg ed.

So far, I am at my 17th day, I experienced only loss of libido.
My testicles are big as usual, as well as my scrotum. When I need "that piece of meat" to raise and work, it does and the sperm volume and quantity did not change at all.

I'll see the next weeks.

**BJJ** · 10-09-2009, 08:21 AM

An intrinsically weak steroid with a high price-tag and low availability, oxandrolone owes its large popularity due to its safety. In sharp contrast to oxymetholone, oxandrolone is quite generally considered to be the safest of all steroids . Its effects are more than well-documented and have been for a few decades now. The medical community values oxandrolone as a safe alternative for more harmful steroids, which is why it is considered safe for use in children and even in patients suffering hepa-toxicity as the result of alternate steroid use .

It's most noted medical use has been in the expediting of wound healing often practically applied to the treatment of burns. But recently its gaining popularity again as a means of keeping weight on HIV-infected patients suffering from wasting due to the immuno-deficiency virus. It was also considered safe for use in prepubescent children with a growth delay7. No major harmful effects were noted from this particular therapy, eventhough one study reported that the use of oxandrolone did speed up the onset of puberty in these children. Furthermore oxandrolone has found frequent applications in the treatment of other wasting symptoms for hepatitis and cancer as well as the treatment of osteoporosis in both men and women of all ages.

Oxandrolone was introduced in the year 1964, when Searle came out with the original Anavar . It quickly became the popular drug in the sports crowd for people looking for a safer alternative to the major steroid at the time, Dianabol (methandrostenolone ). It remained one of the best-sellers for well over 2 decades until it was indefinitely discontinued in the year 1989. Much to the regret of the recreational bodybuilding and powerlifting community. The prices have remained high for the little stock that remained available. The only brand readily found was oxandrolone SPA, manufactured in Milano, Italy. That is, until 1995 when its use in the treatment of the then vastly spreading immuno-deficiency disease AIDS9 sparked the interest of BTG, a US-based company who came out with Oxandrin. The first widely available oxandrolone product since Anavar production was stopped.

The main reasons for the wide-spread use of oxandrolone in sports is because it is very appealing to female athletes as well as male athletes. It causes little or no virilization properties, demonstrated by its medical uses to treat women. This is rather surprising since oxandrolone does not aromatize either. It's the only steroid that is both safe and convenient without producing excess estrogen. That makes it particularly useful when cutting up for a contest or preventing an increase in body-fat due to estrogenic effects. In fact the main use of oxandrolone to a bodybuilder is in the maintenance of lean mass while reducing body-fat. Oxandrolone itself may not actually reduce body-fat, but it too plays a key role in the process. Like most non-aromatizing compounds it has a repressing effect on the appetite making it easier for the user to control cravings and stay strict with his diet.

Oxandrolone also has little effect on the body's own natural hormone production. The negative feedback was found to be very minor, meaning that during short term use no suppression of Gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH, start of natural testosterone production) was noted. This meant that whatever gains made, as little as they may have been, were very easily maintained post-cycle. So there was also no use for products like Clomid or Nolvadex in conjunction with oxandrolone consumption. The easy to maintain low gains would indicate a low binding to the androgen receptor. While not extremely high, it should actually be noted that it does have quite decent binding to the androgen receptor. But the reason for its mild effects is quite likely the low dose used. Rarely if ever are doses higher than 20 mg used on a daily basis. Either because of convenience or due to the high price. But comparing that the doses of other steroids this is remarkably low. So its only logical the gains and side-effects aren't particularly notable.

Of course a bodybuilder has limited use for a compound that is both a weak androgen in the doses mostly used and doesn't aromatize since no mentionable effect on mass can be produced to satisfy the chemically enhanced athlete. Therefor it is best noted that oxandrolone is most popular with power- and weightlifters to enhance strength without increasing bodyweight. This is valued highly since strength athletes often compete in weight-classes. Oxandrolone does not increase strength through androgenic stimulation, at least not primarily. It stimulates the formation of phosphocreatine, a body compound that can replenish ATP (adenosine tri-phosphate) , the main energy currency of the living organism. This gives an incredible increase in short term anaerobic performance, the type needed for explosive action such as sprinting and lifting weight.

For bodybuilders the best results are seen when stacking oxandrolone with a highly androgenic compound. Either during a mass stack with aromatizable products to boost strength a little more, or in conjunction with a non-estrogenic compound. This is most beneficial since it can maintain lean mass, decrease appetite, improve sharpness of the muscle and keep strength levels up without giving increased androgenic risk (acne, prostate hypertrophy, hair loss) when stacked with pure androgens (stanozolol , drostanolone). For those looking for safe maintenance of muscle mass a stack of Anavar with Primobolan is not a bad investment (but a big investment). The common use of oxandrolone is estimated, at 0.125 mg per pound of bodyweight. For men it should be closer to 0.2 mg per pound, for women 0.08 mg per pound per day.

