Free Diet advice by Narkissos & Novastepp: Intro to Performance Nutrition 101

[Sennt]

Ok guys thanks for setting me on the right track. Hows this look for my new diet considering my stats?

8:00 Meal 1: Pro/Carb
4 egg white (12 / 0 / 0)
1 scoop whey (23 / 3 / 2)
2 wheat slices (10 / 40 / 2)
45g protein / 43g carb / 4g fat

12:00 Meal 2: Pro/Fat
5 oz tuna (30 / 0 / 1)
2 tbsp natty pb (8 / 6 / 16)
38g protein / 6g carb / 17g fat


3:00 Meal 3: Pro/Carb
5oz tuna (30 / 0 / 1)
3/4 cup cooked brown rice (3 / 32 / 1)
Veggies
33g protein / 32g carb / 2g fat


6:00 Meal 4: Pro/Carb
6oz chicken breast (36 / 0 / 4)
3/4 cup cooked brown rice (3 / 32 / 1)
Veggies
39g protein / 32g carb / 5g fat


Workout

9:00 Meal 5: PWO
PWO shake (48 / 60 / 3)
48g protein / 60g carb / 3g fat


11:30 Meal 6: Pro/Fat
2 turkey patties (40 / 0 / 18)
40g protein / 0g carb / 18g fat


Totals: 2.1k cals / 243g protein / 173g carb / 49g fat

[DSM4Life]

Nark/nova what are you thoughts on dextrose ? I was thinking about giving it a try

Dextrose

[Narkissos]

To add what Narky said, your body is at an optimal anabolic state when it is in the 10-14% BF range, some even narrow it down to 10-12%. This is one of the two reasons we see more and more, if not all, pro-BB being close to competition shape. Another being that it is much easier to lose ~6% BF versus ~10%BF.

Agreed.

Additionally, getting lean seems to establish a set-point.

Once you've been there, it's easier to get back there.

-CNS

[Narkissos]

Ok guys thanks for setting me on the right track. Hows this look for my new diet considering my stats?

8:00 Meal 1: Pro/Carb
4 egg white (12 / 0 / 0)
1 scoop whey (23 / 3 / 2)
2 wheat slices (10 / 40 / 2)
45g protein / 43g carb / 4g fat

12:00 Meal 2: Pro/Fat
5 oz tuna (30 / 0 / 1)
2 tbsp natty pb (8 / 6 / 16)
38g protein / 6g carb / 17g fat


3:00 Meal 3: Pro/Carb
5oz tuna (30 / 0 / 1)
3/4 cup cooked brown rice (3 / 32 / 1)
Veggies
33g protein / 32g carb / 2g fat


6:00 Meal 4: Pro/Carb
6oz chicken breast (36 / 0 / 4)
3/4 cup cooked brown rice (3 / 32 / 1)
Veggies
39g protein / 32g carb / 5g fat


Workout

9:00 Meal 5: PWO
PWO shake (48 / 60 / 3)
48g protein / 60g carb / 3g fat


11:30 Meal 6: Pro/Fat
2 turkey patties (40 / 0 / 18)
40g protein / 0g carb / 18g fat


Totals: 2.1k cals / 243g protein / 173g carb / 49g fat

Cut the pwo shake in half... and bump the ppwo meal to 10 p.m.

Remember the role of the pwo shake is to initiate recovery... by curbing catabolism.

It is a catalyst.. Not the end of the journey.

Overall the diet looks pretty good.

I don't like meal 1..and i'm not a fan of some of the other ones.

But.. it's a decent recomposition diet.

-CNS

[Narkissos]

Nark/nova what are you thoughts on dextrose ? I was thinking about giving it a try

Dextrose

Not a fan of spiking insulin pwo.

I believe that's been discussed somewhere else on this thread.

My dieting style adheres to the precept that insulin is best maintained below a certain threshold.

So again... I don't like dextrose.

If you're using a nutrient-partitioning agent like insulin or (to a lesser degree) IGF-1, cool.

But... my dieting style isn't structured around ergogenic use.

-CNS

[Prada]

Agreed.

Additionally, getting lean seems to establish a set-point.

Once you've been there, it's easier to get back there.

-CNS

Yup, I noticed the hard way.

[DSM4Life]

Hey nark can you take a look at this, i am looking for general advise as i don't count macros...yet


Typical day

6:00am
4 eggs (3 yokes) 2 slices whole wheat bread
Bowl of oats
Multi
o mega3 sub

9:00-30am
about half cut brown rice
one chicken breast


11:00-30
more rice (half cup)
chicken breast/or fish

12:00 Workout
during i sip dextrose/water (i know u dont like dextrose but im trying it)

1:00pm
PWO shake 48g protein
dextrose (total dextrose during/after is only 40g)

3:00pm
chicken
with carrots
celery sticks with natty PB (two tablespoons)

5:30pm
2 burgers 93%lean with some cheese
baked beans

8:00-9:00
One protein shake 48 grams again

then bed time.

i am normally snacking between meals with ether almonds, or sunflower seeds.

I been reading about cutting carbs once your activity is getting ready to slow down for the day. Normally at 3:00pm i would take in more rice but i figured with all the rice that i have already taken in i should be fine. Now on days where i add cardio i would maybe add another serving of oats/rice an hour or so before.

