Free Diet advice by Narkissos & Novastepp: Intro to Performance Nutrition 101

[Narkissos]

This isn't a keto thread... but we'll take a crack at it all the same.

when on keto version that allows some carbs post wo carbs(30g) and thats it with 2 cheat meals and take 16g per meal fats with 45g protein and dropped fat like crazy first two weeks now weight is stuck and kinda feels like alittle fat has come back to mid section is this norma ?

Have you actually monitored your level of ketones?

I'd prefer not to comment further without a reply where this matter is concerned.

fat shifting as bf gets lower maybee? or is the only way to correct by dropping fats and by how much seeings how im 15 lbs lighter than before i started with that ammount? was told to drop to 13 after 3 weeks should i do it now instead(2 weeks)thanks alot bro

You're two weeks in, 15lbs lighter...and now your midsection looks softer?

Have i got that correctly?

If this is the case, I'd say that you're just flat... and that's the likely cause of your looking softer.

-CNS

[Narkissos]

Lemme bump this for a bit while i go into hiding again.

Go Nova!

[novastepp]

I never do fasted state cardio.

Not in the 'first thing in the a.m.' capacity at least.

How low is your BG when you wake in the a.m.?

-C

I don't have a measurement, but I feel fine. I had great success with morning cardio at 60% of my MHR a year or two ago, but I never did it after 8 hours. I was merely asking if you had a rule of thumb. I will occasionally do PWO cardio at 60% MHR, but that's maybe twice a week at most. I'll just continue doing what I've been doing, I was just curious if you had a rule of thumb, but you do none so that's out. haha


oh, and I snuck out, cook your own damn dinner.

[bodybuilder1107]

what is the best ratio for cutting and can u lose 3 pounds of fat a week or strictly stay around 2? and is the harris formula or the mc radle formula more accurate for bmr? mcradle has lean body factor but harris doesnt they are 300 calories difference, and should i figure total body mass for bmr or just the lean body mass, thanks alot

[Deltasaurus]

Katch Mccardle

[bodybuilder1107]

Katch Mccardle

yeah thats the one i didnt have it in front of me so i messed up the spelling just wanted to be sure that was the way to go because it comes out to more calories than with the harris

[xnotoriousx]

Hey guys, thanks for being such a help to people and not being greedy with those brains!!! haha no but really, you're good guys for this thread.

What do you think about this diet i'm on. Just got back into working out after some (Holidays got me) time off. Want to make sure i'm solid.

Age - 24
Height - 6'3
Weight - 190
BF% - 13-16
Goal - gaining muscle mass w/VERY little fat gain


AM CARDIO 30-45 mins - Before leaving home Mix of BCAA and GLUTAMINE w/water

Meal 1
8 Egg Whites 2 whole eggs - Cup of oats

Meal 2
Can of tuna - 2 slices of wheat bread

Meal 3
6oz 93% Lean ground Beef - Cup of brown rice - Cup of Broccoli

Pre W/o N.O Drink - 20g Whey - banana

Post W/o Creatine - 50g Whey - Cup of Oats

Meal 4
5oz turkey/chicken w/cup of brown rice - Tablespoon Flaxseed oil/Fishoil

Meal 5
8oz Salmon - serving(28) of almonds

Meal 6
7 Egg whites 1 whole egg w/broc - 2cups of 2% Milk zzZzZzZZzz 10hrs every night

Protein 363g
Carbs 281g
Fat 110g
Around 3200 CALS

[Matt]

Just a quick one Nark, this may have been asked, if it has then im sorry..
Is it better to eat a pwo meal, or take a pwo shake/gainer??? Are there any studies that support one or the other??

[xnotoriousx]

come on big man, help a brother in need out.

Bump

[mousetraps]

Hey Nark, I read the info about the different types of BMR calculations. When using the HB straight up it leaves me around 2200, but when I use the multiplier of 1.55 (3x week of 45 min lifting) It shows me over 3300 calories.

I feel like I am somewhere in between there. What calculation have you found most accurate for yourself? What do you think I am?

