Chinese HGH concerns

[Sheven]

I agree, there is enough information and experience from all over the world on this board regarding the quality of generics and even some pharm grade manufacturers. Once suspicion is there it can breed but results is where it counts and many who have used quality pharm grade hgh and generics for many years understands and knows how your body reacts and its as clear as black and white with these guys that the Chinese are not trustworthy and your playing roulette when you buy from them. Even with Ankibio you go direct and they started to sell underdosed,fakes and came out with all sorts rubbish with the reasons why, they even sent me and Ronnie some free hgh to keep us quiet on the boards, stop the rumours of them selling fakes and also stop the company getting emails asking about quality all because of this board and a guy who had a blood test from ProM what showed zero improvement in his numbers. Just goes to show you if they can what are the generic compaines doing when the only prize for these guys is money.



Ive been burnt from some serious sources and I also legit companies and they is only a certain amount of times you keep going back to get burnt. They are that far infront with knwoledge and scamming the underground market we have no idea what they are putting in their hgh to produce all these water retaining results, or estrogen rebound once you stop or other strange side effects what many think are great results. Facts are if you have used pharm grade for a good length of time at a good solid dose you know what real hgh does and how you react and for those guys they never go back to the Chinese market because they know.We can debate till the cows come home and most will carry on buying the generics and thats fine but no one will change my mind especially anyone sat in China or anyone else to that matter because Ive used enough hgh to know something is seriously wrong with many of Chinese hgh manufacturers especially the generic market.

for most part of what you say i totally agree. especially regaring ankebio.

but what about jintropin? did you ever tried it at least before the 08' olympics? another good rep. product was dr. lin **********, i heard of many people glad with that product. what you think about this two products? one is made by a reputable company one is ugl. dr lin worked in gensci for few years (and no, he wasn't a janitor)

one thing i know for sure is that hgh should not give bloat, maybe very few days when starting and using a big dose but afterwards it must all ware off. here is where the problem comes in place. many many users mostly the unexperienced ones are boasting the hgh brands that are making them gain weight on hgh. after 2-3 weeks they're already "bigger" and their very happy with that. with real hgh in 2 weeks you feel almost nothing, and maybe here is where the whole bloating scheme comes in. i'm pretty sure no manufacturer is cutting its purity or dosage because of commercial purposes since their manufacturing cost is like 30% of the end market price. if they are cutting dosage to half their are increasing their profit with approximately 15%. that makes no business sense. so why would some manufacturers make their hgh bloat? maybe they put something in that increases water-retention so that the foolish users can feel for the whole "getting bigger" thing. its obvious the market-size is big and the people that really know what real hgh is is very very small, so the random user is using growth hormone just for the whole "growth" idea, they think they'll turn into Coleman in few hgh cycles. from what i'm reading on few forums that seems to be the case, otherwise why would people go and buy that shit IPChina is selling or other guys like that? people selling high bloating so called hgh should go off the market in few months because they would never have repetitive customers, if the customers would really know what to expect. since they don't, they keep buying that shit thinking is real hgh. so like i've said, the problem is the users not the manufacturers. chinese have been making shit raw materials (for steroids ) for years, but when the market got smarter and the middleman started analyzing, they rapidly increase the purity and reduced drastically the contaminants. i don't think they did that in the users best interest, they did that because they would have gone off the market.

[calstate23]

I just find it hard to believe there will ever be manufacturers making pharm grade hgh...For a long time at least....

They realize making a high quality product would make more money in the long run but it is near impossible to do that in the black market for 2 reasons...If they make high quality hgh and everyone wants their "brand" it would be hard to not only keep up with HIGH QUALITY production but it also increases their chances of getting shut down...

They can't just make the BEST hgh product known to every underground bodybuilder on the planet...Their name becomes to big and to much attention...They are like Nomads...Pack up and move production, switch name and everything else...Moving and starting production all over again EVEN if it's the same Quality product is just to much work and money...

So honestly, don't think it is all because they are just trying to RIP people off...It is the way it has to be done...If it was possible to make a high quality product FOR LONG PERIODS of time they would do it believe me...But it is what it is, making and selling illegal drugs...

That is why there is SOMETIMES a good product that does come out as they have wrestled with the idea of creating a buzz....What makes more money?? Creating a high quality product that spreads their name out there fast, make their money and then bounce?? Or just make bunk product blast the web and word of mouth bull shit and do the same thing??

Furthermore, there is manufacturers that can and do make high quality product...But stay private and sell to small group of people...Aka private manufacturers supporting the Top elite sports athletes where everything is HUSH HUSH in the first place...That is the only time HIGH QUALITY hgh and other products are made illegally for long periods of time...

[swithuk]

I just find it hard to believe there will ever be manufacturers making pharm grade hgh...For a long time at least....

They realize making a high quality product would make more money in the long run but it is near impossible to do that in the black market for 2 reasons...If they make high quality hgh and everyone wants their "brand" it would be hard to not only keep up with HIGH QUALITY production but it also increases their chances of getting shut down...

They can't just make the BEST hgh product known to every underground bodybuilder on the planet...Their name becomes to big and to much attention...They are like Nomads...Pack up and move production, switch name and everything else...Moving and starting production all over again EVEN if it's the same Quality product is just to much work and money...