What do you think ? Again i know its general cause i am not counting everything but just trying to get an idea of when/what to eat. My mentality with now is always focus protein, add carbs when going to be active, then remove carbs towards end of day.

27 5'6 cut down to 165lbs.

[Narkissos]

Hey nark can you take a look at this, i am looking for general advise as i don't count macros...yet

Get to counting.

Typical day

6:00am
4 eggs (3 yokes) 2 slices whole wheat bread
Bowl of oats
Multi
o mega3 sub

Too many carbs and fats in one meal.

9:00-30am
about half cut brown rice
one chicken breast


11:00-30
more rice (half cup)
chicken breast/or fish

With no knowledge of your macros, I'd say it looks like a decent couple of meals.

12:00 Workout
during i sip dextrose/water (i know u dont like dextrose but im trying it)

I saw your rationale for doing so on another thread.

I don't agree with it.

Especially given your current weight/LBM.

Overkill.

1:00pm
PWO shake 48g protein
dextrose (total dextrose during/after is only 40g)

The dex would be better served consumed pwo if the amount consumed in total is the total outlined above.

3:00pm
chicken
with carrots
celery sticks with natty PB (two tablespoons)

5:30pm
2 burgers 93%lean with some cheese
baked beans

8:00-9:00
One protein shake 48 grams again

then bed time.

Short critique?

Your meals are all over the place.

You're combing concepts...and personally I think the outcome is a mess.

i am normally snacking between meals with ether almonds, or sunflower seeds.

Again.. pointless.

You're eating regularly...and already more fat than you need by my estimate.

Why then are you exacerbating the situation (and potentially blunting your insulin response and sensitivity) by snacking between meals?

I do not like the diet at all.

I been reading about cutting carbs once your activity is getting ready to slow down for the day. Normally at 3:00pm i would take in more rice but i figured with all the rice that i have already taken in i should be fine. Now on days where i add cardio i would maybe add another serving of oats/rice an hour or so before.

Before you can 'tweak' the diet.. you need to have it laid out in a solid format.

You do not have such a format.

What do you think ? Again i know its general cause i am not counting everything but just trying to get an idea of when/what to eat. My mentality with now is always focus protein, add carbs when going to be active, then remove carbs towards end of day.

27 5'6 cut down to 165lbs.

My thoughts?

Don't waste the fat-loss you've achieved by bulking in an erratic manner.

The diet you outlined falls into that vein.

-CNS

[DSM4Life]

A bowl of oatmeal and 2 slices of bread is too many carbs ?

What do you mean by my meals are all over the place ?


Can you sort of recommend certain combos on where i am going wrong.
I want to get on the ball with this ASAP.

The chicken breast at cut from the store and there are no macros listed on the package. Its perdue chicken.

Again thanks for the time and suggestions Nark, I know most people post and don't follow through but i do and i think i am lucky to have people like you willing to devote their time to help other members where they might be lacking.

[Narkissos]

A bowl of oatmeal and 2 slices of bread is too many carbs ?

You're 165 lbs... bodyfat percentage unlisted.

To maintain weight you need about 2000 kcals.

Let's say: 200 gr pro; 200 gr carbs; 45 gr fat.. split over the course of a day... more or less equally over a number of meals.

a 'bowl' of oatmeal could be anywhere from 30 to 70gr of carbs.

2 slices of bread supply 25gr.

3 egg yolks are about 14gr fat...and then both bread and oats add fats as well.

Clearly in the first meal you're taking in a large percentage of your daily allotment.

It's a badly planned meal.

What do you mean by my meals are all over the place ?

See above:

Some meals loaded with carbs and fat, some meals loaded with fat and protein.. some 'lean'.

Looks like you combined a number of dieting styles like i alluded to.

Can you sort of recommend certain combos on where i am going wrong.
I want to get on the ball with this ASAP.

See above and previous posts.

1. calculate LBM
2. Calculate TDEE/BMR..so as to establish that you need to intest.
4. Split your total kcals over the course of the day.
5. Don't let fats exceed 20% of daily kcal allotment..
6. Don't let fats drop lower than 15% of daily kcal allotment.

The chicken breast at cut from the store and there are no macros listed on the package. Its perdue chicken.

No macros listed?

Get a scale... weigh your foods.

You know 'what' your chicken is.. but not what's in it...right?

This is simply recitified...

Go to calorie-count.com.

Input: "perdue chicken"

Voila:

http://caloriecount.about.com/cc/manufacturer/983.html
http://caloriecount.about.com/cc/item/85734.html

etc.

Again thanks for the time and suggestions Nark, I know most people post and don't follow through but i do and i think i am lucky to have people like you willing to devote their time to help other members where they might be lacking.

np.

