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Thread: Free Diet advice by Narkissos & Novastepp: Intro to Performance Nutrition 101

  1. #601
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    what is the best ratio for a clean bulk with test e and a prop kickstart? thanks i wanna put on as much mass as possible with minimal fat because i wanna do 2 cycles over a year and then cut

  2. #602
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodybuilder1107 View Post
    what is the best ratio for a clean bulk with test e and a prop kickstart? thanks i wanna put on as much mass as possible with minimal fat because i wanna do 2 cycles over a year and then cut
    What you're injecting shouldn't affect the ratio of what you're ingesting.. unless you're applying a nutrient-partitioning agent like slin/IGF-1... or an agent which significantly increases feed efficiency, like trenbolone .

    The short answer?

    40/40/20.

    ^^Baseline.

    -CNS

  3. #603
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    Quote Originally Posted by *Narkissos* View Post
    What you're injecting shouldn't affect the ratio of what you're ingesting.. unless you're applying a nutrient-partitioning agent like slin/IGF-1... or an agent which significantly increases feed efficiency, like trenbolone .

    The short answer?

    40/40/20.

    ^^Baseline.

    -CNS
    would 50prot/30carb/20 fat be allright for me i tend to put fat on easily

  4. #604
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodybuilder1107 View Post
    would 50prot/30carb/20 fat be allright for me i tend to put fat on easily
    If you 'tend to put on fat easily' look at your carb, protein, & fat sources... Look at your blood work.

    More protein does not mean more muscle.

    -CNS

  5. #605
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    Quote Originally Posted by *Narkissos* View Post
    If you 'tend to put on fat easily' look at your carb, protein, & fat sources... Look at your blood work.

    More protein does not mean more muscle.

    -CNS

    well not that easy and when i do its alot of pizza and mcdonalds diet so i guess its logical but i see what your saying

  6. #606
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    ^^Pizza and McDonalds?


  7. #607
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    thats not what i eat now im just saying before i got back into the gym i could eat pizza and the next day my pants would literally be too tight i could put on like 5 pounds a week, i was in a rough relation shipo but im out and back now and lost most of waht i put on from the stress life i had

  8. #608
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    i re-did the diet and made it fit a 2200 cals but i do WO 5-6 days a week and cardio once if not twice a fay for 30-40 mins but i really just wanna cut that my primary goal im not really worried about losing some muscle i have no problem buidling muscle but lose BF is always hard for me but i still have my old diet if i need to do the 2400 cals
    so whadaya think hmmmmm?

  9. #609
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    Hey nark,

    I read in another thread that you take bromelain every 3 hours so I thought you'd be the ideal person to ask.

    For digestion purposes, when is the best time to take bromelain? with a meal or before?

    For anti-inflammation, I know you have to take it on an empty stomach.. but how would you go about taking bromelain daily for both its digestive and anti-inflammatory benefits!

    Thanks man

  10. #610
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneInTheMembrane View Post
    Hey nark,

    I read in another thread that you take bromelain every 3 hours so I thought you'd be the ideal person to ask.

    For digestion purposes, when is the best time to take bromelain? with a meal or before?

    For anti-inflammation, I know you have to take it on an empty stomach.. but how would you go about taking bromelain daily for both its digestive and anti-inflammatory benefits!

    Thanks man
    Nice thought-provoking question buddy!

    I may have to disappoint though, because i won't have a long-winded reply

    It's a matter of simplicity w/ this enzyme.

    i.e. when dosing frequency goes up, the 'when' of administration becomes less important.

    ^^Kind of an overstatement, but i'll explain.

    Bromelain levels peak about an hour post-administration.

    So ideally it'd serve 'best' for digestive purposes if this product is consumed 1hr before meals.

    However... when taken on an empty stomach, approximately 40% of bromelain is absorbed into the blood stream... where it can stimulate the production and release of anti-inflammatory prostaglandins, as well as simultaneously reduce the production and release of proinflammatory prostaglandins[1][2]

    I took bromelain every 3 hours tru-out the day to keep levels more or less constant.

    If your 3-hour mark happens to fall 1hr before each meal, you've got the best of both worlds.