So honestly, don't think it is all because they are just trying to RIP people off...It is the way it has to be done...If it was possible to make a high quality product FOR LONG PERIODS of time they would do it believe me...But it is what it is, making and selling illegal drugs...

That is why there is SOMETIMES a good product that does come out as they have wrestled with the idea of creating a buzz....What makes more money?? Creating a high quality product that spreads their name out there fast, make their money and then bounce?? Or just make bunk product blast the web and word of mouth bull shit and do the same thing??

Furthermore, there is manufacturers that can and do make high quality product...But stay private and sell to small group of people...Aka private manufacturers supporting the Top elite sports athletes where everything is HUSH HUSH in the first place...That is the only time HIGH QUALITY hgh and other products are made illegally for long periods of time...

i totally agree with what you say with regards to these generics and ugl's....

however iam interested to know whats your view of gensci and ankebio as surely they differ in as much as they have invested millions , have established facilities and are on the stock market ......

[calstate23]

i totally agree with what you say with regards to these generics and ugl's....

however iam interested to know whats your view of gensci and ankebio as surely they differ in as much as they have invested millions , have established facilities and are on the stock market ......

Even with licenses from the Chinese government you still have the problem of exporting the product out...Then the issue again becomes are you getting legit product?

Then you also have the issue of everyone else in the game trying to make money off the other guy and fake a brand...

I just don't see there being a no fail way to create top quality product over and over consistently without any issues unless you are part of the small elite group I talk about....When EVERYONE has something to lose that's why hush hush make all the money...Consistent over and over...Same buyers, same people...True money flow where both sides can be trusted..

[marcus300]

for most part of what you say i totally agree. especially regaring ankebio.

but what about jintropin? did you ever tried it at least before the 08' olympics? another good rep. product was dr. lin **********, i heard of many people glad with that product. what you think about this two products? one is made by a reputable company one is ugl. dr lin worked in gensci for few years (and no, he wasn't a janitor)

one thing i know for sure is that hgh should not give bloat, maybe very few days when starting and using a big dose but afterwards it must all ware off. here is where the problem comes in place. many many users mostly the unexperienced ones are boasting the hgh brands that are making them gain weight on hgh. after 2-3 weeks they're already "bigger" and their very happy with that. with real hgh in 2 weeks you feel almost nothing, and maybe here is where the whole bloating scheme comes in. i'm pretty sure no manufacturer is cutting its purity or dosage because of commercial purposes since their manufacturing cost is like 30% of the end market price. if they are cutting dosage to half their are increasing their profit with approximately 15%. that makes no business sense. so why would some manufacturers make their hgh bloat? maybe they put something in that increases water-retention so that the foolish users can feel for the whole "getting bigger" thing. its obvious the market-size is big and the people that really know what real hgh is is very very small, so the random user is using growth hormone just for the whole "growth" idea, they think they'll turn into Coleman in few hgh cycles. from what i'm reading on few forums that seems to be the case, otherwise why would people go and buy that shit IPChina is selling or other guys like that? people selling high bloating so called hgh should go off the market in few months because they would never have repetitive customers, if the customers would really know what to expect. since they don't, they keep buying that shit thinking is real hgh. so like i've said, the problem is the users not the manufacturers. chinese have been making shit raw materials (for steroids) for years, but when the market got smarter and the middleman started analyzing, they rapidly increase the purity and reduced drastically the contaminants. i don't think they did that in the users best interest, they did that because they would have gone off the market.

The jins pre Olympics were very good infact everyone I
know always comments on the old jins how good and reliable they were. Ive
also had great feedback regarding the Russian/Ukraine jins what Gensi are
producing these days, I've not bought any myself yet but many of my friends
have and some guys from this board and I've not heard any bad feedback
or strange sides, infact the feedback I've got sounds like the old jins
pre Olympics times. I still would like to test them myself but I am very
confident that the Russian Jins are 100% and I cant wait to try them. The
other make you mentioned was censored for some reason but the problems
only seem to come about after the Olympics and then all the generic companies
saw a good underground market to supply and things went down hill them.

I agree and we both know that HGH shouldn't cause bloat and results are
not seen in 2-3 wks and that's how many are conned because they size increase
or in some cases weight loss as results and gains but infact real hgh doesn't
produce these types of results in such a short period of time. I personally
don't think the generic companies are cutting the dosages by 30/50% because
I believe they don't contain hgh but other chemicals what produce these
horrible sides so they not increasing their profits by 15% by cutting dosages
they are having 100% profit because they are supplying the underground
market with dangerous chemicals and not hgh.From what I've seen and heard
they don't all contain the same thing some have these dangerous chemicals
and other nothing and some have peptides but I really don't think they
contain any watered down hgh at all and the lab reports some posts are
bullshit. I've seen and experience many different sides from bloat to weight
loss and to estrogen decrease to rebound and from looking over the feedback
from members all over the forums you can see this clearly and in all honesty
I've used hgh long enough to know what is real and what isn't. I totally
agree regarding the whole people buying more because of the bloat or some
kind of results in the 2-3 mark, you can see it all over the sponsored
web site, fake accounts spreading stupid results and false lab claims to
suck new customers in. I can't believe alot of these guys don't know what
goes on with these sponsored boards and hgh sales, its laughable.