-CNS

[M302_Imola]

Nark can you help me out with my diet? I am just coming off a lean bulk and want to drop some body fat without sacrificing my hard earned muscle. Stats: 5’-10”, 206 lbs., about 12-13% bf (estimate, can see abs but I hold a lot of fat around the “love handle” region). My goal is to cut down to 190 lbs. @ 8% bf. Can I achieve my goal by eating at maintenance level and upping the cardio? I figured my maintenance cals to be around 3300. Here’s my diet:

Food---cals---fat---carbs---protein
Meal 1: 7:00 am
Whey protein shake---240---2---6---48
1 cup Oatmeal----------250---5---45---9
Totals--------------------490---7---51---57

Meal 2: 9:00 am
1 can of tuna------------125---3---1---28
3 egg whites--------------48---0---0---10
½ cup Oats---------------150---3---27---5
Totals---------------------323---6---28---39

Meal 3: 11:00 am
Grilled Chicken Breast---240---13---2---26
1 cup Brown Rice---------170---1---35---4
Broccoli-----------------------30---0---4---1
Totals------------------------440---14---41---31

Meal 4: 1:30 pm
Whey protein shake--------240---2---6---48
½ cup Oats------------------150---3---27---5
Totals-------------------------390---5---33---53

Meal 5: (Pre-workout) 3:30 pm
1 can of tuna----------------125---3---1---28
3 egg whites------------------48---0---0---9
1 cup Oatmeal--------------300---6---50---10
Totals-------------------------473---9---51---47

Workout: 4:30-6:00 (including cardio)

Meal 6: (PWO) 6:00 pm
PWO Shake w/--------------486---2---66---48
Whey and WMS

Meal 7: 7:30 pm
8 oz. Talapia-----------------200---2---0---42
Swt. Potato-------------------215---2---44---5
Broccoli-----------------------30---0---4---1
Totals-------------------------445---4---48---48

Meal 8: 10:00 pm
Bedtime Shake w/------------360---9---9---48
Casein, 1/2 cup cottage Cheese, 1 tbls. Natty PB

Grand Total----------------------3407---56---327---371
Fat = 16%
Protein = 44%
Carbs = 40%

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

Hey Nark/Nova: Currently I'm 200lbs, 5'11'', probably 15-17% BF

Due to some recent setbacks (Pm'ed you Nark), my diet has gone out of whack. Im looking just to eat clean and healthy, and shed a few pounds, so I guess you can say Im cutting. My macros will follow as (Cals,F,C,P), respectively being (Calories, Fats, Carbs, Protein). I will leave the supplements out until the end.

Meal 1
-pack of oatmeal........................................... ...(100,2,15,4)
-fruit/egg smoothie (blueberries,raspberries,egg beaters,milk)..................................... ..............(370,0,42,35)
TOTALS: (470,2,57,39)

Meal 2
-28 almonds............(160,14,3,6)
-1 oz beef jerky.......(80,.5,5,14)
TOTALS: (240,14.5,8,20)

Meal 3
-chicken breast....(120,3,0,22)
-veggies
TOTALS: (120,3,0,22)

PWO: consisting of WMS, orange juice, and ON's Pro Complex
TOTALS: (610,.5,90,62)

Meal 5
-lean beef patty.........(180,10,0,23)
-1cup Kashi go lean....(140,1,20,13)
-veggies
TOTALS: (320,11,20,36)

Meal 6
-MHP's Probolic-SR......(260,8,6,40)
-2 tbsp flax oil...........(260,28,0,0)
-8 oz skim milk.........(80,0,12,8)
TOTALS: (600,36,18,48)

From what I calculated, I want to take in about 2,400-2,500 calories.
The day totals come out to be (2360,67,193,227)

Im thinking I might need 200 or so more calories, but I don't know of what or where to put them.

This also, comes to 29 grams of fiber, plus whatever the veggies give me.

I will be drinking 1.5 gallons everyday

Supplements:
-Lipoflame
-GNC Mega Men Multi
-Glutamine
-BCAAs
-Liquid Aminos
-RALA (before my carb meals)

Well, there it is. I might be missing something, but I tried hitting it all. Critique away!!!!

Thanks guys

[DSM4Life]

Nark,

I am going to start counting macros starting now and will post a new diet up after i get all my info needed. Also going to get LBM checked tomorrow at the gym to get an idea at where i am.


Now onto the carbs. I take most of my carbs during the day because i am active at work, then go to the gym on my lunch break then return right back to work being active again. I know the more active i am the more calories i should be taking in (i am a "hard gainer" to begin with). When it comes to taking carbs for my pre workout i guess an eating complex carbs (brown rice) and hour before should carry over into my workout correct ? Then after the workout should i ingest more complex carbs ?

I been trying the dextrose thing but something doesnt seem right with adding all this sugar so i am giving it up.

and do you believe in post post carbs ?

(u need a write up)

[VERA82]

HI Nark, great thread.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I would like some crtiques on my diet/goals.

Stats- 5"10, 185 lbs, 18% bodyfat
Goals-11% body fat with minimal muscle loss
Activity- weight training 4x week cardio 5x week ( empty stomach)




BMR 1930.75
TARGET ???? -500 to cut???


