The Cyclic Ketogenic Diet.....

[Damienm05]

Has anyone noticed that an excessive carb-load cancels out weight loss? My buddy said he ate nothing but junk for 2 days and a ton of cals and says he looks like he gained back several lbs. I told him it's probly just bloat from such a hard cheat but figured I'd check for him. He's been good until now, so who knows.

[Machdiesel]

Hey Guys I have been looking for an all in one drink for the Carb-up days that has maltodextrin/protein without any fructose and finally came across one today. The funny thing is my gym sells it and its been staring me in the face for months now. Its alil expensive but its a big load off my mind just going to the fridge and having a perfect pre-made drink to chug every friday.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/abb/massrecovery.html

[edgarr]

Has anyone noticed that an excessive carb-load cancels out weight loss? My buddy said he ate nothing but junk for 2 days and a ton of cals and says he looks like he gained back several lbs. I told him it's probly just bloat from such a hard cheat but figured I'd check for him. He's been good until now, so who knows.

this is what is confusing. lots of people on hear claim that they gain back more weight then they lose on their carb ups, even if they are strict with the carb ups and dont eat junk and stuff. How can you lose weight when you lose 4 in 5 days and put back on 6 in two days? I know TOP has said it over and over that this diet is not about losing weight it is about losing fat, but for those that need to lose a lot of fat there is now way that can be done without also losing weight.

[HeavyL]

what do you think is going to happen if you eat junk for 2 days straight!!!!!, like Top says the carb up isn't a cheat day.. stay disciplined or your wasting your time

[edgarr]

what do you think is going to happen if you eat junk for 2 days straight!!!!!, like Top says the carb up isn't a cheat day.. stay disciplined or your wasting your time

Maybe you misunderstood me. I am not eating junk. However if you read other post and I can tell you from my own experience that even eating good clean carbs on carb up days will let you put on more weight (maybe not BF) then you lost during the week.

So my point is two fold.

1. I would think that in order to lose BF quickly one would also need to lose weight, maybe this applys more to those that are 15% or higher. I am no expert but sharing what I have experienced.

2. My body might not like fats therefore I am not losing weight. This is possible. I am down in BF % and yes I do look better but how much of that is due to the workouts and cardio?? I will never know unless I try another diet. I will stick this out for maybe 12 weeks (four more) and then compare a 40/40/20 diet for 12 weeks.

People like MG1228 and fireguy don't follow this diet, is that because they cut better with carbs???

[baddgsx]

Hey Guys I have been looking for an all in one drink for the Carb-up days that has maltodextrin/protein without any fructose and finally came across one today. The funny thing is my gym sells it and its been staring me in the face for months now. Its alil expensive but its a big load off my mind just going to the fridge and having a perfect pre-made drink to chug every friday.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/abb/massrecovery.html

Nice!!!!! Thanx for this info. I'm going to order some today. You order from this site? I need a site that offers fast shipping to new England ct.

[Machdiesel]

Discount supps has it for cheaper, just click the banner at the top if the page.

[edgarr]

Hey Guys I have been looking for an all in one drink for the Carb-up days that has maltodextrin/protein without any fructose and finally came across one today. The funny thing is my gym sells it and its been staring me in the face for months now. Its alil expensive but its a big load off my mind just going to the fridge and having a perfect pre-made drink to chug every friday.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/abb/massrecovery.html

my problem with drinking meals is I never feel full giving the ability to eat more. I good way to speed up the carb load is using fruit, milk, juice, bagels, etc. Those make feel feel fuller.

[Machdiesel]

The first 4 and last 4 meals should be liquid for the refeed, for the rest I use bagels,pasta and cereal

[edgarr]

The first 4 and last 4 meals should be liquid for the refeed, for the rest I use bagels,pasta and cereal

So would you use the same drink as above for you last 4 meals or would drinking whey and oats be better?

This is where I think this is very debatable. Why spike your insulin levels that drastic, especially the last 4 meals. Wouldn't a slower digesting carb such as sweet potatos, brown rice, etc be better for those last 4 meals?

[**TOP**]

Hey guys sorry ive been MIA. I had to be somewhere for work for a week and then i came back and im trying to close on some real estate. Hopefully everything will be back to normal soon...TOP

[energizer bunny]

good to have you back mate!!

[**TOP**]

my problem with drinking meals is I never feel full giving the ability to eat more. I good way to speed up the carb load is using fruit, milk, juice, bagels, etc. Those make feel feel fuller.

watch drinking juice and fruit its loaded with fructose and sucrose this tends to focus on refilling liver glycogen,not what we want!

[**TOP**]

good to have you back mate!!

Thanks BUUUUUUUUUDY. Hows your diet coming?

[**TOP**]

Half way through my 2nd week on the diet. Looking forward to the gym today. So far no strength loss on my Monday workout. I can already see that i am more vascular and i can see more definition in my abs. On my carb load days i have been taking allot of Metamucil as a part of the carb load to make sure i am regular and it is working well.