When you get a legit company like Ankbio trying to buy
me off with free hgh to keep quiet about my claims you can sniff something
is seriously wrong in China and the hgh market and the hgh I got from them
was so powerful and overdosed I am sure 4 ius was 8ius. So if they can
produce and give to me overdosed hgh to keep my quiet and it wasn't just
me who they did this too but Ronnie also they sure can produce watered
down hgh but as far as the generic companies go I think they produce nothing
like hgh but other stuff what mimics the same sides or something dangerous.
The educated guys who have used pharm grade for any length of time at a
good solid dose what produces tissue and promotes fat loss will and does
know the difference between generics and pharm is as plain as black and
white. The Chinese are not to be trusted just look at what they do to their
own people regarding drugs, foods and chemicals, they are ruthless and
they have seen a market and like you said we carry on buying it so they
will carry on producing it but eventually I either think many people are
going to have health issues or something is going to crack in another area
but they are not to be trusted.

I use to be very passionate about
this issues over the years but alot of the time I see someone praising
their rips,kigs or coloured tops and these great results I just click
off the thread and move on because its not worth arguing over the same
old stuff, they wont listen because they have blinkers on with these so
called results so all what's going to happen is a huge debate with me repeating
myself over and over again because no matter what anyone says hey wont
believe me. I trust my own experience than anyone else regarding hgh and
to me like many other guys who have used proper stuff know the Chinese
are flooding the market with this crap.

[EasyDoesIt]

I agree and we both know that HGH shouldn't cause bloat and results are
not seen in 2-3 wks and that's how many are conned because they size increase
or in some cases weight loss as results and gains but infact real hgh doesn't
produce these types of results in such a short period of time. I personally
don't think the generic companies are cutting the dosages by 30/50% because
I believe they don't contain hgh but other chemicals what produce these
horrible sides so they not increasing their profits by 15% by cutting dosages
they are having 100% profit because they are supplying the underground
market with dangerous chemicals and not hgh.From what I've seen and heard
they don't all contain the same thing some have these dangerous chemicals
and other nothing and some have peptides but I really don't think they
contain any watered down hgh at all and the lab reports some posts are
bullshit. I've seen and experience many different sides from bloat to weight
loss and to estrogen decrease to rebound and from looking over the feedback
from members all over the forums you can see this clearly and in all honesty
I've used hgh long enough to know what is real and what isn't. I totally
agree regarding the whole people buying more because of the bloat or some
kind of results in the 2-3 mark, you can see it all over the sponsored
web site, fake accounts spreading stupid results and false lab claims to
suck new customers in. I can't believe alot of these guys don't know what
goes on with these sponsored boards and hgh sales, its laughable.

I use to be very passionate about
this issues over the years but alot of the time I see someone praising
their rips,kigs or coloured tops and these great results I just click
off the thread and move on because its not worth arguing over the same
old stuff, they wont listen because they have blinkers on with these so
called results so all what's going to happen is a huge debate with me repeating
myself over and over again because no matter what anyone says hey wont
believe me. I trust my own experience than anyone else regarding hgh and
to me like many other guys who have used proper stuff know the Chinese
are flooding the market with this crap.

I don't believe they are under dosing the HGH, it's a huge business and not like making under dosed test or spiking deca with a little test and no deca, so the user feels something. It's flat out fake. The thread is repetitive and i also feel one day someone is going to get a batch that causes serious damage and will be hospitalized. Most people have sides just weird enough to tolerate and quit taking. When serious damage occurs, the products will be looked at harder and crack down on at least for awhile. If you have been on this thread for awhile and know about the fake HGH, you are only enabling a new person reading this, by wanting more investigation, testing etc. Move forward and place your energy into finding real pharm grade or not take the product until you can find real. But this thread keeps getting re started about the same issues. "How can we convince ourselves it's real"? IT'S NOT! If the Russian jins are good, they are an exception and not Chinese. There are new people joining this seeking knowledge, so they may be influenced in the wrong direction, by what is said here.

[marcus300]

I don't believe they are under dosing the HGH, it's a huge business and not like making under dosed test or spiking deca with a little test and no deca, so the user feels something. It's flat out fake. The thread is repetitive and i also feel one day someone is going to get a batch that causes serious damage and will be hospitalized. Most people have sides just weird enough to tolerate and quit taking. When serious damage occurs, the products will be looked at harder and crack down on at least for awhile. If you have been on this thread for awhile and know about the fake HGH, you are only enabling a new person reading this, by wanting more investigation, testing etc. Move forward and place your energy into finding real pharm grade or not take the product until you can find real. But this thread keeps getting re started about the same issues. "How can we convince ourselves it's real"? IT'S NOT! If the Russian jins are good, they are an exception and not Chinese. There are new people joining this seeking knowledge, so they may be influenced in the wrong direction, by what is said here.

I think this thread shows the right direction but many won't listen and still think their source is 100% lol...

[EasyDoesIt]

I think this thread shows the right direction but many won't listen and still think their source is 100% lol...

I guess so, the day they take a batch bad enough to cause serious damage, there will be cause for a real investigation and it won't be by the people on this board. Most people feeling sick blow it off and really are not going to tell there doc. But a serious problem and they will have to.