20 min Cardio (emty stomach) approx 200 kcal spent

Kcal Pro Carb Fat
1 180 Grams Egg Beaters 90 18 3 0
3 Sausage Links 170 7 1 14
Water 0 0 0 0
Total 260 25 4 14

2 175g Chicken Breast 6 oz 240.4 52 0 3
Mixed Vegetables(1 cup) 30 1 5 0
Water
Total 270.4 53 5 3

3 2 Tbsp Nat Peanut Butter 200 9 6 9
1/2 cup of Oats 150 5 27 3
Water
Total 350 14 33 12

WORKOUT******************************************* ********

4 2 Scoops Whey Protein 240 46 7 3
1 orange 62 1.2 15.4 0
8oz gatorade 55 0 14 0
Total 357 47.2 36.4 3

5 Steak 6 oz 266 35 0 14
Mixed Vegetables(1 cup) 30 1 5 0
Water
Total 296 36 5 14


Totals Kcal Pro Carb Fat
1533.4 175.2 83.4 46

[M302_Imola]

Where you at Nark?

[Narkissos]

Right here.

I have some clients who're mid-contest prep at the moment... So i haven't been able to respond to the last couple diets posted.

I must remind posters that this is an advice thread... as opposed to a 'give me a new diet' thread.

Note the difference...and bear with me.

-Narkissos

[Pinnacle]

Who the f*ck is Novastepp?

Nice of you to have this thread C.



(Marketing) :-)

[Narkissos]

Who the f*ck is Novastepp?

Nice of you to have this thread C.



(Marketing) :-)

Thanks B

-C

[gettingBIGGERfast]

When supplementing chromium, how much should be taken and when???

BTW, nice work Nark and Nova. Keep it up

[gettingBIGGERfast]

Also...

I know I'm off topic here, but I was reading a post of yours (Nark) from 2005 about you cycling theories (perpetual cycling). In another post, which had a link to said post, you stated that you would later revise your theory and put it into practice to test its applicability. Just curious if this ever happened and if there was a post with your revisions and results.

peace

[Narkissos]

Nark can you help me out with my diet?

I'll try.

I am just coming off a lean bulk and want to drop some body fat without sacrificing my hard earned muscle. Stats: 5’-10”, 206 lbs., about 12-13% bf (estimate, can see abs but I hold a lot of fat around the “love handle” region). My goal is to cut down to 190 lbs. @ 8% bf.

Noted.

1. 13% BF puts you at 180 lbs LBM... and it is THIS figure which should be the basis of your BMR calculations.

2. Guesstimating is like shooting yourself in the foot.. unless you have a lot of practice taking bodyfat percentages for other people and yourself.

Most people tend to underestimate how much fat they're carrying.

Can I achieve my goal by eating at maintenance level and upping the cardio?

To a point.. Yes.

Development/Progress isn't linear however... So eventually you'll plateau.

At this point, you'll have to manipulate one variable or another.

I figured my maintenance cals to be around 3300.

Based on what?

Unless your activity is particularly high, I'd estimate your maintenance to be right around 2500 kcals.

Please supply information to support your estimation.

Seeing that I think your calories are too high... I'll only comment on the meal composition.. as opposed to the kcal count

Here’s my diet:

Food---cals---fat---carbs---protein
Meal 1: 7:00 am
Whey protein shake---240---2---6---48
1 cup Oatmeal----------250---5---45---9
Totals--------------------490---7---51---57



Meal 2: 9:00 am
1 can of tuna------------125---3---1---28
3 egg whites--------------48---0---0---10
½ cup Oats---------------150---3---27---5
Totals---------------------323---6---28---39

Meal 3: 11:00 am
Grilled Chicken Breast---240---13---2---26
1 cup Brown Rice---------170---1---35---4
Broccoli-----------------------30---0---4---1
Totals------------------------440---14---41---31

Meal 4: 1:30 pm
Whey protein shake--------240---2---6---48
½ cup Oats------------------150---3---27---5
Totals-------------------------390---5---33---53

Meal 5: (Pre-workout) 3:30 pm
1 can of tuna----------------125---3---1---28
3 egg whites------------------48---0---0---9
1 cup Oatmeal--------------300---6---50---10
Totals-------------------------473---9---51---47

Workout: 4:30-6:00 (including cardio)

Meal 6: (PWO) 6:00 pm
PWO Shake w/--------------486---2---66---48
Whey and WMS

Meal 7: 7:30 pm
8 oz. Talapia-----------------200---2---0---42
Swt. Potato-------------------215---2---44---5
Broccoli-----------------------30---0---4---1
Totals-------------------------445---4---48---48

Meal 8: 10:00 pm
Bedtime Shake w/------------360---9---9---48
Casein, 1/2 cup cottage Cheese, 1 tbls. Natty PB

Grand Total----------------------3407---56---327---371
Fat = 16%
Protein = 44%
Carbs = 40%

The good:

1. Good food choices.
2. Decent ratios.


The not-so-good:

1. Calories are spread unequally.



Now my thoughts.

If you kept to this diet... and bumped cardio, you'd get a recomposition effect.

Ultimately you'd plateau however..and would have to lower calories to get fat loss going again.

Overall... solid 'lean bulking' diet... or recomposition diet.

Try it for 6-8 weeks... then modify it.

-CNS

[Narkissos]

Hey Nark/Nova: Currently I'm 200lbs, 5'11'', probably 15-17% BF

'Probably' is a bad word in these here parts mate

Get 'er tested...and get back to us ASAP.

Due to some recent setbacks (Pm'ed you Nark), my diet has gone out of whack.

Got the PM.. Sorry i didn't get back to you on it.