    Like i said above however, as dosing frequency goes up... the 'when' ceases to be as important... as long as the intervals are constant.

    -CNS


    References:

    1. Taussig, S. " The mechanism of the physiological action of bromelain" Med Hypoth 6 (1980): 99-104.
    2. Kelly, G. "Bromelain: A literature review and discussion of its therapeutic applications" Alt Med Rev 1 (1996): 243-57.


  11. #611
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    ^^^ That's some rock solid info, it makes perfect sense!!

    Thanx for the knowledge!
    Much appreciated ,
    cheers

  12. #612
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodybuilder1107 View Post
    thats not what i eat now im just saying before i got back into the gym i could eat pizza and the next day my pants would literally be too tight i could put on like 5 pounds a week, i was in a rough relation shipo but im out and back now and lost most of waht i put on from the stress life i had
    Exactly my point.

    My post suggested that you look at food choices: re: pizza

    ...as well as blood work: re: stress levels.

    Rough relationship = high cortisol output = blunted glucose tolerance.

    Pizza = poor food choice.

    Factors combined = fat.

    -CNS

  13. #613
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    Quote Originally Posted by novastepp View Post
    Nark, few questions about this topic lately have brought it back to light. so any new conclusions being made? or any advice you would like to give on your experiences?
    Not at this time...no.

    I've been managing so many projects that i was unable to start my BCAA fast and other related experiments.

    Stayed tuned however, as the year is not yet over.

    -C

  14. #614
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneInTheMembrane View Post
    ^^^ That's some rock solid info, it makes perfect sense!!

    Thanx for the knowledge!
    Much appreciated ,
    cheers
    np mate.

  15. #615
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    Quote Originally Posted by novastepp View Post
    I would simply add 15g of BCAAs, 5g of creatine monohydrate, and 32 oz of water, with crystal light (lemondae flavor...to taste) in a shaker and sip it before, during, and finish it after my workout.
    I have no real structured experience with intraworkout nutrition... so i'll defer on this one.

    The advice does appear sound however.

    -C

  16. #616
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by novastepp View Post

    i can't find the article that stated how BCAAs and some carbohydrates before, during, and after exercise helped increase protein synthesis. i'm going to keep looking because it presented a lot of information about nutrition surrounding workouts.
    I think you're referring to the "BCAA + CHO > BCAA" discussion that Giants11 and Jayhova were having.

    I think that this notion was disproved in subsequent discussions however.

    ...though 'disproved' may not be the most apt word.

    Quote Originally Posted by paddy155
    Nova,I read the first couple of pages and I am still unsure what to do. Do I take in all 3 BCAAs or should I focus on Lecuine. I also do not know how much of each is the the norm to take. Can someone give me some advice on this subject as it is a grey area with me.
    What is most affordable for you?

    Leucine is the current 'rage'.

    Not discounting its role... because it is scientifically documented.

    However what people fail to further investigate is the what effect hypersupplementation has on other aspects of our bodies.

    Our body is a sum of systemic interactions.

    An excess of one factor results in a reduction in another.

    e.g. excess BCAA supplementation reduces Dopamine levels.[1] Still we see people advising constant infusions of BCAAs to 'maintain a constant state of protein synthesis'. These people clearly have no idea of how the body works. The only 'constant' is the eb and flow of processes, both negative and positive.

    w/ reference to Leucine... it can be beneficial, yes. Do i believe that it should be supplemented to the exclusion of other BCAAs? I'm unsure. It has documented potential... but documentation only goes so far.

    I still surmise that we overthink things.

    Simple approach?

    5 gr BCAAs pre- and pwo.

    5 gr first thing in the a.m.

    These are the times when protein synthesis, and protein-sparing are 'most important'.

    -CNS


    References:

    1. Br J Psychiatry. 2003 Mar;182:210-3. Effects of a branched-chain amino acid drink in mania. Scarna A, Gijsman HJ, McTavish SF, Harmer CJ, Cowen PJ, Goodwin GM.