[Far from massive]

One quick question. I have never done any pharma HGG but would like to know, real HGH is said to cause changes in sleep, vivid dreams, etc.

My question to those of you who have done real pharma HGH how long do the changes in sleep take to show themselves.

PS I know that there are likely a ton of chems that could mimice these changes so using this as a diagnostic tool would be a fools mission. So don't worry that is not why I am asking.

[swithuk]

i think this is the best thread on here

i think ugl's cant produce g.h . thats the whole point . its fairly easy and inexpensive to do what they do so thats why they do it . in my mind generics cant be real g.h , ever . because its impossible for these places to really make it

[Sheven]

I just find it hard to believe there will ever be manufacturers making pharm grade hgh...For a long time at least....

They realize making a high quality product would make more money in the long run but it is near impossible to do that in the black market for 2 reasons...If they make high quality hgh and everyone wants their "brand" it would be hard to not only keep up with HIGH QUALITY production but it also increases their chances of getting shut down...

They can't just make the BEST hgh product known to every underground bodybuilder on the planet...Their name becomes to big and to much attention...They are like Nomads...Pack up and move production, switch name and everything else...Moving and starting production all over again EVEN if it's the same Quality product is just to much work and money...

So honestly, don't think it is all because they are just trying to RIP people off...It is the way it has to be done...If it was possible to make a high quality product FOR LONG PERIODS of time they would do it believe me...But it is what it is, making and selling illegal drugs...

That is why there is SOMETIMES a good product that does come out as they have wrestled with the idea of creating a buzz....What makes more money?? Creating a high quality product that spreads their name out there fast, make their money and then bounce?? Or just make bunk product blast the web and word of mouth bull shit and do the same thing??

Furthermore, there is manufacturers that can and do make high quality product...But stay private and sell to small group of people...Aka private manufacturers supporting the Top elite sports athletes where everything is HUSH HUSH in the first place...That is the only time HIGH QUALITY hgh and other products are made illegally for long periods of time...

way to many assumptions in your post. if a manufacturer can make high quality (lets say 95%) its not hard at all to keep the same quality always. gensci has done it for the last decade or so, other's can do it also. gensci had tens of engineers that left the company and went south, that's how most of the UGL hgh factories got built. don't forget hgh is made out of a bacteria, the whole manufacturing process is not that expensive, the technology to manufacture it (how to manufacture it) and the machines cost. once you got that in place, making hgh is just a small portion of the cost. the factories selling legit hgh make way more money than the once that scam people, the once that scam people are the middle-man buying some GHRP-6 or some AI and ask a company that owns a lyphilizer to pack them for him. a factory that spent 800.000$ on the tehnology and 1.2$mil on the machines won't find themself filling the vials with ghrp-6 or other fake shit, why go all the effort to have hgh capabilities and then do some shit products?

i'd define the situation as following: most of the products on the market are in fact brands and products pushed by middleman and internet sellers that manufacture their vials in factories that can do freeze drying (using all sort of chemicals mostly peptides and metylprednisolone) . other big part of goods are products ordered by middleman from decent hgh factories but they order 4iu vial and then label them and sell them as 8 or 10iu. dr. lin product for example was ugl and has been good for years, everybody happy with him and no bloat, but keep in mind that he had a tight control on his sales team and they were selling exactly his product not what they wanted.

[alex18]

One quick question. I have never done any pharma HGG but would like to know, real HGH is said to cause changes in sleep, vivid dreams, etc.

My question to those of you who have done real pharma HGH how long do the changes in sleep take to show themselves.

PS I know that there are likely a ton of chems that could mimice these changes so using this as a diagnostic tool would be a fools mission. So don't worry that is not why I am asking.

i notice within the first 2 days - awesome sleep and awesome dreams!

[calstate23]

way to many assumptions in your post. if a manufacturer can make high quality (lets say 95%) its not hard at all to keep the same quality always. gensci has done it for the last decade or so, other's can do it also. gensci had tens of engineers that left the company and went south, that's how most of the UGL hgh factories got built. don't forget hgh is made out of a bacteria, the whole manufacturing process is not that expensive, the technology to manufacture it (how to manufacture it) and the machines cost. once you got that in place, making hgh is just a small portion of the cost. the factories selling legit hgh make way more money than the once that scam people, the once that scam people are the middle-man buying some GHRP-6 or some AI and ask a company that owns a lyphilizer to pack them for him. a factory that spent 800.000$ on the tehnology and 1.2$mil on the machines won't find themself filling the vials with ghrp-6 or other fake shit, why go all the effort to have hgh capabilities and then do some shit products?

i'd define the situation as following: most of the products on the market are in fact brands and products pushed by middleman and internet sellers that manufacture their vials in factories that can do freeze drying (using all sort of chemicals mostly peptides and metylprednisolone) . other big part of goods are products ordered by middleman from decent hgh factories but they order 4iu vial and then label them and sell them as 8 or 10iu. dr. lin product for example was ugl and has been good for years, everybody happy with him and no bloat, but keep in mind that he had a tight control on his sales team and they were selling exactly his product not what they wanted.

Because it really doesn't matter what they do...It could be baby powder for anyone knows and people will buy it...With all the bb forums and global internet access it's easy for many people to sell bogus products...