I am 6'1 202lb, 14% bf (thats being generous)

Thank you

Mouse

[novastepp]

what is the best ratio for cutting and can u lose 3 pounds of fat a week or strictly stay around 2? and is the harris formula or the mc radle formula more accurate for bmr? mcradle has lean body factor but harris doesnt they are 300 calories difference, and should i figure total body mass for bmr or just the lean body mass, thanks alot

we addressed this early in the thread. may benefit you to review the thread. possibly some valuable info passed up.

[novastepp]

Hey guys, thanks for being such a help to people and not being greedy with those brains!!! haha no but really, you're good guys for this thread.

What do you think about this diet i'm on. Just got back into working out after some (Holidays got me) time off. Want to make sure i'm solid.

Age - 24
Height - 6'3
Weight - 190
BF% - 13-16
Goal - gaining muscle mass w/VERY little fat gain


AM CARDIO 30-45 mins - Before leaving home Mix of BCAA and GLUTAMINE w/water

Meal 1
8 Egg Whites 2 whole eggs - Cup of oats

Meal 2
Can of tuna - 2 slices of wheat bread

Meal 3
6oz 93% Lean ground Beef - Cup of brown rice - Cup of Broccoli

Pre W/o N.O Drink - 20g Whey - banana

Post W/o Creatine - 50g Whey - Cup of Oats

why not take your creatine before you workout? that's when it would be most beneficial. 10g about 30-40 minutes before your workout.

Meal 4
5oz turkey/chicken w/cup of brown rice - Tablespoon Flaxseed oil/Fishoil

Meal 5
8oz Salmon - serving(28) of almonds

Meal 6
7 Egg whites 1 whole egg w/broc - 2cups of 2% Milk zzZzZzZZzz 10hrs every night

Protein 363g
Carbs 281g
Fat 110g
Around 3200 CALS

for real, without measuring all those macros out, for your size, stats, and goals, i think that diet is MONEY. i would put it to good use, and start NOW. sorry its been a while since i've trolled the diet section, i need to keep up with this thread because it is really a HUGE help. thanks for stopping by.

[novastepp]

Just a quick one Nark, this may have been asked, if it has then im sorry..
Is it better to eat a pwo meal, or take a pwo shake/gainer??? Are there any studies that support one or the other??

i have some studies on my pc, I DO believe I posted them in previous pages. But I can't be sure without going back through and looking. First 4-5 pages have A LOT of corresponding research at which you may want to look.

IMO, I take a shake of 40g whey 40g carbs PWO then I eat another pro/carb meal about an hour after that shake. Some do meals, some do shakes, either way NUTRITION is what really matters.

[novastepp]

this is off subject but nova, you and nark are 2 valuable assets to this board and any other board you 2 post on. your both extremly intelligent and your info. seems to be endless.

thanks a lot PT

[novastepp]

Hey Nark, I read the info about the different types of BMR calculations. When using the HB straight up it leaves me around 2200, but when I use the multiplier of 1.55 (3x week of 45 min lifting) It shows me over 3300 calories.

I feel like I am somewhere in between there. What calculation have you found most accurate for yourself? What do you think I am?

I am 6'1 202lb, 14% bf (thats being generous)

Thank you

Mouse

I use the Katch McArdle formula, it is on page 1 of this thread. Using that formula (by lbm) And a multiplier I have you slightly over 3300 kcals.

Now it depends on what you are trying to accomplish with your diet.

[xnotoriousx]

for real, without measuring all those macros out, for your size, stats, and goals, i think that diet is MONEY. i would put it to good use, and start NOW. sorry its been a while since i've trolled the diet section, i need to keep up with this thread because it is really a HUGE help. thanks for stopping by.

I've been in so much doubt and question, that's exactly what I needed to hear. Thanks man, thanks alot!

[novastepp]

I've been in so much doubt and question, that's exactly what I needed to hear. Thanks man, thanks alot!

over and over i remind folks that the hardest step is actually IMPLEMENTATION of a diet. you can calculate all day long, but believe me. once u find a diet that fits, it's like putting your undies in the freezer on teh 4th of July... ahhhh.

except your ice cubes may begin tasting like fabric softener.