Been tied up with applying my hell week protocol (the template for shredding a client up during the last week of his contest prep) to a client of mine. It's been a fun ride... Well, for me at least.

Im looking just to eat clean and healthy, and shed a few pounds, so I guess you can say Im cutting.

Another bad word... Sureties mate...that's what we're about.

Ok... I say you're cutting, so I'll disregard the rest of the paragraph and get down to the meat of the matter.

My macros will follow as (Cals,F,C,P), respectively being (Calories, Fats, Carbs, Protein). I will leave the supplements out until the end.

Meal 1
-pack of oatmeal........................................... ...(100,2,15,4)
-fruit/egg smoothie (blueberries,raspberries,egg beaters,milk)..................................... ..............(370,0,42,35)
TOTALS: (470,2,57,39)

Meal 2
-28 almonds............(160,14,3,6)
-1 oz beef jerky.......(80,.5,5,14)
TOTALS: (240,14.5,8,20)

Meal 3
-chicken breast....(120,3,0,22)
-veggies
TOTALS: (120,3,0,22)

PWO: consisting of WMS, orange juice, and ON's Pro Complex
TOTALS: (610,.5,90,62)

Meal 5
-lean beef patty.........(180,10,0,23)
-1cup Kashi go lean....(140,1,20,13)
-veggies
TOTALS: (320,11,20,36)

Meal 6
-MHP's Probolic-SR......(260,8,6,40)
-2 tbsp flax oil...........(260,28,0,0)
-8 oz skim milk.........(80,0,12,8)
TOTALS: (600,36,18,48)

From what I calculated, I want to take in about 2,400-2,500 calories.
The day totals come out to be (2360,67,193,227)

Im thinking I might need 200 or so more calories, but I don't know of what or where to put them.

This also, comes to 29 grams of fiber, plus whatever the veggies give me.

I will be drinking 1.5 gallons everyday

Supplements:
-Lipoflame
-GNC Mega Men Multi
-Glutamine
-BCAAs
-Liquid Aminos
-RALA (before my carb meals)

Well, there it is. I might be missing something, but I tried hitting it all. Critique away!!!!

Thanks guys

Ok... The kcals are about right.

Please note that @ 200 lbs and 17% BF.. your LBM is 166 lbs or thereabout.

Back to your diet:

1. total fat is too high. You're at 26% of calories at present... drop that down to 20%

2. You aren't noting the vegetable portion size, or the carbs/kcals they contribute. This'll throw your totals.

3. I suspect your diet, as it is laid out, is high in sugar.
Not counting PWO, meals 1,2,5 and 6 all contain sources of sugar.

4. Milk should not be in a cutting diet.


Again, a decent recomposition diet... Relaxed...not too intensive.

Toss some cardio in there.. plus a GDA, and you've got something that could work for about 6 weeks.

-CNS

[Narkissos]

Nark,

Hey buddy.

I am going to start counting macros starting now and will post a new diet up after i get all my info needed. Also going to get LBM checked tomorrow at the gym to get an idea at where i am.

Great.. bump for the verdict!

Now onto the carbs. I take most of my carbs during the day because i am active at work, then go to the gym on my lunch break then return right back to work being active again.

Noted.

I know the more active i am the more calories i should be taking in (i am a "hard gainer" to begin with).

Yep...to a point.

When it comes to taking carbs for my pre workout i guess an eating complex carbs (brown rice) and hour before should carry over into my workout correct ?

That depends on the nature of the complex carb...as well as what else is ingested alongside it.

The short answer would be 'no' however...or rather 'not entirely'.

If you were to say take in boiled white potatoes (no protein nor fat added) an hour before working out.. yea it'd carry over.I've experienced this first hand as have my clients. (particularly those who are on carb-timing diets)

However, add a protein or fat source (or combination of both) to that meal and while gastric emptying would be delayed only slightly, this'd be enough to slow assimilation and utilization.

So to your question... While the meal you have pre-workout will have some effect, it will not be as pronounced as say the same amount of carbs spread over 2-3 meals prior to training.

You get what I'm saying?

Then after the workout should i ingest more complex carbs ?

Yes.

I been trying the dextrose thing but something doesnt seem right with adding all this sugar so i am giving it up.

Good stuff.

and do you believe in post post carbs ?

Yep.

(u need a write up)

Of what nature?

-C

[Narkissos]

HI Nark, great thread.

Thanks mate.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Will try.

I would like some crtiques on my diet/goals.

Stats- 5"10, 185 lbs, 18% bodyfat
Goals-11% body fat with minimal muscle loss
Activity- weight training 4x week cardio 5x week ( empty stomach)

Noted.

<>150 lbs LBM

Goals: 170 lbs w/ 11% bf (i.e. <> 150 lbs LBM)

kcals re-adjusted for desired bodyweight.

BMR 1930.75
TARGET ???? -500 to cut???

1. Maintenance adjusted to: 2040

2. Manipulate expenditure.

20 min Cardio (emty stomach) approx 200 kcal spent

Bump to 45 minutes.