Even if someone had a quality product it wouldn't matter because the market will kill them with fakes and such other crap..Whether it's fake or not people get their vials and boxes with labels on it and if it's bunk it spreads fast...Then, even if quality product people are saying it bunk...

That is what I'm talking about...No one can get consistency with the global market because whether product good or bad they will get screwed...

For example, rips....Everyone and their grandma talking about rips how good they are and such...Even in my town I heard people talking about them...Once word spreads of the so called rips that are killer every other site is know selling "rips" and every other scammer going to sell wack ass product and call them rips..

Even then sell poop in a jar to younger guys because they heard about rips too...It's the internet which killed the market..

[Sheven]

Because it really doesn't matter what they do...It could be baby powder for anyone knows and people will buy it...With all the bb forums and global internet access it's easy for many people to sell bogus products...

Even if someone had a quality product it wouldn't matter because the market will kill them with fakes and such other crap..Whether it's fake or not people get their vials and boxes with labels on it and if it's bunk it spreads fast...Then, even if quality product people are saying it bunk...

That is what I'm talking about...No one can get consistency with the global market because whether product good or bad they will get screwed...

For example, rips....Everyone and their grandma talking about rips how good they are and such...Even in my town I heard people talking about them...Once word spreads of the so called rips that are killer every other site is know selling "rips" and every other scammer going to sell wack ass product and call them rips..

Even then sell poop in a jar to younger guys because they heard about rips too...It's the internet which killed the market..

you're right the market is full of fakes and scammers but this guys are not the hgh factories. the hgh factories have interest to sell IU's and i can't give exact figures because i don't have them by hand, but the manufacturing of somatropin bulk raw material from e.coli seeds costs around 5-8% of the final product cost (vials). the rest to 30% is the glass vials, stoppers, washing, sterilizing, filling and freeze drying and the absorption of the building, technology and machinery cost. what i'm saying is that once one can make 95% purity hgh, it's highly highly likely for them to prefer making good dosage products because it makes no financial sense to cut down the dosage. the ones who make shit products are the one that didn't spend the money for the machinery and technology.

[EasyDoesIt]

i notice within the first 2 days - awesome sleep and awesome dreams!

Maybe i'm different, but i never had any awesome dreams, LOL-I wish i did tho. I have never noticed those symptoms in two days. The sleep comes better, but not that quick for me. Maybe because i am a bit older than most here notice a more youthful skin, hair grows very fast. Stay leaner and muscle maturity and density hangs in there better when your older. I say older being 58. My use of it is long term as long as i can pay for it on an anti-aging basis. I can win bets all day on my age, but it's not just because of HGH. I have been working out most of my life. I never really started taking anything till in my early fifties. So my workout ethic has been there without the help. Too many young guys today can not work out without taking something, as they do not get the rapid results. Example: My schedule has been terrible for awhile now, working all through nite and training people during the day. I am getting 2-3 lame workouts per week in. I am staying cosmetically very good. People think i'm training my ass off. I feel crappy due to lack of sleep, but the hgh is very forgiving on weak diet and training regimen. Trust me i will say again because i have taken the various chinese brands and when you are on the real deal, there is no QUESTION it is real. I quit taking hgh for a year-plus because after the last batch of Jin Junk, i figured until i get real pharm grade, no more HGH. This is why i state if you can't get real, just quit till you can, but don't expect the junk to turn real because of your needs. That's what the sellers are looking for. I recently ran into a "salesman" for lack of a better word and he was telling me about his HGH at 180.00 a kit. I looked him in the eye and told him all of your stuff is junk! Every bit of it and i told the guy he is buying from the same thing. All your crap is fake and i will tell everyone buying from you, your HGH is Fake. He looked like he saw a ghost, because i also told him about side effects which i am sure he has already experienced. Told him look at me and look at you and your 20 years younger and doing 5 times more shit! The guys in the gym taking this crap are taking 8 ius a day. The mentality is very small, because they hear pro's take that much. Except the pro's are getting real products and taking more. It's a great endorsement, so and so takes the generics, he buys from me. Except what he buys from that guy are not the generics , he is buying real at a deal and being used as an endorsement for it. Or the salesman is just flat out lying.

[marcus300]

you're right the market is full of fakes and scammers but this guys are not the hgh factories. the hgh factories have interest to sell IU's and i can't give exact figures because i don't have them by hand, but the manufacturing of somatropin bulk raw material from e.coli seeds costs around 5-8% of the final product cost (vials). the rest to 30% is the glass vials, stoppers, washing, sterilizing, filling and freeze drying and the absorption of the building, technology and machinery cost. what i'm saying is that once one can make 95% purity hgh, it's highly highly likely for them to prefer making good dosage products because it makes no financial sense to cut down the dosage. the ones who make shit products are the one that didn't spend the money for the machinery and technology.

Don't agree at all. Ankbio are a factory what sold fakes and underdosed hgh and it wasn't no middle man. It was direct to the factory and infact they opened a fake site selling hgh which they advertised on their site as a site what sells fakes and they have nothing to do with their factory. The only reason why they started to sell fakes again was for more profit otherwise they would carry on selling real hgh. The ugl or generic companies don't produce hgh they only interested in money and if these licenced labs like ankbio will sell fakes then the ugl sure will.