This is what i like to see! Sounds as if you are doing everything correct.

If its done correctly you will not lose any strength! I have actually watched a few guys get stronger as they have lost weight. all due to the 3 day carb load priming the body for ultimate utilization!

[energizer bunny]

well mate, i think i do better on fats than carbs.....i feel great during the week and sickly when i do the carb load lol......i dont weigh myself so i just go off the mirror and peoples coments...and both are good..

[danielli]

Hey Guys I have been looking for an all in one drink for the Carb-up days that has maltodextrin/protein without any fructose and finally came across one today. The funny thing is my gym sells it and its been staring me in the face for months now. Its alil expensive but its a big load off my mind just going to the fridge and having a perfect pre-made drink to chug every friday.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/abb/massrecovery.html

How does it taste?

[edgarr]

watch drinking juice and fruit its loaded with fructose and sucrose this tends to focus on refilling liver glycogen,not what we want!

I've been using these in the first few meals, mostly fruit, milk and bagels. Never in my last meals. Should I stop?

[**TOP**]

i've been using these in the first few meals, mostly fruit, milk and bagels. Never in my last meals. Should i stop?

i would pull the fruit out,and also only use skim milk during carb load to avoid extra fat.

[americanoak]

So I found this:

"""

Duration and Amount of Carb Load
Arguably the two most critical aspects of a successful carb-load are the duration of the carb-load and the total amount of carbohydrates consumed during this time period. In brief, to achieve optimal glycogen levels, both the duration of the carb-load and the amount of carbs eaten must be correct. The rate limiting step in glycogen resynthesis appears to be activity of the enzymes involved in glycogen synthesis (1). Regardless of carbohydrate intake, there is a maximal amount of glycogen which can be synthesized in a given amount of time. That is to say, consuming all of your carbohydrates in a 4 hour time span, with the goal of returning to ketogenic eating that much sooner, will not work. Only when the proper amount of carbohydrates is consumed over a sufficient period of time, can glycogen compensation and/or supercompensation occur. Following exhaustive exercise and full glycogen depletion, glycogen can be resynthesized to 100% of normal levels (roughly 100-110 mmol/kg) within 24 hours as long as sufficient amounts of carbohydrate are consumed (1,2). Assuming full depletion of the involved muscles, the amount of carbohydrate needed during this time period is 8-10 grams of carbohydrate per kilogram of lean body mass (8-10 g/kg). With 36 hours of carb-loading, roughly 150% compensation can occur, reaching levels of 150-160 mmol/kg of muscle glycogen. To achieve greater levels of muscle glycogen than this (175 mmol/kg or more) generally requires 3-4 days of high carbohydrate eating following exhaustive exercise (3). It should be noted that carb-loading has primarily been studies following endurance training, not weight training and there may be differences in how the body handles carbs following weight training. The first 6 hours after training appear to be the most critical as enzyme activity and resynthesis rates are the highest, around 12 mmol/kg/hour (4). Following weight training, with a carbohydrate intake of 1.5 grams carbohydrate/kg lean body mass taken immediately after training and again 2 hours later, a total of 44 mmol/kg can be resynthesized (4). Over the the first 24 hours, the average rate of glycogen resynthesis ranges from 5-12 mmol/kg/hour depending on the type of exercise performed (5). In general, aerobic exercise shows the lowest rate of glycogen resynthesis (2-8 mmol/kg/hour), weight training the second highest (1.3-11 mmol/kg/hour), and sprint training the highest (15 to 33.6 mmol/kg/hour). (5,6). The reason that glycogen resynthesis is lower after weight training than after sprint training may be related to the amount of lactic acid generated as well as the muscle damage that typically occurs during weight training (5). At an average rate of 5 mmol/kg /hour, approximately 120 mmol/kg of glycogen can be synthesized over 24 hours. This can be achieved with the consumption of 50 grams or more of carbohydrate every 2 hours during the first 24 hours after training. Intake of greater than 50 grams of carbohydrate does not appear to increase the rate of glycogen synthesis. Over 24 hours, at 50 grams per 2 hours, this yields 600 grams of carbohydrates total to maximize glycogen resynthesis. These values are for a 154 pound (70 kilogram) person. Significantly heavier or lighter individuals will need proportionally more or less carbohydrate. Simply keep the value of 8-10 grams of carbohydrate per kilogram of lean body mass as a guide. In the second 24 hours, glycogen resynthesis rates decrease (1) and a carbohydrate intake of 5 grams/kg is recommended to further refill muscle glycogen stores while minimizing the chance of fat gain. For many individuals, the small amount of additional glycogen resynthesis which occurs during the second 24 hours of carbohydrate loading is not worth the risk of regaining some of the bodyfat which was lost during the preceding week.
"""

The last part is the most important part to me, because i am going to start this diet soon and am not sure if i should have just one or two carb up days. I read the bodypus book and I know it says from friday post workout till mid of sunday, but if i can get full supercompensation by midnight on saturday, why should i continue it on sunday?