Kcal Pro Carb Fat
1 180 Grams Egg Beaters 90 18 3 0
3 Sausage Links 170 7 1 14
Water 0 0 0 0
Total 260 25 4 14

2 175g Chicken Breast 6 oz 240.4 52 0 3
Mixed Vegetables(1 cup) 30 1 5 0
Water
Total 270.4 53 5 3

3 2 Tbsp Nat Peanut Butter 200 9 6 9
1/2 cup of Oats 150 5 27 3
Water
Total 350 14 33 12

WORKOUT******************************************* ********

4 2 Scoops Whey Protein 240 46 7 3
1 orange 62 1.2 15.4 0
8oz gatorade 55 0 14 0
Total 357 47.2 36.4 3

5 Steak 6 oz 266 35 0 14
Mixed Vegetables(1 cup) 30 1 5 0
Water
Total 296 36 5 14


Totals Kcal Pro Carb Fat
1533.4 175.2 83.4 46

1. Kcals too low. Seeing that you're averaging about 300kcals/meal, it'd take two more meals to meet your kcal requirements.

2. Too much protein in some meals.. not enough in others.

3. too much fat in some meals.

4. Think consistent supply... Spread your kcals and macros equally over the course of the day.


-CNS

[Narkissos]

When supplementing chromium, how much should be taken and when???

That'd depend on the purpose for taking it, as well as the training/eating phase you're in...

For carb loads: 200 mcg + 40 mg Vanadyl sulphate @ each carb-containing meal.

For cutting: 200 mcg + 100 mg B-complex @ every other meal. (starting at meal 3... as meal 1 will normally be taken with a multivitamin. Generally multis contain 100 mcg chromium + b-complex)

For cheat meals: 1000 mcg chromium w/ cheat meal.

Off-season: 200 mcg chromium + 2-3gr vitamin C pwo.

Carb-cycling: 200 mcg chromium w/ every meal

Carb-depletion: 200 mcg chromium w/ every meal

That's off the top of my head.

BTW, nice work Nark and Nova. Keep it up

Thanks mate.

Also...

I know I'm off topic here, but I was reading a post of yours (Nark) from 2005 about you cycling theories (perpetual cycling). In another post, which had a link to said post, you stated that you would later revise your theory and put it into practice to test its applicability. Just curious if this ever happened and if there was a post with your revisions and results.

peace

Ah... This post surprised the hell out of me.

I had to do a double-take at your registration date...because that's an old, old hypothesis.

Interesting enough, I'm running a similar experiment at present.

...and will be for another year probably.

Send me a friend request so that the system allows you to PM me...and we can talk in more detail via PM or email.

-CNS

[DSM4Life]

Cal / PRO / CARBS / FATS


6:00am
4 eggs (1 yoke) 118 / 16.8 / 1.6 / 4.8
oatmeal (1/2 cup) 150 / 5 / 27 / 3
Flaxseed oil sub
mutli


8:30am
6oz chicken breast 180/ 33 / 1.5 / 3.75
carrots (2) 70 / 2 / 8 / 0

10:30-11
6oz chicken breast 180/ 33 / 1.5 / 3.75
brown rice half cup 150 / 5 / 27 / 3


workout

1:00-
PWO
6oz chicken breast 180/ 33 / 1.5 / 3.75
brown rice (1/4 cup) 170 / 4 / 35 / 1.5

3:00pm
1 chicken breast 120 / 22 / 1 / 2.5
Olive oil 1 Tbsp 120 / 0 / 0 / 14
celery (2) 38 / .16 / 7.2 / .4

5:30pm
4oz tilapia fillet -baked 93 / 21 / 0 / 1
veggies.



8:30pm
Shake (1 scoop ) 117 / 24 / 2 / 2
Olive oil 1 Tbsp 120 / 0 / 0 / 14

BED

So then for a average day i have
Cal pro / carbs /fats
1768/ 215 / 106 / 57

chicken will be sub with lean ground beef and/or turkey. Can't have chicken that often everyday.

Also thanks to pinn for help.

[M302_Imola]

Based on what?

Unless your activity is particularly high, I'd estimate your maintenance to be right around 2500 kcals.

Please supply information to support your estimation.

-CNS

To obtain my maintenance calories I used the Katch-McArdle formula, which I believe you suggested in an earlier post.
Formula: BMR = 370 + (21.6 X lean mass in kg), based on a LBM of 180 lbs = 82 kg
= 370 + (21.6 X 82)
= 2141.20
I have a desk job but I lift weights 5 days a week and perform cardio PWO 4 days a week. Which I believe would put me moderately active = 1.55 (multiplier)
So… 2141.20 X 1.55 = 3318 cals
Nark, is my math off? How did you get my maintenance cals to be 2500 cals?
I am going to work on spreading my cals more evenly once I am certain what my maintenance cals are. Nark, thank you for taking the time to post this thread and helping everyone out!

[Narkissos]

To obtain my maintenance calories I used the Katch-McArdle formula, which I believe you suggested in an earlier post.
Formula: BMR = 370 + (21.6 X lean mass in kg), based on a LBM of 180 lbs = 82 kg
= 370 + (21.6 X 82)
= 2141.20
I have a desk job but I lift weights 5 days a week and perform cardio PWO 4 days a week. Which I believe would put me moderately active = 1.55 (multiplier)
So… 2141.20 X 1.55 = 3318 cals
Nark, is my math off? How did you get my maintenance cals to be 2500 cals?
I am going to work on spreading my cals more evenly once I am certain what my maintenance cals are. Nark, thank you for taking the time to post this thread and helping everyone out!