  17. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by A2thej2008 View Post
    Im 5'9 20yrs old 180lbs WO 5-6 days a week no gear and probally 13% bf if u wanna guess check my new pics http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=346821
    16%

    Quote Originally Posted by A2thej2008 View Post
    also im trying for a "serious cut" hoping to get down sub 10% never had abs B4 really want them
    6am wake up to 30-40 mins cardio 65% HR

    get home at 6:50am and i eat 1/2 oat meal and drink 1/2 eggwhites and another 1/2 cup oat meal

    oatmeal 300 cals

    fat 5gs carbs 52 protein 10

    eggwhites 60cals
    fat 0 carbs 0 protein12gs
    Too many carbs


    Quote Originally Posted by A2thej2008 View Post
    go back to sleep wake up at 9am

    eat 1 cup oatmeal 300 cals

    fat 5gscarbs 52 protein 10

    the 1/2 cup egg whites oats and eggs white cooked this time .
    egg whites 60cals
    fat 0 carb 0 protein 12
    Too many carbs.

    Quote Originally Posted by A2thej2008 View Post
    11:30-12:00 1/2 can tuna 105 cals

    fat 1.25 carb 0 protein 24

    cup of oats 300 cals
    fat 5g carb 52gs protein10gs
    Too many carbs.


    Quote Originally Posted by A2thej2008 View Post
    2:30-3:00pm 4oz 93+% lean beef 152 cals
    fat 6 gs carb 0 protein 24

    cup of oats 300 cals
    fat 5 carb 52 protein 10
    Too many carbs.


    Quote Originally Posted by A2thej2008 View Post
    6:00p 8oz sweet potatoes yellow inside think the SP 206cals
    fat 0 carb 48 pro 5ish

    Extra vir Olive oil EVO 1/2tbsp cals 60
    fat 7gs carb 0 pro 0

    5oz chicken brest 150cals
    fat 3 carb 0 pro 32

    then workout for 1 1/2 hours plus 30mins cardio 65-70%HR

    then pwo nutrition
    9:00pm
    1 1/2 scoops whey protein 180cals
    fat 1.5 carb 1.5 protein 36

    cup of oats 300 cals
    fat 5gs carb 52 pro 10

    then b4 bed cup no fat cottage cheese as casein protein 160 cals fat0 carbs6 26 grams protein

    tbsp evo 120 cals 14gs fat


    fat=51ish carb=263 ish pro=211ish
    should be around kcal480 should be around 1100 should be around 840 daily total 2400kcals
    and another thing
    I've typed 'too many carbs' too many times for this critique.. So i'll cease at this point.

    You're cutting... Your bodyfat is on the 'high side' of moderate.

    Cutting, like bulking... hinges on consuming the proper amount of calories.

    The 'proper' amount is relative to your LBM and other factors... but we stress LBM as primary.

    Right now you're just piling the carbs in indiscriminately.

    Quote Originally Posted by A2thej2008 View Post
    i didnt calc but i was going for 45% carbs 20% fat 35% protein i think its about right lemme know if anythings of or what not
    thats about what i do more or less every day and i belive its working

    wait i calc'ed and i need more carbs where to i put them???
    2200kcals is where you be around.

    Work backward from that point.

    -CNS

  18. #618
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    OK i will now be posting my new diet for u to approve

  19. #619
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    Talking Revised Diet

    Ok here it is just the Diet

    Meal 1
    1/2 cup egg whites cal 120
    Fat 0 carb 0 pro 12

    3/4 cup oats cal 225
    fat3.75 carb40 pro7.5

    meal 2
    1/2 cup egg whites cal 120
    Fat 0 carb 0 pro 12

    3/4 cup oats cal 225
    fat3.75 carb40 pro7.5

    meal 3
    1/2 can tuna cal 100
    fat .75 carb 0 pro 24

    6oz Sweet Potatoe w/ skin cal 150
    fat 0 carb 36 pro 3.75

    meal 4
    4 oz lean beef cal 150
    fat 6 carb 0 pro 24

    3/4 cup oat cal 225
    fat 3.75 carb 40 pro 7.5

    meal 5
    5 oz Chicken Breast cal 150
    fat 3 carb 0 pro 36

    6oz Sweet Potatoe w/ skin cal 150
    fat 0 carb 36 pro 3.75

    1/2 Tbsp EVO cal 60
    fat 7 carb 0 pro 0

    meal 6 PWO Nutr.
    2 scoops whey cal 240
    fat 2 carb 2 pro 48
    1 cup oats cal 300
    fat 5 carb 52 pro 10 <---------i think this meal may be to much pro and carbs but waiting 4 ur input