[Xtralarg]

I started this thread 2 1/2 years ago and since then people have debated the subject fiercely.

Some people have personal experiences and opinions which have been formed after years of using hgh, some have knowledge of the science which goes into making hgh and some are simply here to learn.

It is a fact that the human brain wants to believe whatever is best for the individual, the old 'it'll never happen to me' syndrome. However, there is no smoke without fire. The answer is simple, don't believe any hype or anyone trying to convince you by blinding you with science, it's all propaganda. The stuff coming out of china is sh1t (except possibly the jins available via the Ukraine). We are taking about china FFS! The days of getting HGH from that place are over. They are laughing at the rest of the world, don't let them laugh at you.

[EasyDoesIt]

Don't agree at all. Ankbio are a factory what sold fakes and underdosed hgh and it wasn't no middle man. It was direct to the factory and infact they opened a fake site selling hgh which they advertised on their site as a site what sells fakes and they have nothing to do with their factory. The only reason why they started to sell fakes again was for more profit otherwise they would carry on selling real hgh. The ugl or generic companies don't produce hgh they only interested in money and if these licenced labs like ankbio will sell fakes then the ugl sure will.

Yes i believe that also, the same with the Jintropin site that has authentication labels etc. Jintropin is not about to let some other company continue to sell fakes without taking action. It's a site run by them and it keeps the junk away from the real. iN china they would probably kill them for doing that. These companies just took a look at the black market and went in.

[EasyDoesIt]

I started this thread 2 1/2 years ago and since then people have debated the subject fiercely.

Some people have personal experiences and opinions which have been formed after years of using hgh, some have knowledge of the science which goes into making hgh and some are simply here to learn.

It is a fact that the human brain wants to believe whatever is best for the individual, the old 'it'll never happen to me' syndrome. However, there is no smoke without fire. The answer is simple, don't believe any hype or anyone trying to convince you by blinding you with science, it's all propaganda. The stuff coming out of china is sh1t (except possibly the jins available via the Ukraine). We are taking about china FFS! The days of getting HGH from that place are over. They are laughing at the rest of the world, don't let them laugh at you.

Well stated!

[Angel of death]

This thread actually makes the internet a better place. So much good info and different views of things in here...you compare this to a thread over at professional muscle where a guys bragging about how he has severe bloating on riptropin and it must be the most potent stuff out there. its unfortunate that both will come up in a search engine just the same...

[Edwin23q]

This thread actually makes the internet a better place. So much good info and different views of things in here...you compare this to a thread over at professional muscle where a guys bragging about how he has severe bloating on riptropin and it must be the most potent stuff out there. its unfortunate that both will come up in a search engine just the same...

Yep agree 100%.

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[likelifting]

I don't know anyone who has been hosptialized due to fake growth that has harmed them. I don't know of anyone that has a serious medical condition due to fake growth. This thread makes it sound very rampant, but I dont know of anyone that inected fake growth and ended up doing serious harm to themselves because of it.

I'm sure couterfeited growth is everywhere, but harmful? Maybe, I just haven't heard of anyone being harmed yet.

[BlInDsIdE]

I started this thread 2 1/2 years ago and since then people have debated the subject fiercely.

Some people have personal experiences and opinions which have been formed after years of using hgh, some have knowledge of the science which goes into making hgh and some are simply here to learn.

It is a fact that the human brain wants to believe whatever is best for the individual, the old 'it'll never happen to me' syndrome. However, there is no smoke without fire. The answer is simple, don't believe any hype or anyone trying to convince you by blinding you with science, it's all propaganda. The stuff coming out of china is sh1t (except possibly the jins available via the Ukraine). We are taking about china FFS! The days of getting HGH from that place are over. They are laughing at the rest of the world, don't let them laugh at you.

IMO this is THE most important/informative thread on the current state of the HGH market on any board- thanks for creating it Xtra and for all those knowledgeable members that have taken so much time and energy to contribute their knowledge and experiences.

[Edwin23q]

I don't know anyone who has been hosptialized due to fake growth that has harmed them. I don't know of anyone that has a serious medical condition due to fake growth. This thread makes it sound very rampant, but I dont know of anyone that inected fake growth and ended up doing serious harm to themselves because of it.

I'm sure couterfeited growth is everywhere, but harmful? Maybe, I just haven't heard of anyone being harmed yet.

I know what your saying but tell me this;
You come across a stranger on the street that tells you here is some white powder, pay me $xxxx for it, mix it with water and inject yourself every day with it for the next 3 months and you'll lose weight, gain muscle and look and feel younger and healthier.

What would your answer be?
Buying from unknown sources if in person or over the Internet is exactly the same scenario.

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[EasyDoesIt]

I don't know anyone who has been hosptialized due to fake growth that has harmed them. I don't know of anyone that has a serious medical condition due to fake growth. This thread makes it sound very rampant, but I dont know of anyone that inected fake growth and ended up doing serious harm to themselves because of it.

I'm sure couterfeited growth is everywhere, but harmful? Maybe, I just haven't heard of anyone being harmed yet.