The downsides to oxandrolone are minor. The worst problem by far is the poor availability and high price. But it has to be noted that, eventhough oxandrolone is nowhere near Halotestin or anadrol in hepa-toxicity, it too is a 17-alpha-alkylated substance that can cause liver damage if used for long periods on end. Other common side-effects include headaches, loss of libido, diarrhea and dizziness.

The conclusion to follow these paragraphs is of course that oxandrolone is understandably still a popular and very versatile steroid, much desired by both experienced athletes and novice users because of its many properties. While few will say this is the best or their favorite steroid, you won't find many that will have anything negative to say about it either.

Because of its mild nature and the low doses generally used with oxandrolone there is very little use for secondary compounds like anti-aromatase drugs, estrogen receptor antagonists or blood pressure medication. That in itself may somewhat make up for the high cost and little gains made on it.

In stacks Anavar is sometimes used to increase strength or help maintain it during mass phases. Oxandrolone obviously has very little to add in terms of mass compared to the other substances used to obtain such goals. It fades in comparison to test, Deca , Anadrol, D-bol and such. Nonetheless it is added quite often, perhaps because people assume it will make the overall stack less hazardous, but that's a myth of course. Frankly I would imagine there are better and cheaper things to waste your money on if mass is what you seek.

On a cutting phase oxandrolone makes a good match for 120-140 mcg of clenbuterol daily stacked with something in the nature of Halotestin or Winstrol . The combination improves muscle hardness and striation as well as support mass and strength retention. Experienced users would preferably add testosterone propionate or Equipoise no doubt, rather than Halotestin or Winstrol due to less hazard to the liver associated with those two drugs, especially Halotestin.

Mostly it is used for decent strength gains without gaining too much weight, particularly suited for weight- and powerlifters and martial artists. In that aspect, and in my humble opinion, Winstrol would be a good choice for a stack. 50 mg of Winstrol every day to every other day stacked with 30-40 mg of oxandrolone daily would give a very good result in overall strength enhancement without adding a mentionable amount of weight to the frame.

**BJJ** · 10-09-2009, 08:22 AM

Proviron is a synthetic, orally effective androgen which does not have any anabolic characteristics. Proviron is used in school medicine to ease or cure disturbances eaused by a deficiency of male sex hormones. Many athletes, for this reason, often use Proviron at the end of a steroid treatment in order to increase the reduced testosterone production. This, however is not a good idea since Proviron has no effect on the body's own testosterone production but-as mentioned in the beginning-only reduces or completely eliminates the dysfunctions caused by the testosterone deficiency. These are in particular impotence which is mostly caused by an androgen deficiency that can occur after the discontinuance of steroids , and infertility which manifests itself in a reduced sperm count and a reduced sperm quality. Proviron is therefore taken during a steroid administration or after discontinuing the use of the steroids, to eliminate a possible impotency or a reduced sexual interest. This, however does not contribute to the maintainance of strength and muscle mass after the treatment. There are other better suited compounds for this (see HCG and Clomid). For this reason Proviron is unfortunately cunsidered by many to be a useless and unnecessary compound.

You should be aware that Proviron is also an estrogen antagonist which prevents the aromatization of steroids. Unlike the antiestrogen Nolvadex which only blocks the estrogen receptors (see Nolvadex) Proviron already prevents the aromatizing of steroids. Therefore gynecomastia and increased water retention are successfully blocked. Since Proviron strongly suppresses the forming of estrogens no rebound effect occurs after discontinuation of use of the compound as is the case with, for example, Nolvadex where an aromatization of the steroids is not prevented. One can say that Nolvadex cures the problem of aromatization at its root while Nolvadex simply cures the symptoms. For this reason male athletes should prefer Proviron to Nolvadex. With Proviron the athlete obtains more muscle hardness since the androgen level is increased and the estrogen concentration remains low. This, in particular, is noted positively during the preparation for a competition when used in combination with a diet. Female athletes who naturally have a higher estrogen level often supplement their steroid intake with Proviron resulting in an increased muscle hardness. In the past it was common for bodybuilders to take a daily dose of one 25 mg tablet over several weeks, sometimes even months, in order to appear hard all year round. This was especially important for athletes appearances at guest performances, seminars and photo sessions. Today Clenbuterol is usually taken over the entire year since possible virilization symptoms cannot occur which is not yet the case with Proviron. Since Proviron is very effective male athletes usually need only 50 mg/day which means that the athlete usually takes one 25 mg tablet in the morning and another 25 mg tablet in the evening. In some cases one 25 mg tablet per day is sufficient. When combining Proviron with Nolvadex (50 mg Proviron/day and 20 mg Nolvadex/day) this will lead to an almost complete suppression of estrogen.