    MEAL 7 1 cup no fat cottage cheese 160 cals
    fat 0 carb 6 pro 26

    1 tbsp EVO 120 cals
    fat 14 carb 0 pro 0

    totals kcals Carbs 1000 pro 770 fat 440

    in grams carbs=250G
    pro=192
    fat=48

    ok give a take a few cals or grams my calcs are a little of i belive but not enough to matter

    hope this is good thanks a million

    -AJ
    Last edited by Deltasaurus; 09-12-2008 at 01:55 PM. Reason: Spelling

  20. #620
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    Thanks nova and nark. My knowledge grow's everyday with you guy's help.

  21. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by A2thej2008 View Post
    Ok here it is just the Diet

    Meal 1
    1/2 cup egg whites cal 120
    Fat 0 carb 0 pro 12

    3/4 cup oats cal 225
    fat3.75 carb40 pro7.5
    i'd go with a half cup

    meal 2
    1/2 cup egg whites cal 120
    Fat 0 carb 0 pro 12

    3/4 cup oats cal 225
    fat3.75 carb40 pro7.5
    again, i'd stick to half a cup

    meal 3
    1/2 can tuna cal 100
    fat .75 carb 0 pro 24

    6oz Sweet Potatoe w/ skin cal 150
    fat 0 carb 36 pro 3.75

    meal 4
    4 oz lean beef cal 150
    fat 6 carb 0 pro 24

    3/4 cup oat cal 225
    fat 3.75 carb 40 pro 7.5
    ditto

    meal 5
    5 oz Chicken Breast cal 150
    fat 3 carb 0 pro 36

    6oz Sweet Potatoe w/ skin cal 150
    fat 0 carb 36 pro 3.75

    1/2 Tbsp EVO cal 60
    fat 7 carb 0 pro 0
    pre workout? no need for EVO

    meal 6 PWO Nutr.
    2 scoops whey cal 240
    fat 2 carb 2 pro 48
    1 cup oats cal 300
    fat 5 carb 52 pro 10 <---------i think this meal may be to much pro and carbs but waiting 4 ur input

    fine. carbs and pro's are needed pre and post, maybe go with your 3/4 cup of oats and move that EVO down here, for about 5g fat, a teaspoon.

    MEAL 7 1 cup no fat cottage cheese 160 cals
    fat 0 carb 6 pro 26

    1 tbsp EVO 120 cals
    fat 14 carb 0 pro 0

    totals kcals Carbs 1000 pro 770 fat 440

    much much better. i still think ur carbs are a tad high for your bf% and you're cut, you can supplement any changes with a little more protein to fill in the gaps. i would aim for at least 30g protein in ever meal, and you are coming up just short of that in your "egg white meals". so that would accurate reflect any changes. but again, much better

    in grams carbs=250G
    pro=192
    fat=48
    make your pro/carb almost the same, hover a lil above the 210g mark.

    ok give a take a few cals or grams my calcs are a little of i belive but not enough to matter

    hope this is good thanks a million

    -AJ
    looking good my man. critiques in bold.

  22. #622
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    Quote Originally Posted by paddy155 View Post
    Thanks nova and nark. My knowledge grow's everyday with you guy's help.
    it's a circle, we learn more when we are asked good questions, so keep em comin' man.

  23. #623
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    Quote Originally Posted by *Narkissos* View Post
    Not at this time...no.

    I've been managing so many projects that i was unable to start my BCAA fast and other related experiments.

    Stayed tuned however, as the year is not yet over.

    -C
    you rascal.

  24. #624
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    thanks Nova. ok ill guess il switch that up. and i wanted to know nark said drinking oats and eating egg whites or vica versa VS eatin them whole didnt matter to any signifacnt degree. can i drink both or does that not properly get my Metabolism going?

  25. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by novastepp View Post
    it's a circle, we learn more when we are asked good questions, so keep em comin' man.
    I agree.