No I have not either, but it doesn't mean it has not happened or will not happen. Many people are not always ready to start selling themselves out as to buying HGH without a script. Especially if they are into other illegal activities, but that is not the point. Here are two links posted earlier in this thread by Sheven. The first one is regarding chinese poisoning there own people.

http://offbeatchina.com/from-waste-l...posed-in-hebei


The one below is hgh hydrocortisone and prednisone being passed off as HGH. Prednisone is a very powerful drug that will in fact destroy your bones after prolonged use. Prolonged could be 4-5 yrs. I would not take injecting products that you are not 100% sure of to lightly, but that's your choice, many people here would like to know that information. They can decide themselves wether or not to take the risk.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...3#.UO96q4njkXQ

[Xtralarg]

I don't know anyone who has been hosptialized due to fake growth that has harmed them. I don't know of anyone that has a serious medical condition due to fake growth. This thread makes it sound very rampant, but I dont know of anyone that inected fake growth and ended up doing serious harm to themselves because of it.

I'm sure couterfeited growth is everywhere, but harmful? Maybe, I just haven't heard of anyone being harmed yet.

My personal experience with fake hgh.

Severe water retention, in excess of 30 lbs.
Systolic BP in excess of 200, with a resting pulse of >100, this is life threatening
Severe estrogen rebound.

Now you know someone who was hospitalised with a serious medical condition.

[Edwin23q]

My personal experience with fake hgh.

Severe water retention, in excess of 30 lbs.
Systolic BP in excess of 200, with a resting pulse of >100, this is life threatening
Severe estrogen rebound.

Now you know someone who was hospitalised with a serious medical condition.

How many IU's were you taking and what else were you using at the time.
I think this is critical info for everyone else reading this so your honesty is appreciated.

Thanks

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[Sheven]

Don't agree at all. Ankbio are a factory what sold fakes and underdosed hgh and it wasn't no middle man. It was direct to the factory and infact they opened a fake site selling hgh which they advertised on their site as a site what sells fakes and they have nothing to do with their factory. The only reason why they started to sell fakes again was for more profit otherwise they would carry on selling real hgh. The ugl or generic companies don't produce hgh they only interested in money and if these licenced labs like ankbio will sell fakes then the ugl sure will.

The ankiebio story is different, i know their export dep. and they do that by themselves, its like a rouge operation inside the factory itself. Its done by the few people that export business and ever since this kind of business doesn't even come on the companies balancesheets since is illegal even in china (you can't export RX medicine that is not registered in other country neither have any import license on the behalf of the client) the export few girls and a guy started selling on the b2b websites. If you actually meet the company managers you'll see they aren't even able to provide you with this kind of service and they always need the license and the paperwork in order to sell this stuff, in comparison with the internet-team that sells to anyone. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the scheme is going up to the managers but i've seen export departments act completely independent from the factory business way many times in China. And since GenSci never did this kind of operation and the companies are practically identical, i'd say the problem here is the export department. Thus the conclusion that you can't trust chinese companies, no doubt.

[Xtralarg]

I wasn't taking any ammount of iu's because is wasn't hgh! It's pointless if I say I was using what I thought was 4,6,8 or any figure because the ammount of anti-diuretic and whatever else contained in the vial was probably unique to that batch and/or brand at the time, these operations are not exactly regulated are they!

I've taken this 'hgh' both on and off an aas cycle with the same catastrophic results! My cycles at the time were probably pharm grade test only, and I would of been on about 1000mg pw along with my usual AI.

I hope this helps.

[Sgt. Hartman]

I don't know anyone who has been hosptialized due to fake growth that has harmed them. I don't know of anyone that has a serious medical condition due to fake growth. This thread makes it sound very rampant, but I dont know of anyone that inected fake growth and ended up doing serious harm to themselves because of it.

I'm sure couterfeited growth is everywhere, but harmful? Maybe, I just haven't heard of anyone being harmed yet.

So because you don't know anyone who's been hospitalized or harmed from bunk GH that means it hasn't happened?

There's been many members here (including myself) as well as a couple upper level staff who've had serious health issues from it - just because you haven't heard about it doesn't mean it didn't happen. When the old kigs were going around lots of guys had issues similar to xtralarg.

[marcus300]

The ankiebio story is different, i know their export dep. and they do that by themselves, its like a rouge operation inside the factory itself. Its done by the few people that export business and ever since this kind of business doesn't even come on the companies balancesheets since is illegal even in china (you can't export RX medicine that is not registered in other country neither have any import license on the behalf of the client) the export few girls and a guy started selling on the b2b websites. If you actually meet the company managers you'll see they aren't even able to provide you with this kind of service and they always need the license and the paperwork in order to sell this stuff, in comparison with the internet-team that sells to anyone. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the scheme is going up to the managers but i've seen export departments act completely independent from the factory business way many times in China. And since GenSci never did this kind of operation and the companies are practically identical, i'd say the problem here is the export department. Thus the conclusion that you can't trust chinese companies, no doubt.

Exactly that story is different just like the rest. The story is always different.
They can't be trusted .

[marcus300]

The ankiebio story is different, i know their export dep. and they do that by themselves, its like a rouge operation inside the factory itself. Its done by the few people that export business and ever since this kind of business doesn't even come on the companies balancesheets since is illegal even in china (you can't export RX medicine that is not registered in other country neither have any import license on the behalf of the client) the export few girls and a guy started selling on the b2b websites. If you actually meet the company managers you'll see they aren't even able to provide you with this kind of service and they always need the license and the paperwork in order to sell this stuff, in comparison with the internet-team that sells to anyone. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the scheme is going up to the managers but i've seen export departments act completely independent from the factory business way many times in China. And since GenSci never did this kind of operation and the companies are practically identical, i'd say the problem here is the export department. Thus the conclusion that you can't trust chinese companies, no doubt.