Your math isn't 'off'... I work with a <>20% caloric reduction on calculated TDEE while cutting.

Higher than BMR... but lower than TDEE.

-CNS

[Narkissos]

Looks good overall... Slightly low in calories.

Optimally, 1980kcals should be your average per day for the week.

You have one of two options.

You can bump your diet's kcals on a daily basis... Or you can add in a high carb (all low glycemic) low-fat refeed once per week.

Cal / PRO / CARBS / FATS


6:00am
4 eggs (1 yoke) 118 / 16.8 / 1.6 / 4.8
oatmeal (1/2 cup) 150 / 5 / 27 / 3
Flaxseed oil sub
mutli


8:30am
6oz chicken breast 180/ 33 / 1.5 / 3.75
carrots (2) 70 / 2 / 8 / 0

10:30-11
6oz chicken breast 180/ 33 / 1.5 / 3.75
brown rice half cup 150 / 5 / 27 / 3


workout

1:00-
PWO
6oz chicken breast 180/ 33 / 1.5 / 3.75
brown rice (1/4 cup) 170 / 4 / 35 / 1.5

3:00pm
1 chicken breast 120 / 22 / 1 / 2.5
Olive oil 1 Tbsp 120 / 0 / 0 / 14
celery (2) 38 / .16 / 7.2 / .4

5:30pm
4oz tilapia fillet -baked 93 / 21 / 0 / 1
veggies.



8:30pm
Shake (1 scoop ) 117 / 24 / 2 / 2
Olive oil 1 Tbsp 120 / 0 / 0 / 14

BED

So then for a average day i have
Cal pro / carbs /fats
1768/ 215 / 106 / 57

chicken will be sub with lean ground beef and/or turkey. Can't have chicken that often everyday.

Also thanks to pinn for help.

Good to have B around again

-CNS

[M302_Imola]

Your math isn't 'off'... I work with a <>20% caloric reduction on calculated TDEE while cutting.

Higher than BMR... but lower than TDEE.

-CNS

That being said, in your opinion what would be my optimal caloric intake for cutting while retaining muscle mass? Thanks Nark, you the man

[DSM4Life]

Looks good overall... Slightly low in calories.

Optimally, 1980kcals should be your average per day for the week.

You have one of two options.

You can bump your diet's kcals on a daily basis... Or you can add in a high carb (all low glycemic) low-fat refeed once per week.





Good to have B around again

-CNS

I agree the cals are a little low and i am going to find ways to work more in. Would natty PB be a good snack ? Couple Tbsp's here and there (not going over board of course)? That PB taste so good i could eat it every day ! haha

Peanut Butter 2 Tbsp.
210 / 8 / 6 / 16

I got my BF checked but the gym no longer has body calipers they use them stupid handheld devices. It stated i was at 14% bf and said i was fat lol.


Or you can add in a high carb (all low glycemic) low-fat refeed once per week. ? maybe i am not reading this correctly, example ?

[VERA82]

Thanks, Nark.

I really appreciate your help.

Alan

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

Been tied up with applying my hell week protocol (the template for shredding a client up during the last week of his contest prep) to a client of mine. It's been a fun ride... Well, for me at least.

Interesting, what is this hell week protocol? If I may ask.

Ok... The kcals are about right.

Please note that @ 200 lbs and 17% BF.. your LBM is 166 lbs or thereabout.

Back to your diet:

1. total fat is too high. You're at 26% of calories at present... drop that down to 20%

Alrighty

2. You aren't noting the vegetable portion size, or the carbs/kcals they contribute. This'll throw your totals.

3. I suspect your diet, as it is laid out, is high in sugar.
Not counting PWO, meals 1,2,5 and 6 all contain sources of sugar.

How much sugar is too much? Also, if its fruit sugar, wouldn't that be okay? I just feel the nutrients from fruits are too good to pass up. Whats your take?

4. Milk should not be in a cutting diet.


Again, a decent recomposition diet... Relaxed...not too intensive.

Toss some cardio in there.. plus a GDA, and you've got something that could work for about 6 weeks.

I understand everything your saying, but I just want to reiterate that Im not really trying to hit everything exactly on spot. Im mainly just trying to get back on track right now. Because compared to my diet a week ago, I already feel better overall.

-CNS

Thanks. See Bold

[Deltasaurus]

I was told to post this here im 20 5'9 190 and probally 14-18% body fat i want to get really cut up im happy with my muscle size except chest i would like to get to 6-10 percent bodyfat if thats even possible also i have no gear experince and asking you guys because so far i have found you all the most knowledgeable on the bodybuilding/fitness athletic subject thanks

my daily sample diet

meal 1-some oatmeal w/ 1% mile and a scoop of whey

snack 1-some fruit and almonds or peice of chick breast with some cheese

meal 2-a shke with no-fat no sugar yogurt with 1% milk ice some whey and a little juice no HF corn syrup or like a sammy with no mayo on whole wheat or something like that

snack 2-2 corn tortillas with some black beans and chicken or egg whites

post gym snack-scoop of whey with big apple

gym 7-9:30 doing 20-30 mins of cardio after wieghts on stationary bike hr 140-150