    Let's be honest... I've been at this for a long-assed time.

    I've read forgotten more than most have read... but the point is, i've forgotten stuff.

    Much like w/ exercise and lean tissue, the more that the brain is used and the more information is retrieved from memory... the more remains usable and retrievable.

    Studies show that the process of teaching cements learning.

    So... support the circle.. ask questions.

    If i honestly don't know the answer... I'll admit it lol.

    -CNS

  26. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarface69 View Post
    how do you guys compair oatmeal with oat bran as a carb source?
    bump^^

  27. #627
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    ^^Compared to what?

    Hot pockets?

  28. #628
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    haha, comparing the usual oats with oat bran.

  29. #629
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    ok im having a l little trouble im only up to 190 grams of carbs if a take out the 1/4 of oats from thoes meals should i have day another half cut with my b4 bed cottage cheese and evo or just leave it and bump the protein. i was think that may be to much protein. or could i just add 1/2 cup of oats some where else b4 WO and make it 216 grams of carbs?

  30. #630
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    Hey Narkissos & Novastepp i need some critique on a lean bulk diet i wanted to run
    This is sort of a rough copy of my diet. i want to just get my diet down while i'm on my cycle, my goal is to lean bulk. also i dont remember all the nutritional values so bear with me

    Meal 1
    1 Cup of oatmeal
    1/2 cup of skim milk

    360 cal / 6g fat / 12g Protein / 60g carbs

    Meal 2
    1/2 a boneless skinless chicken breast
    1/2 cup of cooked rice
    1/2 cup of dried red kidney beans

    590 cals/ 4g fat/ 48g Protein / 72g Carbs

    Meal 3
    1/2 a boneless skinless chicken breast
    1/2 cup of cooked rice
    1/2 cup of dried red kidney beans

    590 cals/ 4g fat/ 48g Protein / 72g Carbs

    Meal 4
    1/2 a cup of extra lean ground beef or Steak
    1 tortilla

    580 cals / 19g fat / 26g Protein / 45g carbs

    Meal 5
    1/2 a boneless skinless chicken breast
    1/2cup of cooked rice
    1/2 cup of dried red kidney beans

    590 cals/ 4g fat/ 48g Protein / 72g Carbs


    Meal 6
    2 scoops of whey protein
    2 slices of whole wheat bread

    420 cals/ 7g of fat/ 50g Protein / 56 carbs

    Totals 3200 cals, 42 g of fat, 232 g of Protein, 377g of carbs

    for my salt intake there barely won't be any in meals 1 and 6 but there will be in meals 2,3,4 and 5 and my sugar intake shouldnt be to high. meals 2,4 and 6 will have green veggies in them. i'm also going to limit myself to 2 cheat meals a week
    Last edited by listerine; 09-14-2008 at 01:00 PM.

  31. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by listerine View Post
    Hey Narkissos & Novastepp i need some critique on a lean bulk diet i wanted to run
    This is sort of a rough copy of my diet. i want to just get my diet down while i'm on my cycle, my goal is to lean bulk. also i dont remember all the nutritional values so bear with me

    Meal 1
    1 Cup of oatmeal
    1/2 cup of skim milk

    Meal 2
    1/2 a chicken boneless skinless chicken breast
    1 cup of cooked rice
    1/2 cup of dried red kidney beans

    Meal 3
    1/2 a chicken boneless skinless chicken breast
    1 cup of cooked rice
    1/2 cup of dried red kidney beans

    Meal 4
    1/2 a cup of extra lean ground beef or Steak or Fish
    1 tortilla

    Meal 5
    1/2 a chicken boneless skinless chicken breast
    1 cup of cooked rice
    1/2 cup of dried red kidney beans

    Meal 6
    2 scoops of whey protein
    2 slices of whole wheat bread

    for my salt intake there barely won't be any in meals 1 and 6 but there will be in meals 2,3,4 and 5 and my sugar intake shouldnt be to high. meals 2,4 and 6 will have green veggies in them. i'm also going to limit myself to 2 cheat meals a week
    they are going to need macro's so just edit and post macro's

  32. #632
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    added macros to my diet in post #630