Exactly that story is different just like the rest. The story is always different.
They can't be trusted .

[marcus300]

I wasn't taking any ammount of iu's because is wasn't hgh! It's pointless if I say I was using what I thought was 4,6,8 or any figure because the ammount of anti-diuretic and whatever else contained in the vial was probably unique to that batch and/or brand at the time, these operations are not exactly regulated are they!

I've taken this 'hgh' both on and off an aas cycle with the same catastrophic results! My cycles at the time were probably pharm grade test only, and I would of been on about 1000mg pw along with my usual AI.

I hope this helps.

I remember it well

[Xtralarg]

I remember it well

Don't even think about it!

[cyounger100]

My personal experience with fake hgh.

Severe water retention, in excess of 30 lbs.
Systolic BP in excess of 200, with a resting pulse of >100, this is life threatening
Severe estrogen rebound.

Now you know someone who was hospitalised with a serious medical condition.

same exact thing minus the bp problem happened too me on rips stuff is such trash and dangerous and i wasnt running anything else at times

[calstate23]

How about we just put it this way.......Let's just say the Chinese were making TOP QUALITY HGH....

And even if they were, like I said earlier, the internet, the market, and even down to the local Joe Blow at your gym will destroy the credibility and consistency of getting that high quality product...Scammers will over take the internet sites, ads and dealers will be blowing up the forums, and even the local gym rat will take advantage of these so called great "brands" and make some labels claiming it's x, y, or z....You also have exporting which I said earlier which makes an issue as well..

And this is the scenario IF they were making top quality product...Bottom line goes to show no point in using it...

[likelifting]

So because you don't know anyone who's been hospitalized or harmed from bunk GH that means it hasn't happened?

There's been many members here (including myself) as well as a couple upper level staff who've had serious health issues from it - just because you haven't heard about it doesn't mean it didn't happen. When the old kigs were going around lots of guys had issues similar to xtralarg.

Did I say that? No.

Other than this thread, I've never heard anyone talking about buying what they thought was growth and ended up in the hospital or had a serious medical condition because of it. Thats what I said. I'm not as experienced as most of you, but I have been around the gym for decades.

I was running what I thought was growth, but because of this thread I stopped them. So hopefully peeps won't get all pissy about my post because I don't know anyone who had these issues. I heeded the warning of this thread and stopped my kigs.

Maybe its something that people don't want to talk about in person. Maybe its something that is easier to admit anonymously on a message board as opposed to walking up to your buddy and saying "Hey check this out. Check out how stupid I am. I bought this stuff and injected it not knowing for sure what it was." <-- I trust my source, but basically thats what I did with the kigs. He still says they're legit, but he could be in the dark too.

Hope that clarifies my post.

[Sgt. Hartman]

Maybe its something that people don't want to talk about in person. Maybe its something that is easier to admit anonymously on a message board as opposed to walking up to your buddy and saying "Hey check this out. Check out how stupid I am. I bought this stuff and injected it not knowing for sure what it was."

Exactly. It's embarrassing to admit to injecting something dangerous or harmful for no good reason. Especially when the reason for injecting xyz chemical instead of real GH was to save money.

Hope that clarifies my post.

Yep.

[Angel of death]

I'll go ahead and come out fully with my experience here. Before I recently got some real stuff, I was on what I believe to be fake blue tops and riptropin. I think BOTH had a negative effect on my body. The rips raised my blood pressure and resting heartbeat, and gave me insane water retention. I stopped those a little before the blue tops. The blues messed with my joints real bad, my knees are still recovering, they also gave me insane anxiety for a while that even a high dose of benzos couldn't compete with. I had a few sleepless nights just praying I didn't mess myself up beyond repair. Thank god slowly but surely the symptoms went away and I'm almost 100% now, probably with the help of real hgh.

I will NEVER make this mistake again, and the messed up part about these blue tops was at first I was sleeping great and that faded away to insomnia, so they're doing their very best to get you hooked on these chemicals and mimic the effects of hgh.

[marcus300]

I'll go ahead and come out fully with my experience here. Before I recently got some real stuff, I was on what I believe to be fake blue tops and riptropin. I think BOTH had a negative effect on my body. The rips raised my blood pressure and resting heartbeat, and gave me insane water retention. I stopped those a little before the blue tops. The blues messed with my joints real bad, my knees are still recovering, they also gave me insane anxiety for a while that even a high dose of benzos couldn't compete with. I had a few sleepless nights just praying I didn't mess myself up beyond repair. Thank god slowly but surely the symptoms went away and I'm almost 100% now, probably with the help of real hgh.

I will NEVER make this mistake again, and the messed up part about these blue tops was at first I was sleeping great and that faded away to insomnia, so they're doing their very best to get you hooked on these chemicals and mimic the effects of hgh.

Thanks for the feedback, just strengthens the case of what most of us are saying about the whole generic market. Some guys actually think these sides are gains that's the sad part or laughable...