[audis4]

Hello gentlemen (nark & nova)

just wanting your advice

anyhow, I just turned 23 6'2" 270lbs 14%BF

Don't do too much cardio now but I lift 5days a wk like a hardcore bitch!

I calculated that I need about 3,876 cals to maintain my bodyweight and I'm currently taking in about 4,000 cals.

GOALS: get bigger and drop down to 10% BF.

Here's my diet:

meal 1: cals pro carb fat
egg whites 200 46 0 1
1 cup oats 300 10 54 6
meal 2:
egg whites 200 46 0 1
1 cup oats 300 10 54 6
1tbsp pb 105 4 2.5 8
meal 3:
egg whites 200 46 0 1
1 cup oats 300 10 54 6
meal 4:
egg whites 200 40 0 0
1 cup oats 300 10 54 6
1tbsp pb 105 4 2.5 8
meal 5:
egg whites 200 40 0 0
1 cup oats 300 10 54 6
meal 6:
egg whites 200 46 0 1
1 cup oats 300 10 54 6
meal 7:
egg whites 200 46 0 1
1 cup oats 300 10 54 6
meal 8:
1/2 cup CC 80 14 5 0
2 tb PB 210 8 5 16


TOTALS: 4000 410 393 79


btw, tai laughed at how many egg whites I'm taking in

Thanks much guys! I'll get on tonight to see what you say!

[mousetraps]

I use the Katch McArdle formula, it is on page 1 of this thread. Using that formula (by lbm) And a multiplier I have you slightly over 3300 kcals.

Now it depends on what you are trying to accomplish with your diet.

I have eaten 62,736 calories since January 5th, and with a BMR of 3300, that shows that I should have lost a little over 5 lbs. To be honest, I don't know what 5lbs lost looks like, but I know I have lost some fat.

still seems high to me, but I will trust you and put it into my daily log.

Thank you very much

[Matt]

i have some studies on my pc, I DO believe I posted them in previous pages. But I can't be sure without going back through and looking. First 4-5 pages have A LOT of corresponding research at which you may want to look.

IMO, I take a shake of 40g whey 40g carbs PWO then I eat another pro/carb meal about an hour after that shake. Some do meals, some do shakes, either way NUTRITION is what really matters.

Thanks nova.

[novastepp]

[FallenWyvern]

for real, without measuring all those macros out, for your size, stats, and goals, i think that diet is MONEY. i would put it to good use, and start NOW. sorry its been a while since i've trolled the diet section, i need to keep up with this thread because it is really a HUGE help. thanks for stopping by.

You aren't missing much.

[Narkissos]

I have eaten 62,736 calories since January 5th, and with a BMR of 3300, that shows that I should have lost a little over 5 lbs. To be honest, I don't know what 5lbs lost looks like, but I know I have lost some fat.

still seems high to me, but I will trust you and put it into my daily log.

Thank you very much

5lbs of fat lost in 3+ weeks is not 'high'.. it's average.

...assuming that fat-loss (or body re-composition rather) was/is your goal.

62, 736 kcals between jan 5th and 29th = 2614kcals average per day.

Not a 'high' total with the stats that you posted:

6'1 202lb, 14% bf (thats being generous)

Personally I'd like to see a pic to assess your '14%' bodyfat... because LBM is what the KM BMR measurement centers around.

Ergo, one can't state that your kcals are 'high' or 'low' without making reference to your actual bf%... as opposed to your supposed.

Anyway... stick with what you were doing...but work on getting that pic up so you can be better assessed.

-CNS

[Narkissos]

Hello gentlemen (nark & nova)

just wanting your advice

anyhow, I just turned 23 6'2" 270lbs 14%BF

Don't do too much cardio now but I lift 5days a wk like a hardcore bitch!

I calculated that I need about 3,876 cals to maintain my bodyweight and I'm currently taking in about 4,000 cals.

GOALS: get bigger and drop down to 10% BF.