If i wasnt going to continue it on sunday how would my diet look? Start the keto process on sunday and go untill friday workout then carbload?

[**TOP**]

So I found this:


If i wasnt going to continue it on sunday how would my diet look? Start the keto process on sunday and go untill friday workout then carbload?

Yes it would give you an additional day of keto although your strength may suffer...TOP

[HeavyL]

Alternatives to liquid carbs.. What would be the next best option for your first 4 and last 4 meals during carb up?

[Damienm05]

Alternatives to liquid carbs.. What would be the next best option for your first 4 and last 4 meals during carb up?

white potatoes, rice, Italian bread, baguette, bagels would be pretty close.

[HeavyL]

thanks Damienm05, usually i ust count carbs for my carb up and don't care which ones they are. so your saying these high GI carbs should be after workout and right when finishing my carb up

[edgarr]

Week 9 update......weigh in upon awaking up...up 3 lbs!! Back to 180lbs. No cheat meals all week. Ate same thing everyday same workouts and cardio and even added clen on Wed. Tonight I start the carb load.

[energizer bunny]

Week 9 update......weigh in upon awaking up...up 3 lbs!! Back to 180lbs. No cheat meals all week. Ate same thing everyday same workouts and cardio and even added clen on Wed. Tonight I start the carb load.

did you measure bodyfat?.......are you looking better?

[edgarr]

did you measure bodyfat?.......are you looking better?

I measured 4 weeks ago, will try to do again soon................look better??? Yes, for some reason this week I look bloated thou, I look better then I did 10 weeks ago before diet and working out but how much of that is due to the workout and how much due to the diet???? I hear of people not even working out losing lbs and lbs.

Oh, for what its worth, I pissed on a keto stick yesterday and according to that I'm in ketosis, besides I feel the normal effects of being in Ketosis.

[sixxer]

I thought <100g of carbs a day would result in ketosis. Why restrict them to <30g?

[baddgsx]

Has anyone tried bulking on this diet by adding 500 more calories than your tdee? Im contiplating on what my bulking diet will be.


Thanks,

Chris

[gbrice75]

Has anyone tried bulking on this diet by adding 500 more calories than your tdee? Im contiplating on what my bulking diet will be.


Thanks,

Chris

I thought about doing it in the near future, but IMO carbs become alot more crucial when it comes to bulking. I am going to run another 40/40/20 diet but with surplus calories/day in hopes of putting on lean mass. I will be keeping the diet super clean to hopefully minimize bodyfat gains.

[edgarr]

Has anyone tried bulking on this diet by adding 500 more calories than your tdee? Im contiplating on what my bulking diet will be.


Thanks,

Chris

Based on my results, I think that if I ate at TDEE or higher I would bulk like crazy!!

[**TOP**]

Based on my results, I think that if I ate at TDEE or higher I would bulk like crazy!!

Its been done and has worked for many. It helps you bulk while limiting bodyfat gain.

[edgarr]

^^^ problem is I am trying to cut!

So would it be a good idea to have a couple pieces of fruit before my workout tonight which then I start carb loading right after? Should I skip the post workout LIT cardio and just have my first liquid carb load meal?

[**TOP**]

^^^ problem is I am trying to cut!

So would it be a good idea to have a couple pieces of fruit before my workout tonight which then I start carb loading right after? Should I skip the post workout LIT cardio and just have my first liquid carb load meal?

Have the fruit and its up to you for the cardio.

[energizer bunny]

i have a banana and snickers bar before my training tonight....well in a few hours...get in!!!!

[gbrice75]

i have a banana and snickers bar before my training tonight....well in a few hours...get in!!!!

^^ OMG a Snickers bar!!! Bad boy!!! That sounds GREAT - I just want some M&M's but haven't gone off the deep end THAT much yet.

[energizer bunny]

^^ OMG a Snickers bar!!! Bad boy!!! That sounds GREAT - I just want some M&M's but haven't gone off the deep end THAT much yet.

LOL.....there is a reason for this, but i cant remember exactly, maybe TOP can chime in?

[energizer bunny]

banana and snickers are fully loaded with fructose and sucrose which will kick me out of ketosis and let me drain liver glycogen further before my workout....

[edgarr]

banana and snickers are fully loaded with fructose and sucrose which will kick me out of ketosis and let me drain liver glycogen further before my workout....

do you replace one of your normal Keto meals with this? Normally I eat a pro/fat meal about an hour before work out. Should I inculde the snicker and fruit or replace it with it?

[energizer bunny]

do you replace one of your normal Keto meals with this? Normally I eat a pro/fat meal about an hour before work out. Should I inculde the snicker and fruit or replace it with it?

best off waiting for TOP.............but i normally have my keto meal earlier, today i had cod, then an hour-45 mins before training i have the snicker and banana.......today i fuked up and eat far to close, like 20 mins before and i felt ill all through my session! lol