  33. #633
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    Quote Originally Posted by listerine View Post
    Hey Narkissos & Novastepp i need some critique on a lean bulk diet i wanted to run
    This is sort of a rough copy of my diet. i want to just get my diet down while i'm on my cycle, my goal is to lean bulk. also i dont remember all the nutritional values so bear with me

    Meal 1
    1 Cup of oatmeal
    1/2 cup of skim milk

    360 cal / 6g fat / 12g Protein / 60g carbs

    Meal 2
    1/2 a boneless skinless chicken breast
    1/2 cup of cooked rice
    1/2 cup of dried red kidney beans

    590 cals/ 4g fat/ 48g Protein / 72g Carbs

    Meal 3
    1/2 a boneless skinless chicken breast
    1/2 cup of cooked rice
    1/2 cup of dried red kidney beans

    590 cals/ 4g fat/ 48g Protein / 72g Carbs

    Meal 4
    1/2 a cup of extra lean ground beef or Steak
    1 tortilla

    580 cals / 19g fat / 26g Protein / 45g carbs

    Meal 5
    1/2 a boneless skinless chicken breast
    1/2cup of cooked rice
    1/2 cup of dried red kidney beans

    590 cals/ 4g fat/ 48g Protein / 72g Carbs


    Meal 6
    2 scoops of whey protein
    2 slices of whole wheat bread

    420 cals/ 7g of fat/ 50g Protein / 56 carbs

    Totals 3200 cals, 42 g of fat, 232 g of Protein, 377g of carbs

    for my salt intake there barely won't be any in meals 1 and 6 but there will be in meals 2,3,4 and 5 and my sugar intake shouldnt be to high. meals 2,4 and 6 will have green veggies in them. i'm also going to limit myself to 2 cheat meals a week
    Stats?
    Daily Activity?
    Type of Training Engaged in?

  34. #634
    listerine is offline Junior Member
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    Age: 21, Weight: 186, Height: 6"1, BF 10.1%. I don't do so much vigorus other than working out at work i may carry some boxes that arent very heavy. I train 4 days a week i'm targeting my upper muscles more since the lack (except abs) compared to my lower body and ive been trainin for 3.5 years. I want to do a lean bulk diet because i want to stay lean like i am while adding size

  35. #635
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    Deltasaurus is offline The Over Analyzing Nattabolic
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    ok last ? about my diet for a while i hope
    with out writing out everything my dailys are going to be
    220-230 grams of protein
    210-215 grams of carbs
    40-50 grams of fat

    about 25-30 grams of carbs in each meal except PWO ill have 40
    and 24-35 grams of protein each meal except PWO ill have 48
    and as far as fat goes im a little short im my diet so i was gunna have 5grams of evo with meal 1 and PWO and then 12-14grams with my b4 bed meal. is there any problems with any of this ???

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    i almost forgot Nark and Nova i love u guys

  37. #637
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    Quote Originally Posted by A2thej2008 View Post
    ok last ? about my diet for a while i hope
    with out writing out everything my dailys are going to be
    220-230 grams of protein
    210-215 grams of carbs
    40-50 grams of fat

    that sounds good there.

    about 25-30 grams of carbs in each meal except PWO ill have 40
    and 24-35 grams of protein each meal except PWO ill have 48
    and as far as fat goes im a little short im my diet so i was gunna have 5grams of evo with meal 1 and PWO and then 12-14grams with my b4 bed meal. is there any problems with any of this ???
    i don't know about 14g before bed per se. but the rest should be acceptable. the simpler the diet, it seems the easier the cuts, hat has been the case for many in including myself. your macros have really evened out and i know your diet and training will show you results. that's what happens when you work had in the beginning. so do that cardio every morning. lift hard and try and progress often. and keep us updated and let us know if u have any questions along your successful journey.

  38. #638
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    Thank you. -but what should i do with the EVO just even it out through meals?? little here little there?

  39. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by A2thej2008 View Post
    Thank you. -but what should i do with the EVO just even it out through meals?? little here little there?
    no, just use it in those meals you stated. no need to use too much before bed though.

  40. #640
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    so lower my daily fat? or add more to thoes meals? sorry im just kinda confused

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