Here's my diet:

meal 1: cals pro carb fat
egg whites 200 46 0 1
1 cup oats 300 10 54 6

meal 2:
egg whites 200 46 0 1
1 cup oats 300 10 54 6
1tbsp pb 105 4 2.5 8

meal 3:
egg whites 200 46 0 1
1 cup oats 300 10 54 6

meal 4:
egg whites 200 40 0 0
1 cup oats 300 10 54 6
1tbsp pb 105 4 2.5 8

meal 5:
egg whites 200 40 0 0
1 cup oats 300 10 54 6

meal 6:
egg whites 200 46 0 1
1 cup oats 300 10 54 6

meal 7:
egg whites 200 46 0 1
1 cup oats 300 10 54 6

meal 8:
1/2 cup CC 80 14 5 0
2 tb PB 210 8 5 16


TOTALS: 4000 410 393 79


btw, tai laughed at how many egg whites I'm taking in

Thanks much guys! I'll get on tonight to see what you say!

Shit.. I remember you posting on RR's board.

That's a motherload of food mate...

btw: your macros listed above don't equal 4000kcals... but rather 3923kcals

That being said:

Ok.. it's a clean diet.

Lots of food.. (I already said that)

Too much of a dependence on certain food choices however.

IMO you're setting yourself up to develop a food allergy.

I've developed a number over the years of competing because of diets like this. i.e. an over dependence on 1-2 protein sources and 1-2 grain/fat sources.

So my advice would be to vary it... either from day to day, or tru-out the day.

re: the volume of eggwhites you're taking in.

I'm assuming you're using liquid eggwhites?

The same applies here.

Awesome protein source.. but you risk developing a food allergy due to the volume and regularity of ingestion.

re: kcals.

I think you need 3840kcals to maintain weight ... so 3923kcals isn't too much of an overshoot... On training days. (BMR + expenditure)

I'd back it down to actual maintenance on non-training days however.

Closer to 3200 on non-training days.

Because your diet is so carb-heavy on training days...and your bodyfat as high as it currently is, I'd back down on the carbs on those days off.

So your intake would look like:

3200 kcals 410pro <>200carb 85gr fat

I'd bump your fiber intake on those days... and all days as well..

Also, I'd add chromium polynicotinate to your supplement regime.

-CNS

[Narkissos]

I have eaten 62,736 calories since January 5th, and with a BMR of 3300, that shows that I should have lost a little over 5 lbs. To be honest, I don't know what 5lbs lost looks like, but I know I have lost some fat.

still seems high to me, but I will trust you and put it into my daily log.

Thank you very much

btw... re: 2614kcals daily average.

I hope you haven't been eating the same amount daily.

[novastepp]

amazing advice Nark!

bumpskie

[audis4]

Shit.. I remember you posting on RR's board.

That's a motherload of food mate...

btw: your macros listed above don't equal 4000kcals... but rather 3923kcals

That being said:

Ok.. it's a clean diet.

Lots of food.. (I already said that)

Too much of a dependence on certain food choices however.

IMO you're setting yourself up to develop a food allergy.

I've developed a number over the years of competing because of diets like this. i.e. an over dependence on 1-2 protein sources and 1-2 grain/fat sources.

So my advice would be to vary it... either from day to day, or tru-out the day.

re: the volume of eggwhites you're taking in.

I'm assuming you're using liquid eggwhites?

The same applies here.

Awesome protein source.. but you risk developing a food allergy due to the volume and regularity of ingestion.

re: kcals.

I think you need 3840kcals to maintain weight ... so 3923kcals isn't too much of an overshoot... On training days. (BMR + expenditure)

I'd back it down to actual maintenance on non-training days however.

Closer to 3200 on non-training days.

Because your diet is so carb-heavy on training days...and your bodyfat as high as it currently is, I'd back down on the carbs on those days off.

So your intake would look like:

3200 kcals 410pro <>200carb 85gr fat

I'd bump your fiber intake on those days... and all days as well..

Also, I'd add chromium polynicotinate to your supplement regime.