PWO snack-2 scoops of whey with fruit juice

b4 bedtime-cottage cheese with pepper, i try to eat every 2 or 2 and half hours

[DSM4Life]

I was told to post this here im 20 5'9 190 and probally 14-18% body fat i want to get really cut up im happy with my muscle size except chest i would like to get to 6-10 percent bodyfat if thats even possible also i have no gear experince and asking you guys because so far i have found you all the most knowledgeable on the bodybuilding/fitness athletic subject thanks

my daily sample diet

meal 1-some oatmeal w/ 1% mile and a scoop of whey

snack 1-some fruit and almonds or peice of chick breast with some cheese

meal 2-a shke with no-fat no sugar yogurt with 1% milk ice some whey and a little juice no HF corn syrup or like a sammy with no mayo on whole wheat or something like that

snack 2-2 corn tortillas with some black beans and chicken or egg whites

post gym snack-scoop of whey with big apple

gym 7-9:30 doing 20-30 mins of cardio after wieghts on stationary bike hr 140-150

PWO snack-2 scoops of whey with fruit juice

b4 bedtime-cottage cheese with pepper, i try to eat every 2 or 2 and half hours

They are going to need macros (cal /carbs /pro /fats)
It sucks but it has to be done

[Narkissos]

That being said, in your opinion what would be my optimal caloric intake for cutting while retaining muscle mass? Thanks Nark, you the man

Based on your stats etc. I'd go with 2500kcals.

Good luck mate.

Re-post your updated diet when you compile it.

-CNS

p.s. You can use the higher kcal total on your re-feed day/days. I'd schedule 'em the day before a heavy leg or back session.

[Narkissos]

I agree the cals are a little low and i am going to find ways to work more in. Would natty PB be a good snack ? Couple Tbsp's here and there (not going over board of course)? That PB taste so good i could eat it every day ! haha

Peanut Butter 2 Tbsp.
210 / 8 / 6 / 16

2 tbsp to your 5:30 p.m. meal would cover it.

I got my BF checked but the gym no longer has body calipers they use them stupid handheld devices. It stated i was at 14% bf and said i was fat lol.

Is there another gym nearby?

Or you can add in a high carb (all low glycemic) low-fat refeed once per week. ?

maybe i am not reading this correctly, example ?

i.e. Adhere to the lower calorie approach for 6 days...and on the 7th day, carb-load.

So.. say at 165 lbs.. you've been cutting @ 1980 KCALs (w/ an actual maintenance of: 2475kcals).. you'd consume between 2475-2805 kcals on your re-feed day.

Very low fat... moderate protein.. high carbs.

400 gr carbs; 200 gr protein; <>50 gr fat... for example.

^^Split evenly over the course of the day.

-CNS

[Narkissos]

Thanks, Nark.

I really appreciate your help.

Alan

np mate

They are going to need macros (cal /carbs /pro /fats)
It sucks but it has to be done

Agreed.

Additionally, it would be best if an actual bodyfat reading was supplied...as opposed to a guesstimate.

-CNS

[Narkissos]

Almost missed your questions:

Interesting, what is this hell week protocol? If I may ask.

I'll try to answer this without going into too much detail

Hell week is a misnomer...as the actual 'week' is actually 2 weeks.

The days run into each other...and clients feel like death tru-out, so they really can't tell when one day ends and the other begins lol.

Hell week is my peak-conditioning template.

After a client goes tru the multiple phases of my contest preps, they're more or less shredded.

Hell week is yet another (bi-phasic) stage which serves to bring out that stage-ready condition.

Training borders on over-training...as does cardio.

The diet is ultra-depletive...so as to facilitate glycogen supercompensation during the carb-loading phase.

Training and cardio are changed in the second week as well...

Sodium/potassium/carbs/fat/water as well.

At the end of it, the client looks better than he/she has ever looked.

They also hate me for a couple days/weeks after.

Then they get over it...and we repeat the offseason phases.

How much sugar is too much? Also, if its fruit sugar, wouldn't that be okay? I just feel the nutrients from fruits are too good to pass up. Whats your take?

I'm not comfortable answering the underlined question.

I'll tell you why:

1. everyone's different.
2. everyone starts at a different level of conditioning.
3. goals differ across the board.

That being said, I'm generally comfortable advising that people leave fruits out until they're at a manageable bodyfat level.

That.. and until they cut out grain sources of carbohydrates as well as processed carbs in general.

Leaving the latter concept alone, I'll address the former.

Someone who is already lean is less likely to put on fat from these sources.

Someone who isn't however, will get fat.

Being fat isn't a 'natural' or 'healthy' state... A lot of our signals get crossed.

Needless to say, this reiterates my point: if you're lean already, some things are acceptable... If you aren't, don't fool yourself.

The health benefits of fruits you can derive from vegetables.

So... I advise that most adhere to vegetable choices.

It's a much simpler variable to manipulate when you aren't absolutely shredded.

I understand everything your saying, but I just want to reiterate that Im not really trying to hit everything exactly on spot. Im mainly just trying to get back on track right now. Because compared to my diet a week ago, I already feel better overall.

Understood.

I wish you continued good luck

-CNS

[Narkissos]

Don't forget to rate this thread guys

-CNS