The side effects of Proviron in men are low at a dosage of 2-3 tablets/day so that Proviron, taken for example in combination with a steroid cycle, can be used comparatively without risk over several weeks. Since Proviron is well-tolerated by the liver liver dysfunctions do not occur in the given dosages. For athletes who are used to acting under the motto "more is better" the intake of Proviron could have a paradoxical effect. The most common side effect of Proviron-or in this case, secondary symptom- is in part a distinct sexual overstimulation and in some cases continuous penis erection. Since this condition can be painful and lead to possible damages, a lower dosage or discontinuing the compound are the only sensible solutions. Female athletes should use Proviron with caution since possible androgenic side effects cannot be excluded. Women who want to give Proviron a try should not take more than one 25 mg tablet per day. Higher dosages and periods of intake of more than four weeks considerably increase the risk of virilization symptoms. Female athletes who have no difficulties with Proviron obtain good results with 25 mg Proviron/day and 20 mg Nolvadex/day and, in combination with a diet, report an accelerated fat breakdown and continuously harder muscles.

Proviron is one of the very few steroid hormones which is still sufficiently available. The brand name Proviron costs about $35 in Germany and contains fifty 25 mg tablets. Vistimon by Jenapharm costs $ 14 per box and is packaged in two push-through strips of 10 tablets each. Proviron by Asche contains 30 dragees and costs $20.. As one can see all German manufacturers charge about $70 for one 25 mg Mesterolon tablet. This is similar to the generally observed price of $ 1 per tablet on the black market. Since the Spanish and Mexican Proviron are less expensive than the German Proviron (all compounds are by Schering) they are more readily available on the black market. The original price for 20 tablets in Spain, for example, is $ 3.60. Depending on the country of origin Proviron is packaged differently. The German Proviron is offered in small glass vials while the Spanish, Greek, and Mexican versions are included in push-through strips. However, all Proviron tablets have one thing in common: they are all indented and on the back have the stamp AX,surrounded by a hexagon. So far there are no fakes available of either Proviron or its generic compounds.

Proviron information. Proviron is the Schering brand name for the oral androgen mesterolone(1 methyl-dihydrotestosterone). Just as with DHT, the activity of Proviron is that of a strong androgen which does not aromatize into estrogen. In clinical situations Proviron is generally used to treat various types of sexual dysfunction, which often result from a low endogenous testosterone level. Proviron can usually reverse problems of sexual disinterest and impotency, and it is sometimes used to increase the sperm count. Proviron does not stimulate the body to produce testosterone, but mesterolone is simply an oral androgen substitute that is used to compensate for a lack of the natural male androgen. Although mesterolone is strongly androgenic, the anabolic effect of Proviron is considered too weak for muscle building purposes.
Proviron cycle. Most athletes actually prefer to use both Proviron and Nolvadex, especially during strongly estrogenic cycles. Proviron and Nolvadex attack estrogen at a different angle, side effects are often greatly minimized.

**lucyluciano** · 10-09-2009, 08:43 AM

How much $$ is a good run of Anavar ?

**BJJ** · 10-09-2009, 09:04 AM

Too generic.

How many weeks?
How do you intend to run your pct? I mean which drugs and length.

You also have to consider the supplements...

**lucyluciano** · 10-09-2009, 01:52 PM

I mean the Var only. I hear it's expensve for the benefits compared to other orals. Many say it's best. Left for women. I have always been intriged by Var. Say a 4 week straight cycle. Have run promag, epi, 1-T, Spawn, SD. I know many are more powerful. Just wondering the cost effectiveness?

Originally Posted by BJJ

Too generic.

How many weeks?
How do you intend to run your pct? I mean which drugs and length.

You also have to consider the supplements...

**BJJ** · 10-09-2009, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by lucyluciano

I mean the Var only. I hear it's expensve for the benefits compared to other orals. Many say it's best. Left for women. I have always been intriged by Var. Say a 4 week straight cycle. Have run promag, epi, 1-T, Spawn, SD. I know many are more powerful. Just wondering the cost effectiveness?

Var only at 60mg ed per 4 weeks, I would have paid a lot, "more or less".
I cannot tell you if it is worth compared to other steroids since this is my first cycle.
So far I am happy, I got good strength and have taken 15 lbs in 2 weeks, mostly lean mass.
Good Luck for your choice.

**chuckt12345** · 10-09-2009, 02:43 PM

BJJ they gonna tell you to delete the price talk

**Mooseman33** · 10-09-2009, 02:48 PM

and 15lbs of lean mass in 2 weeks from var?

**BJJ** · 10-09-2009, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by chuckt12345

BJJ they gonna tell you to delete the price talk

thanks man, I forgot it...

**BJJ** · 10-09-2009, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Mooseman33

and 15lbs of lean mass in 2 weeks from var?

16 Days actually and not only lean mass. Just read above...

Well I was surprised too when I jumped on the balance.
One explanation could be due to the fact I reached naturally two years ago 210,1lbs, 17,5% bf.
So, the organism just took me back to that point (muscolar memory) with less fat and the same water percentage (I eat clean and high on daily calories). Anyway, I already improved my lean mass but I guess the effect of oxandrolone will be seen, if any, from now on since I never went above that weight.
I'll see.