-CNS

I appreciate you looking at this nark...as far as the food, I will have a few chicken/tuna meals during the week in place of liquid egg whites and on the weekends I have a much better variety.

I also did just what you said and lowered the cals on non training days; dropped carbs and upped the fats.

Thanks again for looking at my diet bro! I'll let you know how things look

[novastepp]

Audis4, what are your stats these days my friend? you over the 250lb mark yet?

[audis4]

Audis4, what are your stats these days my friend? you over the 250lb mark yet?

hows it going big man....how have things beenn big guy?

well I've been dropping water weight and i try not to go by scale weight but I checked last week and I was 265-270 ish....different on 2 scales. I'm also around 14%BF and need to drop down to around 10 and I'm hoping to keep lifts going up and strong

good to hear from you buddy! Take care and thanks again Nark!!

[novastepp]

hows it going big man....how have things beenn big guy?

well I've been dropping water weight and i try not to go by scale weight but I checked last week and I was 265-270 ish....different on 2 scales. I'm also around 14%BF and need to drop down to around 10 and I'm hoping to keep lifts going up and strong

good to hear from you buddy! Take care and thanks again Nark!!

kiss my ass you beast! good to hear things are going well for you. things are going well for me too. i hope to hear about you doing some comps. in the near future so I can go and witness some destruction!

[audis4]

kiss my ass you beast! good to hear things are going well for you. things are going well for me too. i hope to hear about you doing some comps. in the near future so I can go and witness some destruction!

hahaha no where near where I want to be though!

ya, I don't know, I'm thinking bodybuilding comps in the future but not until I'm completely happy with my body

great to hear things are going well for you too bro, I'll hit you up on pm

[Deltasaurus]

Hey i need some easier diet help now im taking 2 martial art classes Braizilian-JJ and Muay Thai neways im obviously going to have to eat alot more carbs to keep good energy levels, i was going to weight train 3-4days a week still.Im training HIT so i can get in and out quick and still grow,but i dont wanna overtrain so i wanna make sure this sounds ok.
I was thinking like 3150-3300Kcals 200-225Protein 80fat and 400-450carbs? what do u think divided among 8 meals,Higher Carbs according to the meals their needed in.i mean if im traing with weights four days a week and doing cardio thoes days, Then Doing BJJ on top of that for 2 days then soon adding Muay Thai 2 days that should be sufficient im thinking as long as i have enough cals or possibly a surplus.
Then i will have 3 days without any Weights or Martial Arts
Cardio is going to be 2 days steady state run 1 day Sprints 1 day 20-30mins Swimming.

My main fear is Muscle Loss or OverTraining my body, I figure that if i have the proper Amount of Cals plus Rest i should be ok.

Thanks Very Much Also, If this is once again to much to ask A simple "Your Overdoing it" or "That sounds Excellent" would be fine lol, Thanks

Goal is To gain while doing all this, so i may need to eat more.
BTW Lean Body Mass is about 155

-AJ

[novastepp]

Hey i need some easier diet help now im taking 2 martial art classes Braizilian-JJ and Muay Thai neways im obviously going to have to eat alot more carbs to keep good energy levels, i was going to weight train 3-4days a week still.Im training HIT so i can get in and out quick and still grow,but i dont wanna overtrain so i wanna make sure this sounds ok.
I was thinking like 3150-3300Kcals 200-225Protein 80fat and 400-450carbs? what do u think divided among 8 meals,Higher Carbs according to the meals their needed in.i mean if im traing with weights four days a week and doing cardio thoes days, Then Doing BJJ on top of that for 2 days then soon adding Muay Thai 2 days that should be sufficient im thinking as long as i have enough cals or possibly a surplus.
Then i will have 3 days without any Weights or Martial Arts
Cardio is going to be 2 days steady state run 1 day Sprints 1 day 20-30mins Swimming.

My main fear is Muscle Loss or OverTraining my body, I figure that if i have the proper Amount of Cals plus Rest i should be ok.

Thanks Very Much Also, If this is once again to much to ask A simple "Your Overdoing it" or "That sounds Excellent" would be fine lol, Thanks

Goal is To gain while doing all this, so i may need to eat more.
BTW Lean Body Mass is about 155

-AJ

personally i think you have the right idea but i want to ask a couple questions.

how has the diet you are currently using been working?
if it has been working poorly what is wrong?
if it has been working well, what have your gains/successes been?

[Narkissos]

I appreciate you looking at this nark...as far as the food, I will have a few chicken/tuna meals during the week in place of liquid egg whites and on the weekends I have a much better variety.

I also did just what you said and lowered the cals on non training days; dropped carbs and upped the fats.

Thanks again for looking at my diet bro! I'll let you know how things look

Good stuff mate... Keep us in the loop.

[Deltasaurus]

personally i think you have the right idea but i want to ask a couple questions.

how has the diet you are currently using been working?Yes Fairly well
if it has been working poorly what is wrong?The only thing wrong is Hot sauces the sodium adds water and i lost my abs, now working on getting them back i was 170lbs 10% with nice 6pack now im 176 with no 6 pack from 3-4 days of sodium,i fiugre its sodium cuz i was out for 2 weeks and sweating alot then KABLOW i had a 6er
if it has been working well, what have your gains/successes been?Success has been leaning out at an awesome pace, i was jsut impatient, And i do believe that i put on some LBM in the process, Im happy with all my lifts,MY cardio is at an all time high and i look better than i ever have. But i need to be around 170 to have the look i want and the sodium is keeping my about 5-6lbs to heavy, so that i need to fix

Ok this is no BS in BOLD 100% True

[novastepp]

Hey i need some easier diet help now im taking 2 martial art classes Braizilian-JJ and Muay Thai neways im obviously going to have to eat alot more carbs to keep good energy levels, i was going to weight train 3-4days a week still.Im training HIT so i can get in and out quick and still grow,but i dont wanna overtrain so i wanna make sure this sounds ok.
I was thinking like 3150-3300Kcals 200-225Protein 80fat and 400-450carbs? what do u think divided among 8 meals,Higher Carbs according to the meals their needed in.i mean if im traing with weights four days a week and doing cardio thoes days, Then Doing BJJ on top of that for 2 days then soon adding Muay Thai 2 days that should be sufficient im thinking as long as i have enough cals or possibly a surplus.
Then i will have 3 days without any Weights or Martial Arts
Cardio is going to be 2 days steady state run 1 day Sprints 1 day 20-30mins Swimming.

My main fear is Muscle Loss or OverTraining my body, I figure that if i have the proper Amount of Cals plus Rest i should be ok.

Thanks Very Much Also, If this is once again to much to ask A simple "Your Overdoing it" or "That sounds Excellent" would be fine lol, Thanks

Goal is To gain while doing all this, so i may need to eat more.
BTW Lean Body Mass is about 155

-AJ

ok, so you said that your diet is working and that you are looking to merely add martial arts 2-4 days a week. without knowing how intense those activities are going to be, i would advise that you bump your calorie intake slightly (200 or so cals) on those days. and in doing that I mean eating a scheduled normal meal with a little more protein and carbs before and after you train.

so if you eat 300cals at 3 and you train at 4, and eat 300cals again at 5:30...

then eat 400cals at 3, and when you're done training eat again at 5-5:30 but eat 400cals.

those meals can consist of the same foods you normally eat, just a slightly higher volume.

if a diet is working, there isn't a need to change much at all, let the diet work for you. so stick to the plan, eat the foods that work for you, and just up teh cals around your training sessions. that is what i would do.

[Narkissos]

Another happy camper: Update! Nark..Great results!

[novastepp]

Another happy camper: Update! Nark..Great results!

i saw that, way to go Nark.

[xnotoriousx]

It's no suprise to me, i've gained and keep gaining so much from this board and people like you guys, that I can say each month my gains are greater then the last. Best shape of my life.

[novastepp]

It's no suprise to me, i've gained and keep gaining so much from this board and people like you guys, that I can say each month my gains are greater then the last. Best shape of my life.